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Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 ...
  
 
Wilbus
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Yup I know and I apologize, it's the never ending question and it may just be another GAS period but I still need to ask some questions.

I currently own an Olympus Em-5 and for the most part I am happy with it, I sold my Nikon D700 in favor for it. Sometimes I regret it but most times I don't, the size and weight difference is huge and that alone makes it worth it.
I recently looked at one of my D700 RAW files again and compared it to one from the Em-5 and I must say the difference is huge at 100% viewing, the D700 files are buttery smooth (I'm not talking about bokeh here but the file itself). The Em-5 has got some noticeable noise even at base ISO and that sometimes annoy me. However, I've also come to realize that what doesn't show in print really doesn't matter and so far I haven't seen any of the noise in any prints (only printed as big as european A4 (30x21 cm or about 11,6x8,3 inches) so no real big prints yet.

I think my biggest gripe with the Em-5 is that I don't really connect to the camera, it feels too digital, I loved the buttons and knobs on the D700. I love my Nikon Fm2 and Nikon F3, I think all I really want and require is aperture, shutter speed and ISO settings easily available, I rarely use all the bells and whistles. I mainly shoot in aperture priority mode (95% of the time) or full manual (usually when using off camera flash).

I was very excited about the Nikon DF but came to the conclusion that while it looks beautiful it is still nothing more then a D610 in a prettier package (not saying it is more ergonomic, but prettier). I do believe that mirror less is the future in most ways, for size if nothing else.

I have been considering the Sony A7/A7r but again, I feel those will be too digital not to mention I don't feel Sony have been very fast as far as putting out glass goes.

So, after a lot of reading and looking I am considering buying in to the Fuji X-system, not to replace my Olympus Em-5 but rather to use them together, I feel the Em-5 would most defiantly be the camera for when I shoot sailing/sailing competition photos (haven't done it much yet) as well as adventure sports, mostly thanks to it's weather sealing.

The image quality of the Fujis seem to be second to non as far as I've seen so far, the files look clean, the high ISO looks great and I absolutely love the control layout, exposure compensation dial, aperture ring around the lens and shutter speed settings on a wheel (although I'd be as happy choosing that as I do on most other digital cameras with a rear dial).

I was thinking about going for an Xe-2 (only about $150 more in Sweden where I live) but recently saw some amazing rebates on the X-Pro 1. Basically I can get the X-Pro 1 with the 18mm and 35mm lens for $400 more then the two lens alone, if I were to buy those two lenses and the X-E2 the prize would be about $700 more (remember, everything is about 25% more expensive here then in the US so don't be put of by the actual prizes). If I were to buy the X-Pro 1 stand alone it cost almost the same as the package with the two lenses. (about $250 less but then I'd have no lenses for it).

Another reason I am considering the Fuji and the biggest reason I wanted to go back to Nikon is that I have a bunch of manual Nikon Ai-s lenses that I want to use again and have the same perspective as the lenses were designed for. I understand that a Fuji and speed booster would make this possible (more or less at least).

Long post, hope some of you have the patience to read it and help me THINK. Of course, staying pure m43 would allow me to spend the money on nothing but lenses but even now after more then a year I still don't feel 100% comfortable with the Em-5 and haven't really felt the "I am never gonna leave this system" feeling. (I did feel that with Nikon but then size/weight had a say about it )

Regards



Nov 13, 2013 at 02:24 PM
kewlcanon
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


"I have been considering the Sony A7/A7r but again, I feel those will be too digital not to mention I don't feel Sony have been very fast as far as putting out glass goes. "

Fuji is also digital and Zeiss is also making lenses for Sony.



Nov 13, 2013 at 02:52 PM
barisaxer
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


The olympus wins the size battle and the lenses are micro sized. The nikon wins quality and the fuji is the one of the three I always have with me. I love the layout and the fuji lenses are almost all great. I can get great 16*20 prints from all but the oly has to be a good file. The built in stabilizer helps here. Nikon is largest and best files it has become my 4x5 the fuji is my 1st choice love the handling and lenses are wow. Olympus is a great cam files not as nice as the other two but small and some real lens gems in the 4/3 lenses. XE1 omd em5 and d800 is my current line up. Using other lenses on the fuji I have some contax g etc has not been for me great files but slow to use. The fuji glass is a real reason to shoot the system for me.


Nov 13, 2013 at 03:17 PM
atwl77
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


I used to own the X-Pro1 before selling it to help fund my Leica M240 purchase. It is still a very good camera, the only significant difference being that the XE2 has phase detection pixels so IQ-wise, they should be practically identical.

What's different though, is the operation and handling. The X-Pro1 is larger, so better for bigger hands, and also has the unique hybrid viewfinder. Whether that is important to you or not depends on your shooting style. Some love it, and some hate it so you have to take that into consideration -- but one thing is certain, the OVF will be useless for manually focusing your Nikon lenses and you will have to switch to EVF or LCD for that.

The XE2's advantage comes in the higher resolution EVF and also on-sensor phase detection pixels similar to the X100S. This may actually be an interesting tool for manual focus -- if you looked at youtube videos to see how their digital split image system works, you may prefer it to focus peaking and/or magnification for manual focus.

Personally I think the XE2 is a better bet... but the X-Pro1 still has its merits if you fancy a bigger body with hybrid viewfinder.



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:22 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


kewlcanon wrote:
Fuji is also digital and Zeiss is also making lenses for Sony.


true and point taken! What I meant was that I feel the Sony might have a lot of digital feel to it just as the Olympus does, not enough actual mechanical controls which I tend to like, silly perhaps but true. The Sony would also set me back a whole lot more. The Zeiss lenses are a real bonus but they also make lenses for Fuji and Nikon/canon (I'd some day love to have a Zeiss, specially the ZF series for the Nikon). I feel the Sony isn't a real alternative, cost is one reason...




Nov 13, 2013 at 03:26 PM
cputeq
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


All the systems have their quirks. Nothing wrong with Fuji, great ergonomics and IQ. Though if I were buying new, I would go for XE2 or wait longer to see what the xpro2 offers.


Nov 13, 2013 at 03:28 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Barisaxer, yes indeed m43/Olympus wins the size battle. The lenses are very small and it's a real treat. I sometimes feel it is too small though but with the added grip it's all right.

You say you love the handling of the Fuji system and this would probably be the main reason for me to add the system to my camera bag.

Guess I am not completely stupid for wanting two systems seeing as others run with two or three as well



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:32 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Atwl7, thanks for the info

I've been pondering the viewfinder a bit, I have looked through the X100 viewfinder and wasn't very impressed with the OVF, I don't think I would use the OVF of the X-Pro 1 much or at all, I've gotten used to the EVF on the Olympus Em-5 so the big question would be how much difference there are between those two?

Larger wouldn't be that much of a problem I think, after all, I would keep the Em-5 and that is as small as I'd like to go unless I go for a true pocketable camera.

I was pretty set on the Xe-2 to start with but the great rebates of the X-Pro 1 and 18mm and 35mm lenses kind of got me thinking about that instead. Phase detect and split prism look alike focusing for MF would be a pretty big deal though and may be worth spending some extra on. Like I said, buying the X-Pro 1 with lens rebates would get me the camera for about $300 so it feels like a pretty good deal, especially since I love primes. The Xe-2 would set me back another 700. One idea I had was to sell the X-Pro 1 in favor of the Xe-2 but not sure how easy it is to sell.



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:37 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Cputeq, that's what I've been thinking about as well, wait for the X-Pro 2 or go for the Xe-2 and one lens to start with (it would still be more expensive then the X-Pro 1 and both lenses). Had the X-pro 1 still been "expensive" the choice would have been a no brainer for me, the Xe-2 would have been the clear choice but these damn rebates makes it tougher.

And yes, all systems have quirks, you just need to learn to live with it and accept it. I guess I am mostly after a no nonsense camera and system, kind of hard to explain but I tend to take fewer photos with the Em-5 then I did before simply because I don't feel a connection with the camera.



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:42 PM
Jochenb
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


I have experience with both the E-M5 and Fuji X cameras. To me the Fuji X cameras have the best feeling interface in the business right now. Using one feels different... just right IMHO.
If you're fine with the X-trans sensor (that's a different discussion) I would say go for one. I'm sure you'll be much happier about the general feeling of using it. It doesn't have that "I'm using a computer" feel of the E-M5.



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:43 PM
 

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Jman13
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


The X-E2 is the better camera right now vs the X-Pro1. AF is faster, camera is faster, it has WiFi, EVF is far better (though it lacks the OVF). It's much more refined.

Fuji vs m4/3 is a very close race, and as I detailed in another post, I use both, and while I'm transitioning to Fuji as my main kit and m4/3 to supplement that rather than the other way around, there are major benefits to both systems. There is excellent glass for both systems, so that's not much of an issue. m4/3 has the larger lens lineup, though when you look at top tier lenses, they're pretty close.

I like that the Fuji lenses all draw similarly, but that's just a preference. I prefer the Fuji controls overall, but more because of their simplicity and purity. The m4/3 cams have many more features, better video support, smaller lenses, etc. Image quality is better on the Fuji's, but it's not an enormous difference. I do prefer the tonal rolloff and the way they hold up when more extensive post processing is needed. Both systems have cameras with excellent dynamic range. Overall, the m4/3 cameras have faster AF and are more responsive in general, though Fuji has caught up a lot over the last few months. The X-E2 at first blush (I've used it for approx. 5 minutes) has notably faster AF than previous Fuji cameras in many situations, though it slows down in some circumstances. It's also responsive enough now that it doesn't slow me down. The X-E1 would sometimes, especially when shooting with manual lenses and needing to maginfy, frustrate me intensely.



Nov 13, 2013 at 03:54 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


'I feel those will be too digital'

Well, when they are released, take your SD card and Olympus to the store and shoot some detailed scene or portraits with both...see what you prefer. Unless you have a closed mind on the subject of course. Look, all are good, some are more good than others, and yes, all are very digital but the best FF cameras make it look so real...good luck.



Nov 14, 2013 at 08:47 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Jochen, you described it very very well there, the feel of using a computer... like I said, the Em-5 is great in every way but it just doesn't feel quite right to me.

It does sound like the X-system might fit me well

Thanks Jman, X-E2 does indeed sound better then the X-Pro 1 even though it is quite a bit more expensive compared to the campaign of the X-Pro but it also sounds like it could be worth it.
I too would use the Fuji as my main system and the m43 as a complimentary system for things when I need weather sealing (for example). It looks like both systems have pros and cons. m43 does indeed have some wonderful lenses as does Fuji, I am mostly/only interested in the high/very high quality ones. Having better RAW files that can handle some more processing would be nice as well (although I understand the X-trans sensor still creates some trouble).

Philip, good idea, like I said, I've had FF before and the files are indeed much smoother, however, I am not sure when the difference finally shows up in prints. I might have to try and do some large prints to see if there is a difference.

I have no real problem with a digital look of the files, I have almost only used digital and it's what I know, digital looks great, as does analog. However, I do have some issues with the digital feel of the cameras, like Jochen said, it feels like shooting with a computer!

Thanks for all the replies, opinions and help all of you



Nov 14, 2013 at 02:52 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


X-Trans issues are predominantly overblown, but there are situations where ACR in particular can make a mess of things. However, in those situations, I've found Capture One does an excellent job handling the X-Trans files. And they print beautifully.

Now having used the X-E2 for a day, I'd say absolutely that's the way to go. It's just a much more responsive and refined camera than the first generation Fuji cams. X-E2 vs Micro 4/3 is still a sticky wicket, but it comes down to preference. If you push your files a lot, you'll be more pleased with the Fuji files, I'd say.



Nov 14, 2013 at 03:30 PM
millsart
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Remember that the XPro OVF, while a nice feature, really only works over a limited range of focal lengths. Doesn't show full coverage with the 14mm, and won't with the 10-24 zoom, or the longer focal length zooms like 55-200 etc. You need to switch to the EVF mode on those, and its a pretty poor quality EVF.

Its a brilliant idea if you mainly shoot with something like the 35mm f1.4, but, if you plan to have a range of focal lengths, and do choose to go Fuji, the X-E2 could be a smarter choice on account of its EVF being vastly improved.



Nov 14, 2013 at 03:50 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Nice to hear that the X-trans issue is a bit overblown, I suspect it will also improve with time. I mainly use and would like to continue using Lightroom and or/Aperture, I never quite liked capture one but as with most other things it's a matter of learning I suspect. Lightrooms user interface has always been very intuitive in my opinion. I do like to be able to push my raw files, I don't always do it but I like it. This is one of the things the D700 really excelled at, I couldn't believe how far those files could be pushed. There seemed to be ALMOST endless information in them.
Sounds like I need to get my self a Fuji within a few months I think

Thanks Millsart, the OVF was somewhat interesting at first but comparing it to the OVF of a Pro DSLR it is quite crappy and like you say, it only works for some lenses and I feel very comfortable with EVF so the X-E2 feels like the right choice to me, I do like primes but I like a lot of different focal length and let's face it, zooms to have their (very) bright sides.



Nov 14, 2013 at 07:16 PM
Sal Baker
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


I'm about ready to pull the trigger on an X-E2 with kit zoom. Hopefully the primes will go on sale sometime soon (in the US).

While researching different camera options I download X-E1 RAW files off the web to evaluate. I converted in LR5 and Aperture. Aperture won by a wide margin. If X-E2 support looks as good, Aperture will be hard to beat.

Sal



Nov 14, 2013 at 09:05 PM
itai195
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


The X-Pro1 OVF is brilliant, but it is limited use. Hopefully the X-Pro2 will pair it with a great EVF, so we can have two good options. I just can't recommend an X-Pro1 at this point unless you really only shoot with focal lengths that work well with the OVF (e.g. 18mm - ~60mm).

If you are looking for a digital camera that doesn't feel too much like using a computer, I agree that Fuji is a pretty good choice in general. I also really liked the RX1 in this respect. Personally, I switched from the E-M5 to Fuji early this year and this is one of the reasons for it. I like the controls and overall user experience a lot better. The image quality is an improvement. The downside is you lose some features (e.g. IBIS) and the lenses are generally larger, but the overall size and weight is still below DSLR levels. Fuji's 14mm is also a big draw for me, I don't think m4/3 has anything really comparable.



Nov 14, 2013 at 09:53 PM
DavidWEGS
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Get a speed booster for your Em5. I did, and they are great.


Nov 15, 2013 at 02:18 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Fujifilm X-pro 1 vs m43 (well actually, include the X-e1 and X-e2 as well)


Sal Baker thanks for the info, I read on another forum that Aperture was better with the files as well and I do love Aperture (part from the fact that it feels very slow compared to Lightroom). Do you remember what you searched for when you found the files do download and test?

itai195 Yes I also feel the OVF would be very limited, sure I shoot mostly with primes but like I said before, zooms have their pros as well and to be frank the EVF's have gotten so good now that they really are good enough. Soon they will probably surpass an OVF when it comes to most things. I am quite satisfied with the one in the Em-5 although I wish it were a bit larger. I bet I would love the one in the Em-1.
This is the exact reason I am looking to add Fuji to the m43, to shoot with something that feels less like a computer and more like a camera again, it is also a reason the Sony A7's don't interest me that much at the moment but I will wait with a final verdict on that until I actually hold one.

I understand you lose some things like you say, IBIS, some size difference and most importantly to me I think, weather sealing which is one of the reasons I'd still keep m43. The Pan Leica 25mm is another reason I can not let go of it completely

[DavidWEGS] Well I have been thinking about it but it would still "only" give me a 1.5 crop factor, this is probably still mostly just in my mind as well but I would really really like to use my Nikon 50mm F1.2 (amongst others) as a true 50mm F1.2, right now it crops like a 100mm (which in it self is no bad thing) but I do love the 50mm point of view and the 35mm as well.

But it still a good option of course.



Nov 15, 2013 at 06:28 AM
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