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Archive 2013 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?

  
 
Paul Mo
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


It'd be great of there was a textured ECF button near the rear AF - and what could dance around tracking your eye? A tiny red eye icon?


Nov 21, 2013 at 12:21 AM
EB-1
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


jcolwell wrote:
Eye tracking is a well-established technology. Whether it fits into a DSLR is a different matter. Also, the typical Air Force pilot is a much more disciplined "user" of optical devices than the typical photog. If you're going to fly a plane that needs eye tracking, you'll get used to working with the eye tracking, or you'll get a different job. In the military, people who don't "fit" the equipment, usually get "traded out".


The pilots aren't buying the planes as we consumers are buying the cameras.
The problem I had was that the eye needed to be well centered all the time, which just wasn't practical. Often the AF selected position was off by a square or so.

EBH




Nov 21, 2013 at 12:48 AM
amacal1
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


You know, it wouldn't have to be perfect to be helpful. What if, instead of just selecting a singular focus point, it could complement the new AF features like zones, expanded focus points, or just to help the fully auto selection be more intelligent?

I had an Elan IIe. ECF worked perfectly on that body, but I suppose it was easy since it only had 3 focus points. But I still LOVED it!!! I'd want it back in a heart beat, even if it only worked for those same 3 focus points or selected a zone. I wouldn't need it to select 1 of 19 focus points to be useful!



Nov 21, 2013 at 10:18 PM
Glenn NK
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


amacal1 wrote:
You know, it wouldn't have to be perfect to be helpful. What if, instead of just selecting a singular focus point, it could complement the new AF features like zones, expanded focus points, or just to help the fully auto selection be more intelligent?

I had an Elan IIe. ECF worked perfectly on that body, but I suppose it was easy since it only had 3 focus points. But I still LOVED it!!! I'd want it back in a heart beat, even if it only worked for those same 3 focus points or selected a zone. I wouldn't need it to
...Show more

1) Apparently the AF on the 5D and 5DII wasn't perfect either . . . we know where this story went.

2) Isn't the eye-brain system more intelligent than an algorithm? How would a camera know which eye I wanted in focus?



Nov 21, 2013 at 10:31 PM
galenapass
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


Glenn NK wrote:
2) Isn't the eye-brain system more intelligent than an algorithm? How would a camera know which eye I wanted in focus?



I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. Either that or you meant that comment as a joke? The camera is not focusing on an eye in front of the lens, the eye of the camera user and it's movement are selecting autofocus points in the camera. With the Elan II you simply looked (through the viewfinder) at what you wanted to focus on and the camera selected that point. So yes the eye-brain system is more intelligent and that is what drives the selection of the focus point in the camera. When it worked it was absolutely brilliant!



Nov 21, 2013 at 11:01 PM
amacal1
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?



Glenn NK wrote:
2) Isn't the eye-brain system more intelligent than an algorithm? How would a camera know which eye I wanted in focus?


I think you're being a bit too selective for your particular style of photography and equipment use. Maybe it would not help you achieve focus on the correct eye in a very shallow DOF portrait if the two eyes are physically close together. Maybe it would if the two were farther apart and the camera could tell which focus point is closer to the eye you were looking at, but even that may be a bit of a stretch.

That aside, I could see it being immensely helpful to a wildlife or sports photog that is trying to get a shot with several objects/people scattered throughout the frame. It could sense which side/corner of the frame the photog is concentrating on and use that information to help the zone autofocus or expanded AF point pick out the correct person/object. Does't the system already offer features that change focus points to follow objects that the system thinks are moving? Couldn't this be improved if the system also had knowledge about which "area" the photog is concentrating on?

All I was saying is that they could prevent the kind of criticism that would come if it wasn't perfect by not designing it to be perfect in the first place. If it didn't pick the perfect 1 out of 19 or 50 focus points then people would say that it sucked. If they design it to not have that capability, but merely to assist the other intelligent features of the AF, then they could limit criticism associated with it's perfection and focus on how much it helps the camera do some things better. You would still have the joystick/control wheel if you wanted to pick individual AF points just like you do now.



Nov 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM
galenapass
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


I suspect that some of us (a) have never used EFC (b) forgotten how it works (c) never had it work well or (d) combinations of the above.

When ECF IS working well, even with a limited number of focus points, someone used to this style of focusing is in combination moving the focus point to the desired location on the image in the viewfinder (by shifting the camera) and then looking at that focus point, while paying attention to the overall framing. It does take some getting used to, but, is quick and intuitive once you get the hang of it. With a limited number of focus points there may be some minor cropping needed in post but that trade off is certainly outweighed by the ease and speed by which this whole focusing process works (when it works well, with a practiced photographer). I can recall shooting a family of Big Horn sheep in Banff with my ElanII and setting one of the focus points on a young sheep in between the parents (I assume). I was close enough and the lens aperture was wide enough so that DOF played a key role in this photograph. The speed at which I was able to shift the focus point over to the center subject, look at that focus point and then by doing so nail EXACTLY what I wanted to be in focus, then trip the shutter, was much faster than I think anyone could ever hope to achieve fiddling with a joystick. I got the shot, the sheep moved away quickly and I can remember thinking it would have never happened without EFC.

Someday somebody will wake up and bring this feature back from the dead.



Nov 22, 2013 at 05:44 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


ECF worked great for/with my EOS 5. I know, only three AF points! I wish they would offer this one centerpoint in any existing gear. And imo they should be able to deliver it today, nearly 20 years later! Imo a 51 AF viefinder is worthless without working ECF. It was working amazingly great (with/for me) in "3".


Nov 22, 2013 at 05:58 PM
StillFingerz
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


galenapass wrote:
I suspect that some of us (a) have never used EFC (b) forgotten how it works (c) never had it work well or (d) combinations of the above.

When ECF IS working well, even with a limited number of focus points, someone used to this style of focusing is in combination moving the focus point to the desired location on the image in the viewfinder (by shifting the camera) and then looking at that focus point, while paying attention to the overall framing. It does take some getting used to, but, is quick and intuitive once you get the hang
...Show more

Galen, had much the same experience shooting surfing and some auto racing events. But as you state, you do have to work at getting ECF to mesh with your style of seeing; quickly, and even the EOS-3 had a bit of lag. With the advances/speed of CPUs these days you'd think it possible if not greatly improved.

But, I'm not a camera designer, let alone one for the masses...perhaps it is too expensive or the human/eye/brain connection to elusive for the many eye ability/shape of the individual. With 7 billion and counting, there could be just too many variations to design for. Canon's new dual-pixel sensor design, the 70Ds video and AF tracking features look fantastic, can Canon extend that functionality to the viewfinder...let's hope so



Nov 22, 2013 at 06:18 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


:-)

Hope?
Stilly, its just a question of sales. EFC was not sold successful enough because of big problems with plenty of photographers. I am pretty sure they (Canon) have a great working solution of ecf IN COMMON: They just keep it back for the next generation 1DX and 5D MK . 51 point AF systems are absolutely useless for any responsible shooter without ECF!



Nov 22, 2013 at 07:03 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


The 1DXII will have mind-control AF.
The 5DIV will have mind-assisted AF.
The 6DII will have mind-suggested AF.
The 7DII will say, "what"?




Nov 22, 2013 at 07:06 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


Mind suggested will give me a higher hit rate then brain controlled, I guess.


Nov 22, 2013 at 07:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Mind suggested will give me a higher hit rate then brain controlled, I guess.


If you "think" so...



Nov 22, 2013 at 07:44 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


Glenn NK wrote:
1) Apparently the AF on the 5D and 5DII wasn't perfect either . . . we know where this story went.

2) Isn't the eye-brain system more intelligent than an algorithm? How would a camera know which eye I wanted in focus?


That is not the issue in single point AF. ECF simply selects the AF point. It would not have improved the crummy 5D/5D II AF performance.

EBH



Nov 22, 2013 at 09:10 PM
Glenn NK
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


The AF on the 5D and 5DII was ragged unmercifully; and it was fixed (the old system was dropped). ECF was tried and if it was such a great success, why was it dropped?

That being said, if it worked for all photographers all the time, then it could be a huge advantage.



Nov 23, 2013 at 01:32 AM
Eddie de pooh
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


What I learned from Canon marketing in Japan is that their focus is to improve AF acuracy than implementing ECF in Digital EOS since people are demanding better focusing.


Nov 30, 2013 at 08:48 PM
Doug C
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Where is the Eye Control focus from the EOS 3?


I loved the ECF, and would love to see it come back!


Dec 01, 2013 at 02:23 AM
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