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NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK
  
 
Norman my love
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


I am looking for a new monitor because I think my old CRT is drifting.

Does anyone know if the NEC Wide Gamut monitors can be used with the ColorMunki? I think I heard that they can not. Also is the ColorMunki able to adjust R G & B separately on the monitor, if the monitor allowed that? I was under the impression that only adjusted Brightness and contrast, however a sales Rep at the Large Camera Chain told me in advanced mode it is able to adjust colors individually to eliminate casts.



Nov 08, 2013 at 12:21 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Norman my love wrote:
I am looking for a new monitor because I think my old CRT is drifting.

Does anyone know if the NEC Wide Gamut monitors can be used with the ColorMunki? I think I heard that they can not. Also is the ColorMunki able to adjust R G & B separately on the monitor, if the monitor allowed that? I was under the impression that only adjusted Brightness and contrast, however a sales Rep at the Large Camera Chain told me in advanced mode it is able to adjust colors individually to eliminate casts.



It supports the Munki. I think you need to switch the Munki service off for it to work though.

This isn't the type of monitor you are used to so you don't do stuff like adjust the R,G,B like that on simpler monitors. It has a very advanced, ultra-linear 14 3D LUT system. You can move the primary locations around, adjust the white balance, program in a tone response curve, adjust the brightness. Most of it actually sort of does most of the work internally. For tone response, for all the ones it has built-in charts for, it's as simple as hitting sRGB vs Gamma 2.2 or whatnot and then it will do it, during calibration it basically just measures the WB and adjusts that while measuring with the probe and then it measures the primary locations (which can used in the profile it creates or it can use what the monitor thinks they have been set to, your choice).

For WB you don't tell it how much R,G,B you tell it what coordinates xy of xyY to target.



Nov 08, 2013 at 02:22 AM
howardm4
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


The Munki product line is hopelessly confusing in it's naming convention. The new 'Display' model IS NOT compatible whereas the 'Photo' is. When I say 'compatible', I mean 'the NEC Spectraview software can use it'. If you're going to get a monitor of this caliber, you REALLY want to use the Spectraview software as it's the only one to be able to manipulate the monitor's internal LUT and electronics. But, you do NOT really want to buy it as part of the PA241-SV setup as that comes w/a locked i1Display Pro that can only be used on NEC monitors. So, you end up buying the monitor and software separately (www.necdisplay.com) and use something like a i1Display Pro (the normal unlocked version) or a Spyder or something.

If you go to the necdisplay.com site and download the manual or README for the software, there is a list of supported hardware devices. Support for the ColorMunki was added in 2009 so it's obvious they are talking about the 'Photo' version (I have it). Lots of threads floating around about Munki Display NOT being supported (except via Argyll CMS which doesn't deal w/ the monitor internals)

Supported Color Sensors

SpectraView II supports the following color sensors:

NEC iOne Display V2
NEC MDSVSENSOR iOne Display V2 WG
NEC SpectraSensor Pro
NEC MDSVSENSOR3
X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Pro and iOne Monitor
X-Rite iOne Pro2
X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Display V1 and V2
X-Rite DTP94 / MonacoOPTIX-XR
X-Rite ColorMunki
X-Rite iOne Display Pro
Datacolor Spyder2
Datacolor Spyder3
Datacolor Spyder4
BasICColor Discus



Nov 08, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Norman my love
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Thanks SkiBum and Howard for your help and info. Sounds like you guys really know alot about this, but I'm still floundering a bit. Do I need to get the Spectraview Software and the hardware device? I saw it online, with one vendor, but I saw this monitor cheaper without it. What if I don't get it and I just make colorMunki (photo) regular monitor and printer profiles, without adjusting RGB, since this is supposed to do good RGB internally, with internal charts? Will it adjust RGB better by itself, than say a Dell U2412?

Lastly, is it worth it, or for most photographers is the U2412 fine?



Nov 08, 2013 at 04:25 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Norman my love wrote:
Thanks SkiBum and Howard for your help and info. Sounds like you guys really know alot about this, but I'm still floundering a bit. Do I need to get the Spectraview Software and the hardware device? I saw it online, with one vendor, but I saw this monitor cheaper without it. What if I don't get it and I just make colorMunki (photo) regular monitor and printer profiles, without adjusting RGB, since this is supposed to do good RGB internally, with internal charts? Will it adjust RGB better by itself, than say a Dell U2412?

Lastly, is it
...Show more

It has a much better color engine than the Dell.

You definitely want to buy the SpectraView II software for it.
You should be able to use the Colormunki Photo with it (although the i1 Display Pro also works well with it and you could buy that off the shelf x-rite branded, I've read that x-rite actually based the wide gamut calibration for their i1 Display Pro on the NEC PA241W itself, although some say the NEC branded custom calibrated, albeit locked (thanks to silly, absurd xrite games), reads it a touch differently).



Nov 08, 2013 at 07:48 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


howardm4 wrote:
The Munki product line is hopelessly confusing in it's naming convention. The new 'Display' model IS NOT compatible whereas the 'Photo' is. When I say 'compatible', I mean 'the NEC Spectraview software can use it'. If you're going to get a monitor of this caliber, you REALLY want to use the Spectraview software as it's the only one to be able to manipulate the monitor's internal LUT and electronics. But, you do NOT really want to buy it as part of the PA241-SV setup as that comes w/a locked i1Display Pro that can only be used on NEC monitors. So,
...Show more


Good points I totally forget about the ridiculous naming conventions where the new line can so easily be confused with totally different types of products from the old line. COlormunki Photo and COlormunki Display are very different and the i1 Pro and i1 Display Pro are utterly different (both good though).



Nov 08, 2013 at 07:50 PM
FLSTCSAM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Norman my love wrote:
Thanks SkiBum and Howard for your help and info. Sounds like you guys really know alot about this, but I'm still floundering a bit. Do I need to get the Spectraview Software and the hardware device? I saw it online, with one vendor, but I saw this monitor cheaper without it. What if I don't get it and I just make colorMunki (photo) regular monitor and printer profiles, without adjusting RGB, since this is supposed to do good RGB internally, with internal charts? Will it adjust RGB better by itself, than say a Dell U2412?

Lastly, is it
...Show more

I have an NEC PA271W with the Spectraview Software and the hardware. You want to buy them together, the X-Rite hardware is custom configured to work with the NEC monitor.

Yes, pricey, but very, very good.

Buy it. You will be happy.

Sam



Nov 08, 2013 at 11:58 PM
Norman my love
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Thanks skibum and FLASTCSAM,
So what I'm understanding here is that XRite, in addition to making the ColorMunki Photo hardware, which will work with the NEC, also make a Spectraview One, called XRite I1 Display Pro? I called XRite and I think he said the colorMunki hardware would work with it, but a newer one they made would not. I think he also said that the ColorMunki Photo hardware works with the NEC but the ColorMunki hardware does not work with the spectraview software, I'm not sure now. I wish I didn't have to spring for the extra hardware and software.



Nov 09, 2013 at 06:35 AM
 

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howardm4
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


I'll repeat.

The ColorMunki ('CM') Display device is NOT compatible w/ Spectraview ('SV') software and offers slower & dumbed down software for monitor profiling (this is pure marketing limitation).
The older CM 'Photo' (which is a spectrometr) device IS compatible w/ SV (and also profiles printers).

The XRite i1Display Pro IS compatible w/ SV software and can profile most any monitor too.
The customized XRite i1Display Pro that you get as part of the NEC SV 'package' (puck and software) is LOCKED and can only profile NEC Spectraview displays.

You can purchase the SV software alone for $90 from necdisplay.com

So, if you want maximum flexibility going forward, you get the NEC monitor, the SV software and one of the XRite units that are supported. That way, you're not locked into buying another device if/when you get a non-NEC display.

If you're not going to get the SV software, then you're losing a chunk of the value of having spent $$ on an NEC Spectraview monitor. It's just an additional cost.



Nov 09, 2013 at 12:46 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


If you get or use a puck that is not compatible with the spectraview II software then it can only play with the 8-bit lookup table in the graphics card. That is a poor choice compared to having a puck that lets spectraview II play with the 14-bit LUT in the monitor, and the other goodies in the monitor.

With spectraview II running the show the colour profile used by the graphics card is just a dummy one that does nothing to the graphics card LUT. However, as well as controlling the monitor colours and tones the spectraview II solution lets you pick a screen brightness and it sets the screen to that brightness. So you can have multiple spectraview II profiles for different brightness and other settings that are instantly selectable without you having to manually change the screen brightness.

There may be an option to get spectraview II software bundled with a puck but then you cannot use that puck with other monitors unless they also happen to be NEC and compatible with the spectraview II software, so it becomes a less universal and therefore somewhat wasteful investment.

The modern i1 Display Pro puck is reputed to be accurate, consistent, reliable and compatible with modern screens. So is the modern ColorMunki whatever but for its lower price it takes a lot longer to create a profile - and that time adds up if you create different profiles for different combinations of paper, ink and viewing condition. Even for a single printer with standard inks you'll have profiles for matte paper, glossy paper, prints viewed at night under incandescent room lighting, prints viewed at night under brighter and whiter lighting, prints viewed during daylight under window lighting, etc.

- Alan



Nov 09, 2013 at 06:43 PM
Norman my love
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


Howard m4 and Alan 321 - Thanks for the great explanations! I do have ColorMunki Photo and consider it kind of a dumbed down Profiler. I had Monaco EZ Color before that and loved it, but it was not supported with Win 7. $90 is not too much considering that the ColorMunki was $375, I think.

So does Spectraview Software profile the printer as well?



Nov 12, 2013 at 04:34 PM
howardm4
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


no.

you'll need to use the ColorMunki Software for the printer profiling.



Nov 12, 2013 at 05:24 PM
Norman my love
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


OK. I'll use the squarish ColroMunki hardware profiler / scanner that comes with ColorMunki Photo, to profile both and the 2 different softwares. Thanks for your help Howard.


Nov 12, 2013 at 07:58 PM
howardm4
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


that's the way g*d intended it

Oh, just do NOT be surprised when you calibrate the 2 displays to the same values (White, lumenince & contrast) that they WILL appear different. This then leads to a user standing there and mumbling 'WTF' ?



Nov 12, 2013 at 08:24 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · NEC Wide Gamut Monitor PA241W BK


howardm4 wrote:
that's the way g*d intended it

Oh, just do NOT be surprised when you calibrate the 2 displays to the same values (White, lumenince & contrast) that they WILL appear different. This then leads to a user standing there and mumbling 'WTF' ?


yup no way around that since primaries from different monitor types have different spectral spikes and you can't even apply a general compensation to make things 100% match (although some monitors have a metamerism toggle to try) since each person responds to various spectral spikes in slightly different ways so there is no single metamerism conversion function from one monitor type to anotehr type that will work perfectly for everyone

well there is a way around that all but you'd need to use a totally different type of color management that no commercial software uses and you'd need to use a very narrow band spectrophotometer as the measuring device



Nov 15, 2013 at 10:01 AM





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