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Canon hate?
  
 
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · Canon hate?


deepbluejh wrote:
I came over to Fred Miranda forums in 2005 (to buy a 1DII for $3000, but that's another story). At the time I had been on DP Review and was getting most of my photo information from that forum. Over the years I drifted away from DP Review and spent nearly all of my photo forum time over here instead.

Put bluntly, I don't really care for the crowd over there. It's nothing personal against anybody there, I just feel like the mindset there isn't what I'd like to be around on a daily basis.

Now with that said... anyone who has
...Show more

It's a matter of what standards you have and what your needs are and, in the case of professionals, the needs of your clients. When you buy into a brand of dSLRs, that's often a five-figure investment and then to see a system fail to meet your needs or to become so maligned clients would choose those with other systems is deeply frustrating and costly.

When I was shooting 135 I loved it until I saw how grainy large prints were. I moved up to 120 but wanted to shoot landscapes with perspective correction and so I switched to 4x5. It's not perfect and it is expensive (so I mostly shoot 6x12), but finally I found a system that did what I needed and the sense of empowerment you get from feeling like your gear is at the level you need to produce results that match your vision is great.

This is just a hobby so my needs are whatever I feel like they should be, and are not dictated by clients, but it's frustrating being held back by gear, especially for those who shoot at a high level (not me, I'm a beginner) and whose standards are exacting. I use a lot of Canon gear, a 5D Mark III for stills and a C100 for video, and I love how ergonomically strong and reliable this gear is, plus I dig some of Canon's lenses a lot. However, my needs are not that high end and my eye not that exacting. If I were a better photographer/videographer, I would surely demand higher end gear and grow frustrated with my prosumer gear (that doesn't even come close in terms of IQ to the cheaper D800 and Black Magic Cinema Camera from what I'm told). When that day hopefully comes, I'm sure I'll be frustrated having to re-invest, and I would like more highlight latitude and less shadow noise on both these cameras to be perfectly honest.

I remember trying out a tilt/shift lens and realizing it didn't cut it next to 4x5 and the frustrating experience that was for me. I'm sure every shot those guys on dpreview take with their technologically lagging Canon gear gives them a similar, somewhat infuriating experience. If, like me, you're not up to that level yet, just be glad you're still happy with your gear! (As I am, I love both my Canon cameras, minor flaws aside.)

Either that or they're just shooting test charts and measure their worth in gear rather than results. But that would seem stupid.



Nov 20, 2013 at 01:58 AM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · Canon hate?


deepbluejh wrote:
I came over to Fred Miranda forums in 2005 (to buy a 1DII for $3000, but that's another story). At the time I had been on DP Review and was getting most of my photo information from that forum. Over the years I drifted away from DP Review and spent nearly all of my photo forum time over here instead.

Put bluntly, I don't really care for the crowd over there. It's nothing personal against anybody there, I just feel like the mindset there isn't what I'd like to be around on a daily basis.

Now with that said... anyone who has
...Show more

+1

I agree with most things you write in your post. But if you belive here is Canon hate. Then look at the threads about Adobe. That's what I call hate



Nov 24, 2013 at 08:13 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · Canon hate?


First: This is a Canon gear board. People use it to complain like they do to tell they are happy. Usually complains come more often then positive news. If I am happy with my gear and MY RESULTS I go out and shoot and post my pictures in different boards to talk about photography.

As far I remember I mentioned a couple of times how happy I am with what tools Canon delivers for my work. As a result I became a well known "fanboy".

I started to shoot 36 years ago and compared to what we could get in the past, complaining about the tools we get offered today at lowest prices is like feeling like a poor man while breathing gold. No matter, wich brand you use.



Nov 24, 2013 at 02:54 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · Canon hate?


As for sports and pro and autofocus. Many of us shot NFL, F1 racing, NBA, MLB, World Cup skiing as well as College and Olympic events with manual focus lenses and bodies with much slower frame rates than we have now.

We learned to focus on moving competitors. We learned to zone focus and get the action moving right into sharp focus. We learned timing so we hit the shutter button at peak action.

We often did it one frame at a time and without motor drives. We did it with motor drives of 3-5 frames per second.

It is still the photographer even with the new gear. Learn your equipment and the subject you are photographing if you want better results.

Canon, Nikon, a twin lens Rollei or a hand held 4x5 speed graphic, it you can't get the shot it is seldom the fault of the equipment.



Nov 24, 2013 at 04:00 PM
goosemang
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · Canon hate?


my canon stuff gets the damned shot. which is more than I can say for any of this mirrorless or m4/3 stuff I've tried.

love the smaller size, love the IQ from some systems (Fuji), but none are reliable enough to get the damned shot when things are changing quickly, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm spot tracking eyeballs at f/1.4 in friggin tungsten light and getting the shots. someone give me a call when anybody else besides maybe Nikon can handle this kind of stuff.

buy mirrorless for fun. buy canon to get the damned shots.



Nov 24, 2013 at 04:23 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · Canon hate?


Daniel Smith wrote:
As for sports and pro and autofocus. Many of us shot NFL, F1 racing, NBA, MLB, World Cup skiing as well as College and Olympic events with manual focus lenses and bodies with much slower frame rates than we have now.

We learned to focus on moving competitors. We learned to zone focus and get the action moving right into sharp focus. We learned timing so we hit the shutter button at peak action.

We often did it one frame at a time and without motor drives. We did it with motor drives of 3-5 frames per second.

It is still the
...Show more

+10

Even if there is a limitation of the gear, it is the photographers fault not knowing his equipments capabilities. One of (imo) my best shots I ever did was done whithin half of a second from seeing the motiv, raising the camera, composing the frame, setting the focus and releasing the shutter.
Exposure was preset, Focusing was manual (of course). It was done automatically while composing and before releasing the shutter within a split second. When I did the shot I was not hoping, the camera kept the moment. I just knew WE did.



Nov 24, 2013 at 04:30 PM
Mikael Risedal
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · Canon hate?


Hate and Hate

Canon was pretty cocky for a while when they led the cmos development, and each time they introduced a camera it had higher resolution and one or two steps better properties according to Canon.
If we should count and believe Canon every time they would have at least 25 stops DR today.
Canon bragged about their high resolution cameras and also explained the benefits of high resolution, today they are behind in sensor developments and suddenly high resolution or DR are not so important as it was before.
My opinion is that Canon's credibility has fallen over the years and since they have falling behind Sony, Toshiba, Aptina, Panasonic and not have renew their sensor lines and improved their sensor technology



Nov 24, 2013 at 04:52 PM
asiafish
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · Canon hate?


goosemang wrote:
my canon stuff gets the damned shot. which is more than I can say for any of this mirrorless or m4/3 stuff I've tried.

love the smaller size, love the IQ from some systems (Fuji), but none are reliable enough to get the damned shot when things are changing quickly, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm spot tracking eyeballs at f/1.4 in friggin tungsten light and getting the shots. someone give me a call when anybody else besides maybe Nikon can handle this kind of stuff.

buy mirrorless for fun. buy canon to get the damned shots.


That is what its all about, the right tool for the job. Canon (6D) is currently best when it comes to low-light autofocus. Haters (or Nikon D610 fans) complain that it has only one cross-type AF point or only eleven points in too small an area, but it is precisely that simplified system that allowed the engineers to get accurate autofocus at EV -3. There are shots that the 6D with a fast lens will get that other comparable cameras will not.

The same can be said for other systems. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, including mirror less, which won't scare away candid subjects the way a bid DSLR with a white zoom lens will.



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:16 PM
Glenn NK
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · Canon hate?


I'll toss out a few random thoughts:

1) Hate for Canon? Or could it just be bad cases of jealousy?

2) Nobody likes the consistent winner, or the guy leading the pack (anyone familiar with Formula 1 racing will recall that after a few wins, the Ferrari driver wasn't as popular as he was at first). Further, Canon is very large compared to most of the other companies, and that presents another reason to be resentful toward Canon. After thousands of years, we still use the term "David vs Goliath".

3) Most of the "hate" that I see on the forum might be called "belly-aching". A large percentage of the human population complain about very trivial problems (this seems to particularly apply to those of us with everyday things we take for granted that much of the world doesn't have - I don't have to fill in the blanks here - most of us know what I'm talking about).



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:19 PM
David Baldwin
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · Canon hate?


Well, I can't say I've seen real "hate" here on FM. But seems to me its perfectly sensible to compare the different systems because one day we might achieve one which covers all the bases. Why isn't it rational to want the AF and low cost of the 5D3, the DR and res of the A7r in one body? We all know such a body is perfectly possible.

Desiring such a body doesn't stop anyone actually taking photos now, and doesn't qualify as "hate". And such a body would satisfy about 90% of all the Canon complaints I have ever seen on FM.

Its not rocket science is it!

Am editing to say that I do wonder if all the major manufacturers are worried about the next gen of DSLRs, because if all the best tech were put in one body now with no drawbacks many of us wouldn't have to upgrade again for the next 5 years.

Edited on Nov 24, 2013 at 05:29 PM · View previous versions



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:26 PM
 

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Ralph Conway
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · Canon hate?


Two years ago I thought that 5D II is the best available camera for MY NEEDS. I only wished no banding at ISO 6.499 and above. Others wished a better AF System. About one year ago 5D III and 6D where announced. First offered the best AF System, second all and some more I asked for. The only missing gear offered is the higher MP camera, nobody asked for before Nikon introduced D800.

My opinion is, that Canon exactly DOES what customers ask for. In my further opinion in DR we are already far above what film offered photographers a decade ago.
Imo most People who cry about the limitation of 15 stops DR should do a good picture at 12 stops. Never ever I saw any picture that fascinatet me because of any higher DR. I had the same experience with more than 15 MP. Of course 36, 50 or 150 MP may look gret in a photographers hand who knows what he does may look greater. But a worse pic will remain a worse one. An excellent one wil still be excellent shot at 10MP.

Falling behind Sony, Toshiba, Aptina, etc? None of them ever offered and still does not offer a camera, I wish to use. Sony created Exmore and gave it to Nikon to make a camera out of it. Where they able to compete against Canon? Is Sony now? Does Toshiba offer a tool I can use? Or Aptina? Maybe I slept awile. But if it was because I was happy with a "looser brand". I am still happy, because YOUR winners doent have and still can not offer what I ask for. Canon listened to ME (personally) and introduced this camera one year ago. It is the cheapest FF camera with the very best reputation. Others had to reduce their Intro-price about 20 % from salesstart to let the camera die and bring a more expensive follow up within the first year. Anybody unhappy with 5D III or 6D or 1DX? Any moarning here about theses cameras? I guess Canon did a much better job than itīs competition.

Edited on Nov 24, 2013 at 05:39 PM · View previous versions



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:28 PM
ggreene
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · Canon hate?


Mikael Risedal wrote:
My opinion is that Canon's credibility has fallen over the years and since they have falling behind Sony, Toshiba, Aptina, Panasonic and not have renew their sensor lines and improved their sensor technology


If Canon was strictly a sensor company I think they would be more concerned but they are far more diversified then that and they are still advancing along a whole host of other products.

In the mean time, my Canon gear still shows a remarkable progression in advances (10D -> 1D2 -> 1D4 -> 1DX) for a company sitting on it's hands.



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:30 PM
David Baldwin
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · Canon hate?


"My opinion is, that Canon exactly DOES what customers ask for. In my further opinion in DR we are already far above what film offered photographers a decade ago"

Well, if you are a landscape photographer you might not be happy to layer mask bright skies and darker foregrounds from separate RAW files so often. Having to work around DR issues can be a drag for many FMers.

If in the real world Nikon and Sony landscapers have a better DR in one file then I want that too. We all need different things from our kit. I couldn't care less about AF for instance, but DR and freedom from banding would definitely float my canoe. Speaking as a 5D2 owner of course.



Nov 24, 2013 at 05:33 PM
Mikael Risedal
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · Canon hate?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Two years ago I thought that 5D II is the best available camera for MY NEEDS. I only wished no banding at ISO 6.499 and above. Others wished a better AF System. About one year ago 5D III and 6D where announced. First offered the best AF System, second all and some more I asked for. The only missing gear offered is the higher MP camera, nobody asked for before Nikon introduced D800.

My opinion is, that Canon exactly DOES what customers ask for. In my further opinion in DR we are already far above what film offered photographers a
...Show more


well , if you have both Nikon and Canon today then you know what can be done with a camera with great DR, exposure wise and the benefits of a shorter exposure time with better results, and a result with no banding.
I think many of you do not know what 14 stops DR means, what you can do exposure wise.
And DR wise, we who use Nikon also are now near negative film and the exposure latitude



Nov 24, 2013 at 06:28 PM
Mikael Risedal
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · Canon hate?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Two years ago I thought that 5D II is the best available camera for MY NEEDS. I only wished no banding at ISO 6.499 and above. Others wished a better AF System. About one year ago 5D III and 6D where announced. First offered the best AF System, second all and some more I asked for. The only missing gear offered is the higher MP camera, nobody asked for before Nikon introduced D800.

My opinion is, that Canon exactly DOES what customers ask for. In my further opinion in DR we are already far above what film offered photographers a
...Show more

a camera you not wish to use? are you some kind benchmark/yardstick?
nice then that we all are different, and yes I want a Canon camera with great DR and high resolution to all my L lenses, Canon has none as d800 or better

And I think this summarize the question about Canon
Canon was pretty cocky for some years when they led the cmos development, and each time they introduced a camera it had higher resolution and one or two steps better properties according to Canon.
If we should count and believe Canon every time they would have at least 25 stops DR today.




Nov 24, 2013 at 06:37 PM
asiafish
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · Canon hate?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Two years ago I thought that 5D II is the best available camera for MY NEEDS. I only wished no banding at ISO 6.499 and above. Others wished a better AF System. About one year ago 5D III and 6D where announced. First offered the best AF System, second all and some more I asked for. The only missing gear offered is the higher MP camera, nobody asked for before Nikon introduced D800.

My opinion is, that Canon exactly DOES what customers ask for. In my further opinion in DR we are already far above what film offered photographers a
...Show more


They (Canon) got my money, and since I did not own a DSLR or any DSLR lenses when I made my purchase, they clearly must be doing something right.



Nov 25, 2013 at 03:30 AM
Gunzorro
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · Canon hate?


Mikael Risedal wrote:
a camera you not wish to use? are you some kind benchmark/yardstick?
nice then that we all are different, and yes I want a Canon camera with great DR and high resolution to all my L lenses, Canon has none as d800 or better

And I think this summarize the question about Canon
Canon was pretty cocky for some years when they led the cmos development, and each time they introduced a camera it had higher resolution and one or two steps better properties according to Canon.
If we should count and believe Canon every time they would have at least 25 stops
...Show more

Well, I think your comments are pretty close to the gold standard of the topic of the thread.

Having shot a lot of C-41 film, I can say with confidence my Canon DSLRs, at least since mid-'00s have surpassed film for DR and resolution in the same size format.

I'm glad you are happy about your Nikon gear, and there is no denying it has several advantages, but rez and DR are not all there is to the story. That said, I won't be unhappy to see Canon equal or surpass Nikon's current strengths. Until then, I'll enjoy whichever brand I chose to use, Canon, Nikon, or other.



Nov 25, 2013 at 05:31 AM
digitalbug30d
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p.10 #18 · p.10 #18 · Canon hate?


how can one complain anyway with 50k in Canon stuff?


Nov 25, 2013 at 05:35 AM
jcolwell
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p.10 #19 · p.10 #19 · Canon hate?


Mikael Risedal wrote:
...If we should count and believe Canon every time they would have at least 25 stops DR today.





Nov 25, 2013 at 05:36 AM
digitalbug30d
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p.10 #20 · p.10 #20 · Canon hate?


galenapass wrote:
How about the wedding forum with all the wedding photogs complaining bitterly about 5DII focus issues?? That went on and on for pages. I guess none of them have/had talent or should be regarded as professionals?

It is very plain to see 'professionals' complaining about equipment, it is even plainer when someone makes up a non-existent world (e.g. those with talent do not complain) to prove whatever point they believe is true.

well they couldve stuck with the 1DS Mark2's and avoided all that,after all a pro camera for professional images..

but the 1 series were to heavy..lol



Nov 25, 2013 at 05:40 AM
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