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Archive 2013 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion
  
 
michaelwatkins
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


Personally I would prefer Sony not waste time improving the A7r and instead make a 35/2 (or 35/1.8) with the RX1's rendering, or as close as possible to it.

Or a great 21, 85, ... etc. My bet is that we don't see a rapid successor to the A7(r) cameras but that they run at least a couple of years before successors show up, like the NEX-7. Instead, lenses first.



Nov 21, 2013 at 07:32 PM
jcolwell
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
I understand the love for the RX1, but carrying 2 cameras, one limited to just 35mm, makes no sense...


I often have my X100s and X Pro-1 with me. Sometimes, 6D, too. Just sayin'.

Also, the X100s weighs less than the 35/1.4L lens that I used to own.



Nov 21, 2013 at 07:33 PM
sebboh
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


carstenw wrote:
Yeah, crap lens that Nikkor (and the Contax is better):


i didn't say crap lenses i said not terribly good (and i've shot with the one you say is better). i don't see that either of these images looks any better (maybe you should have posted corner crops on the d800e) than the image phillip reeve posted with the lens you did call crap after seeing his test:



Canon_FD_35mmf2_f8_SonyA7 by Phillip Reeve, on Flickr

edit: apologies to phillip for stealing the photo.


briantho wrote:
I understand the love for the RX1, but carrying 2 cameras, one limited to just 35mm, makes no sense...


why, it doesn't take up any more space than your c/y 28/2 with adapter?

lots of people carry two cameras each with a different lens and rarely change the lenses. in all honesty, unless i'm going on a dedicated photo walk, i'll just carry one camera and no extra lenses.




Nov 21, 2013 at 07:45 PM
briantho
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


sebboh wrote:
why, it doesn't take up any more space than your c/y 28/2 with adapter?

lots of people carry two cameras each with a different lens and rarely change the lenses. in all honesty, unless i'm going on a dedicated photo walk, i'll just carry one camera and no extra lenses.



Sorry, that's an unfair comparison.

The Zeiss FE 35/2.8 is tiny, and replaces the RX1 (if you have the A7/R), and is also cheaper.



Nov 21, 2013 at 07:50 PM
sebboh
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
Sorry, that's an unfair comparison.

The Zeiss FE 35/2.8 is tiny, and replaces the RX1 (if you have the A7/R), and is also cheaper.


but it doesn't replace it because it's not as good or as fast and it makes for a bigger package since i'll usually be carrying it attached to a bigger camera. i would also use it a lot less than the rx1 because that stop means a lot.






Nov 21, 2013 at 07:57 PM
snowboarder
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


I'm in the same boat, because I already have the RX1R, I don't care about the 35mm on A7R.
I want a great 28mm and a great 50mm. Hopefully I have both, but I need to check....



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:01 PM
millsart
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


michaelwatkins wrote:
Personally I would prefer Sony not waste time improving the A7r and instead make a 35/2 (or 35/1.8) with the RX1's rendering, or as close as possible to it.

Or a great 21, 85, ... etc. My bet is that we don't see a rapid successor to the A7(r) cameras but that they run at least a couple of years before successors show up, like the NEX-7. Instead, lenses first.



Knowing Sony though we will have updated versions of the A7/A7r well before we have some nice native mount glass in focal lengths we actually want.

I mean look at the NEX line, they have like what, 12 different versions 3, 5, 5n, 3c, 5r, 6, 7 etc etc and yet still are lacking in e-mount glass

I've got a Fuji X-E2 on order simply because Fuji seems to "get it" as far as lenses go. I've got the 14/2.8, 23/1.4 and would like to purchase the 56/1.2 soon as it comes onto the market. That gives me the ideal 21/35/85 trio of fast native primes

I'd gladly go A7r but if I'm stuck with the 35/2.8 as the only native focal length option for another year or more, I should of just stuck with my Rx1 which was at least a stop faster



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:05 PM
ebrandon
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
I understand the love for the RX1, but carrying 2 cameras, one limited to just 35mm, makes no sense...


There's nothing better. I can take 90% of the pictures I want to take with a 28mm and 90mm.

So my regular set up is a Richoh GR (28mm fixed) and an interchangeable lens camera with a 90mm or 90mm equivalent on it (e.g, 6D with Voigtlander 90mm 3.5 APO, or NEX 5N with Pen f 60mm f1.5, or E-M1 with 45mm f1.8).

Never change a lens, never deal with dust, be ready for anything super quickly, play with two different toys. It's great!



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:07 PM
shelt
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


ebrandon wrote:
There's nothing better. I can take 90% of the pictures I want to take with a 28mm and 90mm.

So my regular set up is a Richoh GR (28mm fixed) and an interchangeable lens camera with a 90mm or 90mm equivalent on it (e.g, 6D with Voigtlander 90mm 3.5 APO, or NEX 5N with Pen f 60mm f1.5, or E-M1 with 45mm f1.8).

Never change a lens, never deal with dust, be ready for anything super quickly, play with two different toys. It's great!


I know what you mean about the GR -- it's tiny, and just fantastic. I take it everywhere. Perfect controls. Every time I open a file I'm impressed -- incredibly sharp to the edges wide open, great contrast, great sensor. It really is the digital equivalent of the old film GR (which I also loved...).



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:20 PM
briantho
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


However... giving praise to the mirrorless concept for being smaller and lighter vs DSLR, and then starting to carry entire CAMERAS because of minor (and I do mean really minor) advantages, is sort of strange. What if soon there is an RX1 with a 21mm, 50mm, and another with a 75mm lens?

As I said, I do see the use for great compact fixed lens cameras, but I personally couldn't justify owning both the RX1 and the A7R unless the RX1 was ALOT cheaper than it is today.

In fact I have a hard time justifying owning any of these cameras so I should just shut up now



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:22 PM
 

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millsart
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
However... giving praise to the mirrorless concept for being smaller and lighter vs DSLR, and then starting to carry entire CAMERAS because of minor (and I do mean really minor) advantages, is sort of strange. What if soon there is an RX1 with a 21mm, 50mm, and another with a 75mm lens?

As I said, I do see the use for great compact fixed lens cameras, but I personally couldn't justify owning both the RX1 and the A7R unless the RX1 was ALOT cheaper than it is today.

In fact I have a hard time justifying owning any of these cameras
...Show more


It can be kind of nice not having to change lenses and always have the right focal length/camera settings ready to go

I've taken my Sigma Merrill's all before, and while there are times when I wish they where ICL, being able to have a camera with an optimized sensor/lens combo, no issues with dust etc is pretty useful too.

Its just like when I shoot a football game. I use a 70-200 on one body, 200-400 or 400 2.8 on the other.

Easier to just grab the 2nd body when they are on the 5 yard line rather than kept swapping lens with just one body.

Same for shooting a wedding, I like 3 bodies so I don't have to tell a posed group "okay, now hold still for a minute while I switch lenses" I just grab another body on the fly and keep shooting



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:29 PM
uhoh7
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


sebboh wrote:
i didn't say crap lenses i said not terribly good (and i've shot with the one you say is better). i don't see that either of these images looks any better (maybe you should have posted corner crops on the d800e) than the image phillip reeve posted with the lens you did call crap after seeing his test:



haha, he hated the corner @ f/2 I think

I'm thinking I may, in the end, after testing, swap my 28 cron for a 35 LUX asph , and just sell all my other 35s, even the 1.2

The Lux seems to be fantastic on the A7r.

How does LUX apsh compare with 35/cron (latest) for a landscape at say 5.6 or f/8?


Edited on Nov 21, 2013 at 08:31 PM · View previous versions



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:29 PM
sebboh
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
However... giving praise to the mirrorless concept for being smaller and lighter vs DSLR, and then starting to carry entire CAMERAS because of minor (and I do mean really minor) advantages, is sort of strange. What if soon there is an RX1 with a 21mm, 50mm, and another with a 75mm lens?

As I said, I do see the use for great compact fixed lens cameras, but I personally couldn't justify owning both the RX1 and the A7R unless the RX1 was ALOT cheaper than it is today.


i suspect my rx1 was a lot cheaper than it would be today for you.

i expect the rx1 to continue to be my primary everyday camera, with the a7(r) being used when i want to play with specific lenses. unless i'm shooting wildlife i don't find 35mm to be terribly limiting.




Nov 21, 2013 at 08:30 PM
philip_pj
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


It's a remarkable freedom to have two very competent cameras in two very small bags, both looking like P&S cameras, ready to go. I wanted a longer FL RX1 version, but the a7r means I can have the RX1 for what it does well - that is everything - and an a7r set up for the other 'main alternative' of the time, be it wider or longer.

Many advantages - same menus, same everything ergo, EVF position even. A lot here might have shot with two cameras before like I did, it can be hard swapping, not any more.

That is for indoor use up to ISO 12800, and outdoor landscapes or people or just opportunities seen impromptu, no futzing for adapters/lens bags/ etc. If I never had got the RX1 I'd be very happy with the rather artistic FE 35/2.8 but it is still very dependent on that one body, which now is DSLR-like in needing a lot of action around usage, being an ILC.

The RX1 will take some shots the 35/2.8 cannot, and I expect it to be much better in the corners, the thing has unbelievable microcontrast.




Nov 21, 2013 at 08:45 PM
philip_pj
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho, the cost argument needs some perspective. (And pls don't shut up ;-))

Right now, an RX1 can be had for cheap, cheap as in compared with many ZE/F lens or high end C/N lens, and it's smaller than most of them. An a7 is all of $1700, and lenses that work well on it are cheap, as Phillip has so well demonstrated..your problem is where you live!

I read the new Nikon FX goes for the equivalent of over $4000 in Sweden. Do you know any smugglers who can land a boat in those great harbours?

Sony will not do more RX1s now, I feel, too many other irons in the fire and users baying for FE wide angles, fast primes etc. A mount etc.



Nov 21, 2013 at 08:59 PM
briantho
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


philip_pj wrote:
briantho, the cost argument needs some perspective. (And pls don't shut up ;-))

Right now, an RX1 can be had for cheap, cheap as in compared with many ZE/F lens or high end C/N lens, and it's smaller than most of them. An a7 is all of $1700, and lenses that work well on it are cheap, as Phillip has so well demonstrated..your problem is where you live!

I read the new Nikon FX goes for the equivalent of over $4000 in Sweden. Do you know any smugglers who can land a boat in those great harbours?

Sony will not do
...Show more

Smugglers? Sometimes russian nuclear submarines land on our shores, but I don't think they stock Sony cameras, only vodka

Actually I've placed an order for the A7R, and if the RX1 comes down to a certain price point, I'll be forced to buy one of those too.



Nov 21, 2013 at 09:06 PM
shelt
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion




haha, he hated the corner @ f/2 I think

I'm thinking I may, in the end, after testing, swap my 28 cron for a 35 LUX asph , and just sell all my other 35s, even the 1.2

The Lux seems to be fantastic on the A7r.

How does LUX apsh compare with 35/cron (latest) for a landscape at say 5.6 or f/8?


I think the 35 Lux ASPH will be good, however it will definitely need cornerfix/flat-field in many situations (skies, snow, etc). There is a noticeable amount of color shift at larger apertures, and a lot of vignetting. You don't really notice it much in the non-landscape shots I've seen...


Tim Ashley a7r & 35 Lux ASPH



Nov 21, 2013 at 09:35 PM
Phillip Reeve
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


briantho wrote:
Smugglers? Sometimes russian nuclear submarines land on our shores, but I don't think they stock Sony cameras, only vodka

Actually I've placed an order for the A7R, and if the RX1 comes down to a certain price point, I'll be forced to buy one of those too.

Alcohol is even more expensive than cameras in Sweden, isn't it?

Sony Germany runs a program for students with a 20% rebate so I paid "only" 1200 Euros which ist okay for a FF camera I guess.
Myabe there is a similar program in Sweden one of your daughters feels she really needs that Sony A7?



Nov 21, 2013 at 09:45 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


sebboh wrote:
i didn't say crap lenses i said not terribly good (and i've shot with the one you say is better).


Not terribly good is really not generous either. The Nikkor 35/2.8 has delivered really nice images for me.

i don't see that either of these images looks any better (maybe you should have posted corner crops on the d800e) than the image phillip reeve posted with the lens you did call crap after seeing his test:

Selective quoting. I said crap at that distance, and encouraged him to do shots at medium and far distances.



Nov 21, 2013 at 09:52 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Images and Discussion


uhoh7 wrote:
How does LUX apsh compare with 35/cron (latest) for a landscape at say 5.6 or f/8?


Whew! The 28 Cron is an awesome lens, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone sell it. If it doesn't work on the A7/A7R I could understand it, but Sony will probably have the A7R-II out in six months, while they only add one lens to the lineup

Having said that, I owned both the 35 Lux ASPH and 35 Cron ASPH at one point, and slightly preferred both rendering and boke of the Lux, while the Cron was a tad sharper. I had an M8, so I am not certain if that comparison holds up on FF. Note that the Lux is an older design, so it probably has more curvature of field than the Cron. The Cron is a sweet little lens, very nice, but I think the RX1 is probably better for many things, especially anything where sharpness across the field is important, i.e. technical matter.

There is a comparison here, which was done on my M8:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/29964-35-lux-asph-vs-35-cron.html


Edited on Nov 21, 2013 at 10:01 PM · View previous versions



Nov 21, 2013 at 09:59 PM
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