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Archive 2013 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?

  
 
Altmanator
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


I am looking to start a digital photo program at the boarding school I work at and need a little advice on which cameras to acquire. We will need 5 of them.

The variable that throws a wrench in things is that we have done film making in the past with camcorders that take tapes but next year may look to start doing digital film making. The conundrum is whether to buy the DSLRs with video capability now, or just focus on stills

My first impulse would be get 5 used 40Ds. I've owned one and found them to be just awesome workhorse cameras that are durable. However a T3i would give us video capabilities at somewhere around the same price point. To start we'd be doing nifty fifty's for all unless there's a better option in that price range.

So, 40Ds and worry about bodies for video down the road (wouldn't necessarily be bad to have separate bodies for film and stills) or T3is and take care of it all up front.

Or...any other solutions. Ideally our budget would be around $2000-$2500



Nov 20, 2013 at 04:20 PM
Kenneth Ho
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Does this budget include lenses or is it only for bodies?

The 40d is older but is certainly still robust and 3rd party batteries are inexpensive and easy to come by. That said if you require video, then the 40d isn't the way to go obviously. Otherwise it's still a solid camera that can really be had for very little money these days.



Nov 20, 2013 at 04:55 PM
StillFingerz
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Your choice of the 40D is solid, great body, lots of goodies for stills, I've one and it's staying put.

However, the 50D might be a possibility, you can get Magic Lantern for it and that would give you access to 'Video'. The 50D has a better, clearer, LCD, it has most all the features of the 40D with a 3rd more pixels; 10 vs. 15mp. It's sensor does have a bit more noise, but the extra pixels do allow for a bit more cropping of image.




Nov 20, 2013 at 05:30 PM
kellyakinsart
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


I'm a High School photo teacher, and we have a variety of cameras. 6 years ago we started with 16 XTs. Most of those don't work anymore, and have been replaced through the years. We have about 8 XS's (the XSs have held up way better than the XTs), a T1i, a T2i, a 60d, and 3 T3s.

The T3s are excellent cameras, have video and cost only about $400 each right now, with a lens. It's hard to beat their value for the money. I bought 2 more for this year.

You'll probably eventually have a variety like this, but there's something to be said about having them all the same; the same batteries fit all of them and memory cards too. I have about 4 different kinds of batteries I have to charge, and 2 sizes of memory cards. We also have several telephoto zooms.

Kelly



Nov 20, 2013 at 05:39 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Looking at 60D prices now you might get them and have money left over.


Nov 20, 2013 at 07:41 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


60D's now, 70D's when you can afford them. An older crop semi-pro without video would be quite limiting, as would any Rebel that lacks manual control dials, if you wanted to efficiently teach photography and videography.


Nov 20, 2013 at 08:42 PM
scalesusa
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


I'd call the local Canon rep and see if its possible to get a deal on some refurbs. If you can get a nice discount on 60D's that would be the way to go. Obviously you'd need lenses as well.

If you have old broken slr's, Canon will take them in and discount refurb cameras thru the Canon loyalty program.



Nov 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM
rongoe
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


black friday is coming. I'd snag some T4i kits. The video is impressive (though lacks the 70D video/live view focusing advance) and the touch screen is a very nice interface. Stereo sound too (my 6D only has mono built in).

You also may want to get a mix of nifty fifties and shorty forties (refurbs of which have been under $140). 50 can be long on the croppers, and the 40 has STM for video.

I don't understand the concern about manual control dials on rebels. Rebels have manual mode and changing the settings is straightforward.



Nov 20, 2013 at 11:14 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Getting all of the same cams makes sense (or at least all Rebels or all xxDs), but getting a mix of 40's and 50's definitely might help. The 40/2.8 is definitely an improvement for both video and for FOV on crop, and while the subject isolation capabilities pale in comparison to the shifty fifty, it does render backgrounds far better. I can see the combination of both being great for highlighting different properties of what can make a photograph pleasing.

As for the manual controls- it's one thing to be able to change the aspects of exposure, and entirely another to be able to change all of them quickly with your eye to the viewfinder using dials, and being able to see the immediate result compared to the last metering measurement.

However, given the touch orientation of things these days, it's not hard to see the appeal of Canon's touch-screen. Having used it on my EOS-M, changing settings other than exposure on my 6D feels decidedly clunky, and I'm sure that high school students might be more amenable to using a touch-screen rather than trying to make changes through a viewfinder, and the T4i is a pretty good camera for that.



Nov 20, 2013 at 11:30 PM
Altmanator
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Thanks for the great feedback so far.

60Ds would be great but I think the budget may not allow for them, although budgets were made to be broken...no?

Ideally for $2500 we could have bodies and lenses. The 40 is not one I had thought of but makes a lot of sense for video as well as for it's low cost and slightly shorter focal length than the fifty 1.8. I think a couple of each would be a great start.

Unless I'm missing some great deals on 60Ds, it looks like they are going for around $650 for body only so we could barely squeeze 4 of them without going over budget by too much.

The point about manual control dials I think is a valid one. I have never used a rebel before, only XD and XXDs. Plus my hope is that XXDs would hold up against more abuse, both weather and physical. We are in Vermont and our school is very outdoor focused so these cameras would inevitably end up in some harsh weather.

I think top choice right now might be 50Ds which leaves us the option of running ML on some CF cards down the road if need be. 60Ds would be great but may be too spendy. A mix of 50 1.8s and 40 2.8s would be good to start with. Once this program has legs I think the money will come to expand it especially if we start using the DSLRs for filmmaking and not just stills.




Nov 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM
rongoe
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


on the rebels, one adjusts aperture with the dial while pressing one of the buttons with the right thumb. I forget which one, but it's not hard and doesn't require removing eye from viewfinder. Shutter speed is dial alone. Kids may prefer LV for composition anyway, making the issue even less of one.

any camera you upgrade to in future years will almost surely not use CF cards, making that part of the initial outlay of limited future use.



Nov 21, 2013 at 10:39 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Altmanator wrote:
...60Ds would be great but I think the budget may not allow for them...


I'd contact Canon USA directly and let them know what you're planning. They may be able to give you an educational discount or something since they know that students who start with Canon cameras are likely to become Canon customers in the future.



Nov 21, 2013 at 03:32 PM
Altmanator
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


BrianO wrote:
I'd contact Canon USA directly and let them know what you're planning. They may be able to give you an educational discount or something since they know that students who start with Canon cameras are likely to become Canon customers in the future.


Funny you should mention that...that same thought occurred to me earlier today and I did fill out the form for a rep to get in touch. I'm sure these kids will have a bias towards Canon as they move along in our program. I'm building customers for life! I'll even teach them how to fiercely defend Canon in online forums. Perhaps a week dedicated to pixel peeping and forum trolling so they can truly become modern DSLR users.



Nov 21, 2013 at 03:41 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Altmanator wrote:
Funny you should mention that...that same thought occurred to me earlier today and I did fill out the form for a rep to get in touch. I'm sure these kids will have a bias towards Canon as they move along in our program. I'm building customers for life! I'll even teach them how to fiercely defend Canon in online forums. Perhaps a week dedicated to pixel peeping and forum trolling so they can truly become modern DSLR users.


Definitely worth the price of admission! And I agree with your implication that such a perspective, tempered for sanity of course, might be likely to persuade a discount .


From personal experience, I'll add that my choice of Canon was entirely driven by chance- I could just have easily been on Nikon. Once invested...



Nov 21, 2013 at 03:46 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Altmanator wrote:
...Perhaps a week dedicated to pixel peeping and forum trolling so they can truly become modern DSLR users.





Nov 21, 2013 at 04:07 PM
jojosung
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


can you get your hands on a few old canon point and shoots?
do canon loyalty programes.. it gives about 15% off refurbished price for the body, and 20% off the lens..
as for the deals.. just 10 days ago you missed Canon 60D refurbished direct from canon for $450; and last weeks staples has new Canon 60D for $450.

So I say keeps your eyes open for deals.. they are out there



Nov 21, 2013 at 04:40 PM
Altmanator
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


jojosung wrote:
can you get your hands on a few old canon point and shoots?
do canon loyalty programes.. it gives about 15% off refurbished price for the body, and 20% off the lens..
as for the deals.. just 10 days ago you missed Canon 60D refurbished direct from canon for $450; and last weeks staples has new Canon 60D for $450.

So I say keeps your eyes open for deals.. they are out there


I most certainly can get my hands on old cameras. That's good to know about missing the 60D, at least it just had some inventory. Is there any way to generalize about how long Canon waits between adding inventory to items like that? Does the fact that it just went on there and was discounted at Staples mean it will be a while for another deal like that?

This sure seems like a good time of hear to be shopping for these. I also won't rule out purchasing secondhand on here. I have had nothing but good luck with the bodies and lenses I've purchased here and we don't necessarily need to be buying these with a purchase order from a commercial seller.

I'll keep my eyes open for deals on the 60D and I'm also waiting to hear back on a quote from Canon's edu sales team.

Things are shaping up!



Nov 21, 2013 at 07:24 PM
alexdi
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


Photo and video are wildly different. I would save the second for a different course. You could devote an entire semester just to Magic Lantern, never mind the rest. It'll jack the learning curve to a level you won't like.

The 40D is an excellent choice. They seem to go for about $250 and they're not likely to be as ratted-out as a 20D ($125) or 30D ($150). There's nothing the 50D adds worth anything. The Rebels don't have anywhere near the build quality and the Rebel UX isn't as adjustable. A 60D wouldn't have any advantage except video, and it's debatable whether they hold up as well as the 50D and before.

The 50/1.8 is a fine lens for students, not least because it's dirt-cheap, hard to break, and actually has a wide enough aperture range to show them the point of a DSLR. The 35/2 might be another interesting option.

Before you even move them to cameras, you might school them here:

http://camerasim.com/camera-simulator/

That'll reinforce the rudiments.




Nov 21, 2013 at 07:55 PM
Dark Slider
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


johnctharp wrote:
I could just have easily been on Nikon.


This brings up an interesting point. You should be contacting both Nikon and Canon and see who comes up with the best deal for the school. Both have good systems.



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:17 PM
Altmanator
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Which Canons for a High School Photo Program?


alexdi wrote:
Before you even move them to cameras, you might school them here:
http://camerasim.com/camera-simulator/
That'll reinforce the rudiments.


Awesome link! I had seen that a while back but had forgotten about it. They will really love that.

The photo and video will be totally separate. Photo is the immediate priority to get equipment for, but if it can also serve a dual purpose as a video camera down the road, that would be ideal. However it's not certain if video will be taught via SLRs or dedicated video cameras so investing too heavily in video features in this current batch of purchases will not be wise. The 60D seemed to strike a nice balance between rugged still camera (vs rebel series) and capable video features over the 40D and the rebel series.




Nov 21, 2013 at 08:50 PM
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