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T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?
  
 
John Patrick
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p.2 #1 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


I've also used H&H with their eZevents software. Only issue that was their fault was a keychain fob that had a cutting error on one side. I sent them a picture of it and it was taken care of. Only issue was that I had to use their software to re-order that one item again.

Lee, I'd be interested in your PM with your history of experience with other labs for T&I fulfillment.

John



Nov 18, 2013 at 01:48 AM
leewoolery
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p.2 #2 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


John:

My assistant uses Miller's Pro Lab Remote Suite for order uploads. It's the best system we have found.

It's an incredibly fast and efficient program for teams and individuals.

Once you set up your packages, you select the league or school's set of custom templates, you type in the player's name and team and then you can select your individual photos per item ( buttons, wallets, fridge mags, trader cards...etc.) and crop and adjust accordingly.

As an example...our package B includes one 5 x 7 individual, one 5 x 7 team, 8 die-cut wallets, two 3 1/2" photo buttons and a fridge mag. When this package is selected for a particular school or youth league, all of the photo items in that package appear with custom graphics on one page with the player's name in position.

You simply select the photos for that player and drop them into position and crop as you see fit and then hit finish and go to the next player.

The photo products for each team order come back shrink-wrapped in their own package ( usually in one day via overnight Fedex at no charge ) so they are easy to sort and place in envelopes for delivery to schools, coaches booster club or youth league rep.

My assistant has edited, uploaded, packaged and delivered some teams of 20 players or less in two days. You talk about happy customers!

In a pinch, I had to edit and upload two junior high teams of about 50 players on a Monday morning and the photo products were back in my hands the next morning by 11:00 AM, ready to be packaged and delivered to the school the next day.

We tried the complete order fulfillment services offered by a few nationally-known photo labs and the results were unsatisfactory and in some cases...a first class nightmare and disaster. At 50-60% of your total order amount, that wouldn't be so bad...if everything was perfect...but it wasn't.

The biggest flub occurred when one of the labs was to mail out the completed photo packages of a 300 member youth football and cheerleading league to each household. That sounded like a pretty good deal.

Unbeknownst to me, they chose a discount mailing service that sent the completed orders to a U.S. Postal routing center where all parcels were placed in their own bin.

Problem was, the individual orders didn't go out until that bin was full and that took three weeks of orders from my studio. I had clients calling me and asking where their pictures were and I told them they had been mailed out 3 weeks ago.

The packages left the lab three weeks earlier but were sitting in a postal mailing bin waiting to be filled to the brim before any were mailed to my clients. The local postmaster gave me the scoop on this practice and showed me how companies were using that service for bulk mailing of junk mail...not to be used on time sensitive photo orders.

The lab admitted that the parcels were lost in transit and agreed to reprint the order at no charge and over-nighted 10 boxes full of print orders to me which were then passed out to the teams.

Within three days, the bins at the postal center were filled and all the parents started receiving their packages in the mail so everybody in the league who ordered pictures got doubles.

Boy was the lab surprised when I told them how the local postmaster ratted them out.

Pretty embarrassing situation for a studio owner. The parents didn't care...they thought I was a crook who took their money and ran.

As was previously stated, you are placing your reputation in the hands of a photo lab when they select the images, type in the information, crop, process, package and mail to your client...sight unseen!!!

Never again for me.

I like seeing the finished product before it goes out to the client.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot




Nov 20, 2013 at 12:11 AM
DPC1
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p.2 #3 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


I've heard that some leagues/clubs want a kick back from the T&I sales. How do you normally handle that? Is it a percentage of sales or some other incentive?


Nov 24, 2013 at 10:31 PM
Matt OHarver
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p.2 #4 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


Negotiate with them. Standard in this area is 10%.


Matt



Nov 24, 2013 at 10:48 PM
DPC1
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p.2 #5 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


Thanks again for everyone's help!

Exciting news! I wrapped up my meeting with the soccer club earlier today and they're on board for 2014! Now comes the fun part... The contract. Any suggestions on where to start with this?



Dec 06, 2013 at 12:22 AM
leewoolery
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p.2 #6 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


DPC1 wrote:
Thanks again for everyone's help!

Exciting news! I wrapped up my meeting with the soccer club earlier today and they're on board for 2014! Now comes the fun part... The contract. Any suggestions on where to start with this?


Congratulations,

Here are a few things to think about when writing up an agreement ( hopefully you took good notes during the board meeting so there are no surprises ):

-% of pay back if one is agreed to

-any type of special gifts you provide such as sponsor plaques

-expected delivery times for finished photo products

-exclusivity if you are also taking action photos

-your amount of business and liability insurance ($2,000,000 to $4,000,000)

-length of time for agreement and some wording for an "out" for both parties

-wording which states you will provide order forms and league must distribute to coaches and players a couple of weeks before photo day

-spell out the specifics for photo day such as one team every 20 minutes

It can start out as simple as:

I, John Smith, doing business as ABC Photography of 123 Main Street, Anytown, USA 12345 agrees to provide the following photographic services to the USA Youth Soccer Association for the 2014 season:

-provide team and individual photos for all players and teams

-provide low-rez images for use on the league website

-provide action coverage of any player who requests it and upload images to my website www.aaaaaphoto.com for purchase

-give the league back ? % of net sales after taxes

-completed photo products will be delivered to soccer complex, league or parent rep with 2 weeks after photo day

-both parties agree that this contract can be voided at any time by either party, for any reason in writing

-the league will provide a link on their website to your business

....etc....

A lawyer could draw up a very simple agreement for you that would be the best course of action to protect you and the league since you are in California or take them a rough outline and have them legalize it.

Good luck,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot



Dec 07, 2013 at 12:51 AM
DPC1
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p.2 #7 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


Exactly what I was looking for!! Thank you very much Lee!!!!


Dec 07, 2013 at 01:05 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



leewoolery
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p.2 #8 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


DPC1 wrote:
Exactly what I was looking for!! Thank you very much Lee!!!!


Glad to be of assistance.

A lawyer may have a standard type of contract or agreement that can be modified to fit your needs.

You just want to cover your bases...we do photographs...lawyers handle legal matters....so it's best to let a professional handle that for you.

Hopefully...this 150 player league will lead to a 750 player league.

Good luck with everything,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot





Dec 07, 2013 at 02:53 AM
Beau Arnold
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p.2 #9 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


If there is a possibility of something going wrong it will do so at the worst time. I cancelled a league the night before due to rain cold temps baseball softball 600 kids only to have the league president call me the following morning at 7:00 saying they were playing and wanted to know if I could be there in 1.5 hrs. 45 minute travel time and 7 employees calls begging later I was set up and ready for my first team. We had approx 8 teams waiting for us to get started 100 kids. I had 4 people at 2 order tables and we shot the league start to finish in approx 4 hours. I had 2 vb's die and 1 shutter fail. I'd sure hate for that to have been my first league. HH and Richmonds do my printing. Have a backup for everything and make sure your assistants get the image numbers right and take your time ordering within reason. Good luck if you get the league 150 kids with 3 employees is no problem if you have a schedule that the league has bought into.


Dec 11, 2013 at 08:50 PM
DPC1
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p.2 #10 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


Beau Arnold wrote:
If there is a possibility of something going wrong it will do so at the worst time. I cancelled a league the night before due to rain cold temps baseball softball 600 kids only to have the league president call me the following morning at 7:00 saying they were playing and wanted to know if I could be there in 1.5 hrs. 45 minute travel time and 7 employees calls begging later I was set up and ready for my first team. We had approx 8 teams waiting for us to get started 100 kids. I had 4 people
...Show more

Great advice and thank you Beau!

What are "vb's"?



Is anyone doing "composite" style team photos on the larger scale? Just curious how that's working out.



Dec 13, 2013 at 06:50 AM
clarence3
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p.2 #11 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


leewoolery wrote:
both parties agree that this contract can be voided at any time by either party, for any reason in writing


Not much of a contract then, is it?



Dec 13, 2013 at 07:52 PM
leewoolery
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p.2 #12 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


clarence3 wrote:
Not much of a contract then, is it?


...it's a standard performance clause in any such agreement I've ever been involved in...it protects the league or school if the photographer doesn't live up to their end of the bargain and same goes if school or league doesn't live up to their side of the agreement.

I've had to clean up the mess left by a few photographers where they really caused alot of problems and the schools/leagues needed a quick solution to see that they were provided the photography as agreed to and it wasn't very pretty with bad blood on both sides.

It was fortunate, in two cases, where the lawyers for the school system used the "performance" clause to rid themselves of very unprofessional photographers and voided the three year contracts.

Because of those actions by the photographers, that is standard wording now in my agreements...and I can't blame them for demanding that wording.

Sitting in those meetings and listening to the complaints levied against the guilty photographers by superintendents, principals, coaches, league reps and athletic directors, made me realize that they were hung out to dry by photographers who could care less about what was on a piece of paper.

During one of my initial meetings with a high school for a photo contract, the athletic director looked me right in the eyes and said we are doing an extensive background check to make sure you (me) have never pulled any stunts like the previous photographer did!

I've never been in the situation to where I wanted to void a contract because of something a league or school has done but if it ever did happen, an out clause may be necessary.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot



Dec 13, 2013 at 10:00 PM
James Broome
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p.2 #13 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


DPC1 wrote:
Is anyone doing "composite" style team photos on the larger scale? Just curious how that's working out.


I do them for a 10 team league (25 kids per team). Each athlete is shot individually then I combine them into team shots in Photoshop.



Dec 13, 2013 at 11:14 PM
Beau Arnold
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p.2 #14 · T&I Photos for 150 Kids - Where to Start?


DPC1 wrote:
Great advice and thank you Beau!

What are "vb's"? They are vagabonds portable power devices from Paul Buff.

Is anyone doing "composite" style team photos on the larger scale? Just curious how that's working out.




Dec 22, 2013 at 08:36 PM
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