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Canon hate?
  
 
jctriguy
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p.3 #1 · Canon hate?


Paul Mo wrote:
Personally, it is not hate but frustration with little things.

How much was my 5D3 new? Look, it's a great camera, but did the testers of the pre-release models, and Canon themselves, not notice the crappy CF card eject mechanism? The weak battery door? The awful 'default to SD but not detect and revert to CF card when reinserted' function? The virtually useless SD write times?

It's the little things that reek of oversight that become magnified and indicative of a (slightly) rushed product.

Add to that the fact that it seems no one cares or is prepared to listen to us
...Show more

You, along with many others, need to adjust expectations. No product has every been released with zero flaws or small glitches. If they took the attitude you are expressing, they would never release a product since you could always tweak something that doesn't work perfectly.

Nikon and Sony are equally 'guilty' of releasing products with minor and major flaws that any tester should identify. It is how business operates.

And you are right, Canon and the other big companies don't really care what anyone says on these forums. I'm sure they are all monitored by every major company, but taken with a huge grain of salt.



Nov 15, 2013 at 11:30 PM
Access
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p.3 #2 · Canon hate?


jctriguy wrote:
And you are right, Canon and the other big companies don't really care what anyone says on these forums. I'm sure they are all monitored by every major company, but taken with a huge grain of salt.

Actually, I doubt they even monitor them. Where is the value in it?



Nov 15, 2013 at 11:39 PM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #3 · Canon hate?


jctriguy wrote:
You, along with many others, need to adjust expectations. No product has every been released with zero flaws or small glitches. If they took the attitude you are expressing, they would never release a product since you could always tweak something that doesn't work perfectly.


So by that logic, at Le Bernardin prices we should put up with a Filet O' Fish?

I would say the things I listed would be pretty small fixes for Canon.

a) A new spring for the CF card eject - the 1D3 is great at spitting out the card.

b) Redesign the battery door hinge and flap - just make it feel as if it will last.

c) Rethink the use of an SD card altogether.

d) Reprogram the camera to detect when the CF card is reinserted and enable the user to set it as THE default slot.

The question is why wouldn't they want to do such small improvements? Or did they just not know?






Nov 15, 2013 at 11:50 PM
jctriguy
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p.3 #4 · Canon hate?


Paul Mo wrote:
So by that logic, at Le Bernardin prices we should put up with a Filet O' Fish?

I would say the things I listed would be pretty small fixes for Canon.

a) A new spring for the CF card eject - the 1D3 is great at spitting out the card.

b) Redesign the battery door hinge and flap - just make it feel as if it will last.

c) Rethink the use of an SD card altogether.

d) Reprogram the camera to detect when the CF card is reinserted and enable the user to set it as THE default slot.

The question is why
...Show more

They sit down with the project managers and put together a list of every detail of the camera. The business guys sit there and analyze the 'to do list' and together they make decisions as to what will be fixed and what will be ignored for that model. At some point when the vast majority of essential items are addressed, they draw the line and start production of the product. They likely have 1000's of issues, bugs and features to try and perfect before a product launch.

That is how I would imagine it works at a major company with huge product development teams. I have the same meetings on minor projects I'm involved with.



Nov 16, 2013 at 12:16 AM
Camperjim
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p.3 #5 · Canon hate?


Actually my experience on the DPreview forums has been the exact opposite. There are some very, very strong Canon supporters and they argue any complaint or comment to a ridiculous extent. Of course, it might be that the different forums exhibit different behaviors. I have mostly spent time on the XXD/7D forum. Maybe the full frame forum is different.

Personally, I have a hard time understanding the whole issue of brand loyalty. I wish the Chinese would enter the camera market and stir up some real competition.



Nov 16, 2013 at 12:55 AM
Gochugogi
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p.3 #6 · Canon hate?


Camperjim wrote:
Actually my experience on the DPreview forums has been the exact opposite. There are some very, very strong Canon supporters and they argue any complaint or comment to a ridiculous extent. Of course, it might be that the different forums exhibit different behaviors. I have mostly spent time on the XXD/7D forum. Maybe the full frame forum is different.

Personally, I have a hard time understanding the whole issue of brand loyalty. I wish the Chinese would enter the camera market and stir up some real competition.


The Chinese design and make Seagull cameras. Brand loyalty is a normal part of human nature. It's build into us and is a modern variant of tribalism. People think their town, church, school, team, computer, camera, etc, are better than everybody else and will defend their ____ tribe to the point of silliness.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:06 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #7 · Canon hate?


Gochugogi wrote:
The Chinese design and make Seagull cameras.


Their TLR was great - a very popular alternative to the Rollei and Mamiya.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:15 AM
sirimiri
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p.3 #8 · Canon hate?


PetKal wrote:
I've said some nasty things about Canon Canada in the past, for which I apologize to Canon employees and their families.
I was in a drunken stupor at the time of making those hateful comments.

If you didn't beat your breast while pronouncing "mea culpa, mea culpa" then you need to take a hard look at yourself.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:16 AM
chez
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p.3 #9 · Canon hate?


deepbluejh wrote:
No, it's about discussing the mentality behind all of the vitriol. If you're unsure what I'm talking about, a quick trip over the DPReview should clear things up.


I visit the dpreview printer forum and find it very informative. Their review of equipment is also very well done.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:19 AM
cputeq
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p.3 #10 · Canon hate?


DPR gear forums are the boil on the ass of photographic society.
I take nothing the posters say to heart, though occasionally one can get a glimmer of useful information there. Sometimes I even partake in conversations, but it's pretty rarely.


That said - I think the fanboys and/or expatriates are just pissed Canon's been fairly stagnant on the frontier, though financially speaking, Canon's doing everything right.

Some of that vitriol can been seen here, just much more rarely. Ever visit the Nikon forum and read a "recent convert" thread? It can get pretty hyperbolic rather quickly.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:20 AM
 

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chez
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p.3 #11 · Canon hate?


cputeq wrote:
DPR gear forums are the boil on the ass of photographic society.
I take nothing the posters say to heart, though occasionally one can get a glimmer of useful information there. Sometimes I even partake in conversations, but it's pretty rarely.

That said - I think the fanboys and/or expatriates are just pissed Canon's been fairly stagnant on the frontier, though financially speaking, Canon's doing everything right.

Some of that vitriol can been seen here, just much more rarely. Ever visit the Nikon forum and read a "recent convert" thread? It can get pretty hyperbolic rather quickly.


Then why visit them? Seems like you know all about them, why?



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:24 AM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #12 · Canon hate?


PetKal wrote:
I've said some nasty things about Canon Canada in the past, for which I apologize to Canon employees and their families.
I was in a drunken stupor at the time of making those hateful comments.



Ha-ha-ha!

MelPetKal!



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:32 AM
cputeq
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p.3 #13 · Canon hate?


chez wrote:
Then why visit them? Seems like you know all about them, why?



I don't know, sheer morbid curiosity.

And realize, I did give two qualifiers.

DPR gear forums are poor IMO (while some of the photo forums are pretty nice) and that one can occasionally find some interesting or useful information out there, either from a forum contributor or a link that someone dredges up.



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:35 AM
artd
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p.3 #14 · Canon hate?


Access wrote:
Actually, I doubt they even monitor them. Where is the value in it?

Well...companies spend lots of time and money trying to gauge consumer sentiment. Some companies actually pay to have focus groups conducted where people come in and give them opinions about products, both theirs and their competitors'. Here on internet forums, us suckers are doing it for them for free!

They probably aren't paying attention to the minutia on internet forums, but I would think any company would want to get a sense for what kind of consumer feedback their products are generating in a broad sense.

If a company releases a great new camera, but there's a constant stream of threads on camera forums about how the autofocus sucks, maybe they'll think about improving the autofocus in the next generation of camera....



Nov 16, 2013 at 01:59 AM
goldencode
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p.3 #15 · Canon hate?


No hate here, I am very happy to be in the Canon camp. My 5D3 + 70-200 f2.8 II makes me smile everyday. Peace.


Nov 16, 2013 at 02:30 AM
asiafish
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p.3 #16 · Canon hate?


New Canon owner here, 6D with 24-120L now happily sharing a cabinet with my Leica M Monochrom. Both outstanding at what they do.


Nov 16, 2013 at 03:33 AM
rscheffler
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p.3 #17 · Canon hate?


Access wrote:
Actually, I doubt they even monitor them. Where is the value in it?


They do. Not sure how in-depth or frequently, but I have been asked, over the phone, by Canon staff about comments I have posted here on FM in this forum.



Nov 16, 2013 at 03:59 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.3 #18 · Canon hate?


If the Sony/Nikon sensors were not better than the Canon counterparts most people would be praising the 1DX and 5D3 and hating the Nikons. As it is now they get some praise.

It is not easy to keep us discriminating forum folk happy and the forums rant free. Although a 5D3 with a Nikon D800E sensor would have quieted down things significantly.

The EOS M? Well, Canon did well burying it. Fast.

That aside and disregarding video, Canon has been very busy designing and releasing new EOS Lenses (17L TS-E anyone?) and improved versions of their lenses which are awesome. The AF in the 5D3 and 1DX has also received praise. So they have lagged in one tiny thing, the sensor. No big deal.



Nov 16, 2013 at 04:55 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #19 · Canon hate?


Most gear forums end up with a group of pro or anti (name your brand) zealots.
Computer forums: Nvidia vs AMD or Intel vs AMD
Phone forums: Apple vs Android
Car forums: Ford vs GM or for the more well healed Porsche vs Ferrari
Ice Cream forum: vanilla vs chocolate - I'll put my hand up and say I'm a chocolate zealot; burn in hell vanilla losers. Just kidding, I once met a person that liked vanilla ice cream and they seemed outwardly normal.

In every case there is no middle ground between these groups; there is no acknowledgement of the others achievements, just as sure as the sun will rise, the other brand sucks.

I see the most hatred for Canon on the alt gear forum. Very hostile and why I don't visit too often.




Nov 16, 2013 at 05:07 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #20 · Canon hate?


I shoot Canon. I often shoot with friends who shoot Nikon, Pentax, Mamiya, you name it. In the real world, the brand bigotry stuff is irrelevant and rarely mentioned, except with an eye-roll about the folks who engage in it.


Nov 16, 2013 at 05:42 AM
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