Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8      
9
       10       11       end
  

Canon hate?
  
 
Beni
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · Canon hate?


thw2 wrote:
Sure, from the start all the way to the point when Canon stepped in to resolve the issue, he did a great job. I'm sure many folks are grateful for that. The sad part is Galbraith became overly obssessed and there was no end to his complaints after the 1D3 saga. He just went on and on and on dismissing every Canon product... and finally had to quit his job.


Your last line is the proof of the hyperbole pudding.



Nov 18, 2013 at 06:06 PM
MintMar
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · Canon hate?


jctriguy wrote:
Of course sports is a totally different story, don't think anyone would argue that point. But, it is often the case that amateurs can go to the same local spot countless times and eventually get the amazing lighting and elements in a landscape shot.


It depends. From the past discussions on the AF topic to me it seemed that "pro" and "sports" (or sportlike events) were somehow interlinked in eyes of Canon apologetes. All the blahblah about "sports cameras", "wedding cameras", "landscape cameras" was somehow supposed to overlay the fact that even "amateurs" were shooting sports and basically had two options - fork out for 1D, or live with substantially less keepers.



Nov 18, 2013 at 06:16 PM
MintMar
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · Canon hate?


Lasse Eriksson wrote:
If you are an Pro or Amateur have nothing to do with if you are using the 1D cameras or the less expensive cameras


True. But between 1D original and 5D3 there wasn't a single sub-1D digital camera from Canon carved around the EOS-3 design (regarding AF).



Nov 18, 2013 at 06:20 PM
jctriguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · Canon hate?


MintMar wrote:
It depends. From the past discussions on the AF topic to me it seemed that "pro" and "sports" (or sportlike events) were somehow interlinked in eyes of Canon apologetes. All the blahblah about "sports cameras", "wedding cameras", "landscape cameras" was somehow supposed to overlay the fact that even "amateurs" were shooting sports and basically had two options - fork out for 1D, or live with substantially less keepers.


Sorry, not totally understanding the relevance of this to your comments about 'pros' getting the shot in sports.

If you were a dedicated sport shooter and couldn't afford a current 1D camera, you could always buy a used camera from the previous generation. Had nothing to do with 'pro' vs 'amateur' it was just the level of features and the price.

There is a huge technique side to sport shooting, unique in the photography world (wildlife is similar as well). People got amazing shots with MF cameras back in the day, so I'm sure people with good technique were getting good keeper rates with 40D style bodies. I shot sports with an original Rebel and 40D until about 3 years ago. I had lots of great shots, but you had to understand how to get them since you can't just spray and pray.



Nov 18, 2013 at 06:28 PM
M Lucca
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · Canon hate?


I also see this in many other consumer goods like cars, phones, game consoles, lawnmowers, even gas brands!

If you base your photographic identity on the brand/model you purchase, then you have some real personal issues.



Nov 18, 2013 at 07:03 PM
Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · Canon hate?


Just as people photography is all about who you know, sports photography is all about knowing your sport, understanding, experience, just having a basic intuition about what could happen next. How big plays tend to unfold, what constitutes a 'money shot', it all varies from sport to sport.

Simply being able to properly position yourself before the action or the big plays, being able to foresee the likely outcomes of a setup or a play so that you are one step ahead of the action, is what good sports photographers try to do; when you have multiple photographers all shooting the same game, this is what separates the good from the mediocre.



Nov 18, 2013 at 08:48 PM
MintMar
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · Canon hate?


jctriguy wrote:
Sorry, not totally understanding the relevance of this to your comments about 'pros' getting the shot in sports.


All these "types" of camera were used as excuses as to why Canon "couldn't" put a better AF into non-1D camera. Because 1D was the "sports camera", and so on.

If you were a dedicated sport shooter and couldn't afford a current 1D camera, you could always buy a used camera from the previous generation. Had nothing to do with 'pro' vs 'amateur' it was just the level of features and the price.

And that's what I did, got 1D2N in 2009, and got bitten by 1D3 AF problems in 2011.

There is a huge technique side to sport shooting, unique in the photography world (wildlife is similar as well). People got amazing shots with MF cameras back in the day, so I'm sure people with good technique were getting good keeper rates with 40D style bodies. I shot sports with an original Rebel and 40D until about 3 years ago. I had lots of great shots, but you had to understand how to get them since you can't just spray and pray.

I fully agree, and I never use my 1D in sequential mode, unless I shoot the old cannons and muskets about to shoot. I shot my "sports" (dancing and swordfighting) first with 350D, then with 30D, I got some keepers (or more at the expense of wider DOF) but 1D made it possible for me to get much more keepers at substantially thinner DOF. While I didn't really need size, weight, sealing, rugged build and high FPS. So I was always supporting the idea of smaller and cheaper body with advanced AF, as 5D3 is now.



Nov 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Shield
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · Canon hate?


asiafish wrote:
BS, plain and simple. The equipment matters to some extent, but there is no magic sauce that differentiates amateurs from pros, be it golf, photography or anything else. The difference is consistency and honestly just career choice. So what if I have to take 3,000 images to get one worthy of a gallery and a pro can do the same in 10 shots. Its that image that matters, not how long it took to get there.

And if that outstanding image was an accident of luck, so what? Some of the most significant discoveries have been the result of accident.



I'll hop in and say I agree with both sides. I've talked to enough pro photographers and they rarely talk about limitations with gear - but at the same time, gear DOES matter. I can hand my wife my 5d3 + 70-200 II and put it in A mode and get far better than anything she'd get with a POS. Just sayin'.



Nov 19, 2013 at 03:49 PM
traveler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · Canon hate?


It is pretty pathetic that for the most part what I tend to see, as a member of many boards including the Dpreview one, that so many "think" they know something so they become knowledgeable enough only to the point of being dangerous. Over the last 15 years of my digital camera usage, I've owned, Canon and Nikon pro bodies and lenses, Sony DSLR's and Olympus DSLR's and now Mft gear. I've found merit in ALL of them. I never slammed Canon, just moved into other gear for one reason or another. I may have felt for the $$ it was delivering better IQ or a lighter carry weight without sacrificing the IQ.

Either way I think Canon continues to try to stay in the hunt. Nikon has become considerably more aggressive especially once they managed to grab some more of the DSLR turf from Canon back when the D200 came out. They haven't let up either so it's a challenge for Canon to keep pace. Now Sony has stepped up it's game and has gotten hungry. Even Olympus has nipped at the heels a bit at the smaller portable performance catagory. So there is a lot of food on the table and everyone wants their piece. I just ignore the fanboy and emotionally driven junk on the internet. There's really no point in bothering giving it any credibility anyway as most of it doesn't deal with the REAL WORLD output of these cameras but rather it's emotion driven by their ego and not their talent or ability to use the tool to extract the best results. Either way it's like they say "nothing to see here move along"



Nov 19, 2013 at 04:03 PM
PhilDrinkwater
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · Canon hate?


deepbluejh wrote:
I'm sure this exists to various degrees in nearly every camera forum, but the mindset is especially potent over at DP Review. The intensity of hatred directed at Canon (and to a lesser extent, Nikon) is just really surprising to me. My theory is that people resent the fact that these two traditional SLR brands are still "on top" of the professional photography market while seeming to innovate little relative to other up-and-comers. They just can't understand why anyone would buy some ancient dinosaur 5DII DSLR when the latest mirrorless offering looks so much better on paper.

Thoughts on this?


My honest thoughts are that it doesn't affect me in the slightest and I don't care if anyone hates Canon - it's makes me money and gives me what I need and that's all I really care about

I might try to point out something when people suggest something which I don't agree with or is blatantly false, but in reality it doesn't matter to me if they still go ahead with their previous views.



Nov 19, 2013 at 04:11 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



boingyman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · Canon hate?


Just adding some common sense to the mix. Camera gear are just tools regardless of brand. Canon doesn't make the perfect gear, but all brands have their pro's and con's. Same goes with post software. The key is knowing how to use it all to your advantage that will compliment the usage of the image, your shooting style and vision. It's not rocket science to think of a million scenarios where better gear will give you a significant advantage or vice versa, especially with specific genre's of photography. Unless you're very new, majority are not that ignorant.

Gearhead dweebs are way too vocal on the internet, regardless of their photography artistic abilities. Wasting their time on limitations of gear, or assuming the equipment is their problem, not the other more important variables that could very well help them become better photographers. Reflect back on your vision and why you choose to shoot a certain way or how you can improve it.

On the other side of the coin it's fun to talk about gear, it's even more fun to get new gear and it does play a role in your photography, but be realistic. I don't know what's worse, photographers and gear talk or weight training/body building enthusiast and supplement talk.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention Canon rulezz and every other brand sucks!



Nov 19, 2013 at 05:31 PM
Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · Canon hate?


Correlation does not equal causation.
Among those who buy new gear thinking it will make their photos better, once the initial effects wear off, many end up with buyer's remorse. Buy what you need, and nothing more.

People say that good gear can never hurt, but that money is often better spent on opportunity than stuff. Take a trip, see the world, meet new people, experience life. Doing all these things will get you more / better photos than new gear, and you'll probably find it more enjoyable too.



Nov 19, 2013 at 09:24 PM
Paul Mo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · Canon hate?


To say that people shouldn't complain defeats one of the purposes of this forum.

Worse is taking the arrogant stance that just because you do not complain you are the superior photographer/human being.

To put that another way, there is a train of thought emerging in this thread that seems to assert - I am a better photographer because I just get on with making great images, and it's the terrible photographers who whinge.



Nov 19, 2013 at 11:31 PM
Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · Canon hate?


While complaining doesn't necessarily make you any worse of a photographer, it certainly doesn't make you any better. And for those who depend on people, or opportunity, a negative or pessimistic attitude can cause you to miss opportunity or drive people way from you.

If complaining actually made things better, then more would stand by it as a useful practice. But it doesn't.

http://zenhabits.net/ah/



Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 PM
Paul Mo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · Canon hate?


To add to that, do you not thinking people are confusing complaining with discussion?


Nov 20, 2013 at 12:03 AM
Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · Canon hate?


Discussion hinges on balance, it implies back-and-forth, listening/perceiving as well as saying, taking the time to see things from other people's viewpoint, agreed principles (ie. reason), etc.

Whereas complaining is generally one-sided, people might be looking for [...] but that's it.



Nov 20, 2013 at 12:15 AM
tsdevine
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · Canon hate?



I understand your point. While I am not a pro, I've spent quite a number of years honing my skills. I think when it comes down to it, you are identifying experience as a factor in complaining. Many pros who have paid their dues, have found ways to workaround shortcomings...because they have to. And at the end of the day complaining will do no good.

Those who are inexperienced may be complaining as they just don't have the experience to understand what's the root of the problem, they are just frustrated and want something to work without understanding the details of what the problem is.

I'm much more comfortable with tying experience level to complaining and not complaining, then the blanket "pros" vs. "amateurs."

-Tim

Gunzorro wrote:
Tim -- Something else to consider in this distinction between pro/am, and complaining or not, is that most pros have extensive experience with their gear and most have extensive training (even if self-taught) and continual updates on new technology, while the highest percentage of amateurs are continually hitting the limit of their photographic knowledge and trying to push past it if they are working to improve their skills. As such, the pros have often already "paid their dues" and shed their tears earlier, and the newer photographers are still working through their learning curve aggravations. I'm talking the larger percentages
...Show more



Nov 20, 2013 at 12:33 AM
kdlanejr
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · Canon hate?


dpreview? do you also read grocery store tabloids?

Edited on Nov 20, 2013 at 01:12 AM · View previous versions



Nov 20, 2013 at 01:06 AM
artd
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · Canon hate?


Paul Mo wrote:
To add to that, do you not thinking people are confusing complaining with discussion?

I can tell you from experience that yes, that happens.

On several occasions in various forums in the past years, people have asked about how much of an imapct Canon's sensor performance can have in real world situations. I attempted to contribute to these discussions by posting carefully worded explanations detailing what scenarios people might see issues, where they are not likely to see issues, what steps can be taken to mitigate issues. I tried to make distinctions of where and how dynamic range in sensors will show little benefit, and in what types of scenarios they have potential to improve a photographers workflow.

On each of these occasions, there was always at least one person ready to label me a "complainer" or a "hater" (never mind the fact that I hadn't made a statement of complaint or expressed dislike for a Canon product). And then when I would clarify that, the common response at that point would be to resort to rebuttal via straw man tactics, and on several occasions also to impugn my competence as a photographer.

That's not to say that there aren't complainers out there. But in a lot of instances, some people would rather just make a snap judgement and a snarky remark than actually taking the time to read and comprehend what you're actually saying.



Nov 20, 2013 at 01:10 AM
jctriguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · Canon hate?


Paul Mo wrote:
Worse is taking the arrogant stance that just because you do not complain you are the superior photographer/human being.

To put that another way, there is a train of thought emerging in this thread that seems to assert - I am a better photographer because I just get on with making great images, and it's the terrible photographers who whinge.


What about the flip side? Those on this forum who take the arrogant approach that you must complain, otherwise you are a 'fanboy' or somehow trying to manipulate the system.

If you aren't critical enough, you are just not experienced or don't know enough to understand that you are using inferior equipment.



Nov 20, 2013 at 01:22 AM
1       2       3              8      
9
       10       11       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              8      
9
       10       11       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password