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Archive 2013 · Alternative Systems & Lighting

  
 
goosemang
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


Hi Everyone,

I'm not a wedding photographer, however I figure you all would be the best group to ask about this subject. I do a fair amount of documentary type shooting, frequently indoors and in lousy light. I currently shoot Canon, and I really do so because a) my 5d3 will focus in lousy light, and b) it's a mature system with a variety of options for speedlites and related accessories, and I feel like Canon will be there for me and these accessories will work, period.

I have to admit that I am really not pleased with the image quality I'm getting from Canon with my low light, non-speedlite/strobe, non-tripod work. I do a lot of black and white conversions with adjustments to luminance levels, and the Canon files are way behind my Fuji files as far as I'm concerned. (But I wouldn't shoot an important event with my Fuji for love or money at this point, just because of the focusing. But that's another issue.) My other issue is size; I'm over carrying the brick. All this brings me to my question:

I am considering trying a non-DSLR system in the next year or so, however my main concern is that I'll get what I want as far as size and files quality go, but I'm afraid I'll be seriously left in the dust with regard to speedlites and responsive performance in the kind of conditions in which you use speedlites. Do either Sony, Fuji or Olympus currently produce any flash units that can rival the functionality of Canon's best units? I'm not worried about studio because I can just use pocket wizards and call it a day. But I KNOW that if I use my Canon and a 580 that it'll focus and it'll get the job done, and I'm worried about giving up that ability. I'm basically wondering if the smaller manufacturers are producing any professional level speedlites.

Are any of you all shooting/lighting events on any of these non-DSLR systems? Any thoughts?

Thanks



Nov 12, 2013 at 11:31 AM
hardlyboring
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


If you are having a problem with Canon files in low light you might be doing something technically wrong. IMO the Canon files are rock solid up to 25600 ISO. Hell IMO the files look plastic for BW's until like 6400 at least. No noise or anything at all.
What fuji are you talking about? The Xtrans sensor is pretty much my arch nemesis. I had an Xpro1 and X100s and HATED the files with a passion. IMO they were terrible.

Most of the newer DSLRs are so good the files tend to look a little plastic because of the advanced Noise reduction etc. That goes for Canon, Nikon, Fuji, and Sony to some extent.

I still shoot with a Nikon D3 because I do not really care for the newest line or sensors. The files are honestly just to good and they do not have any feeling.

I shoot a ton of film and can get by in pretty much any situation with fast lenses etc. @ 3200 iso. The new cameras just do not have a realistic feeling to them anymore.

My current kit is a Leica M240 and before that it was a Leica M9 with a variety of M mount lenses. My Leica will focus in any light and will keep going long after any DSLR as long as I can see what I want to focus on. I feel no limitations what so ever. The Leica files may technically speaking be behind the current line up of Canon, Sony, NIkon but they still have feeling to them.

If you want a smaller non dsl system the Sony A7 is what you want to look at. It has limitations but is pretty much the highest rated sensor out there besides the D800. It is more camera than anyone ever needs.



Nov 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM
goosemang
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


Thanks for the reply.

I shoot the Canon up to 12,800 pretty regularly, although I'm usually at 6400 and under. I usually avoid 25,600 because I can; I rarely need it.

I'm not out to slam Canon or anything here. It's a fantastic camera and I think the files are wonderful most of the time. But if any of you all do a ton of black and white you may have noticed that some cameras just behave better than others during conversion/in post-production, and I personally don't particularly like converting the 5D3 files if they're shot in lousy light.

I know folks aren't crazy about X-Trans, but I have to say I really like it and I think they produce great files for b&w conversion, even when the original file is in terrible light. (Low light/crappy tungsten or other bad artificial light.) I also feel this way about the non-Xtrans X100 files, which are also wonderful IMO.

But again I'm not really looking to discuss the b&w conversion quality of the cameras here. I know where to go to get what I want in that regard. I'm really wondering if any of these alternative camera systems are just that - systems that deliver not only in image quality, but in the capability of their lighting accessories.



Nov 12, 2013 at 11:46 AM
SloPhoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


Once you get serious about lighting, manual flashes become an option even for dynamic situations. With manual flash, the camera brand no longer matters.

Wait, are you worried about AF assist? If so, yes that is standard across all manufacturers.



Nov 12, 2013 at 11:56 AM
goosemang
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


I hadn't even considered non-OEM units, that makes sense. I'm not at the point yet where I can shoot all manual, but I'm working my way up. I get so much conflicting advice in that regard. I started off following strobist, all manual, and then I've been told by others that I'm wasting my time with that because the various TTL modes are so good nowadays I should just be using them. I suppose this topic is a whole other can of worms....


Nov 12, 2013 at 12:08 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


goosemang wrote:
Do either Sony, Fuji or Olympus currently produce any flash units that can rival the functionality of Canon's best units?


I'm very excited about this 3rd party flash system from Phottix. It just went on sale on B&H this morning for Canon only with Nikon by the end of 2013: http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-mitros-with-built-in-ttl-radio-announced/ Will it ever be avilable for Olympus, Sony or Fuji? I have no idea. But this unit offers more functionality than the Canon 600EX RT but for less cost and a two year warranty.



Nov 12, 2013 at 12:09 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


SloPhoto wrote:
Once you get serious about lighting, manual flashes become an option even for dynamic situations. With manual flash, the camera brand no longer matters.

Wait, are you worried about AF assist? If so, yes that is standard across all manufacturers.


With one little caveat, trying to find a manufacture that offers on-camera TTL pass though with control for OC manual power settings so that you can control light-out put consistantly without having to manually touch your OCF units AND not pay thorugh the nose for that option.



Nov 12, 2013 at 12:17 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


goosemang wrote:
I hadn't even considered non-OEM units, that makes sense. I'm not at the point yet where I can shoot all manual, but I'm working my way up. I get so much conflicting advice in that regard. I started off following strobist, all manual, and then I've been told by others that I'm wasting my time with that because the various TTL modes are so good nowadays I should just be using them. I suppose this topic is a whole other can of worms....


Use what works best for you and you don't have to be all manual, mix it, some TTL, some manual. As long as you have control of your manual output from your camera location it is fast and easy to do. TTL is like anything auto tool, WB, exposure or AF. It can all be fooled by the situation. I see lots of bad OCF these days and much of it is becasue the user has his units set to TTL.



Nov 12, 2013 at 12:36 PM
wuxiekeji
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Alternative Systems & Lighting


hardlyboring wrote:
If you are having a problem with Canon files in low light you might be doing something technically wrong. IMO the Canon files are rock solid up to 25600 ISO. Hell IMO the files look plastic for BW's until like 6400 at least. No noise or anything at all.


Really? I have a 6D, reputed often to be Canon's best in high ISO performance, and I almost never push it past 6400 and stay 1600 or lower if I can. Although noise performance may appear "spectacular" I find a lot of it is courtesy of a better denoising algorithm, and the RAW files show it. I find microcontrast takes a HUGE hit past 1600. Especially if you shoot on some heavily microcontrasty lenses (Zeiss 28/2 for example, or Zeiss 50/1.4 at f/2.8-f/4) it's extremely noticeable. Your images don't look bad at all, but they lose that characteristic "punch".

Here's an example, 1:1 crop of the out-of-camera JPEG. The noise performance is good at 25600, but the microcontrast is terrible.





ISO 25600







ISO 100




Nov 12, 2013 at 07:53 PM





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