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Archive 2013 · first attempt - night time girls soccer
  
 
gschlact
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · first attempt - night time girls soccer




First nighttime shooting attempt ever.

Handful of HS Girls soccer. 7D f2.8 EF70-200 mkII and ISO up to 12800, ambient light only.

Believe it or not, they actually came out better than I expected. Taken hiding under a blanket with 20mph winds. Would you have kept any of these?

1. 9614 Kaya
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-k34MXHg/0/L/IMG_9614_LR_300dpi-L.jpg


2. 9619 Dani
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-QFRSpzm/0/L/IMG_9619_LR_300dpi-L.jpg


3. 9621 Megan
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-FQ4xrBv/0/L/IMG_9621_LR_300dpi-L.jpg


4. 9626 Dani
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-TmkqfjH/0/L/IMG_9626_LR_300dpi-L.jpg


5. 9631 Kylie
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-snQRLjT/0/L/IMG_9631_LR_300dpi-L.jpg




Nov 05, 2013 at 11:53 PM
Caleb Williams
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Wow, looks like a total cave, well an outdoor cave at any rate.

It wasn't so long people couldn't shoot in lighting like this and these look like you're pushing the 7D's limits.

The first 3 and 5 I'd keep, but the 4th just looks out of focus and too much motion blur.

The first thing I'd do would be to use some type of noise reduction software. You may also want to underexpose and then bring back up in post, but that will make the noise worse than it already is.



Nov 06, 2013 at 04:19 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Noise is a bit more than I would have initially expected given some clean up in PP. What is your PP workflow used for these, Guy?

Matt



Nov 06, 2013 at 02:13 PM
jim bennett
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


I see some keepers, but they definitely look super noisy, which considering ISO 12800 isn't all that surprising. Was the lighting that low that you needed ISO 12800 to get a high enough shutter speed on these?


Nov 06, 2013 at 07:37 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


THanks for the responses.

Some additional info on the lighting and shot settings. This was acutal field lights (non stadium) so yes, to get 1/640 it required 12800 ISO and f2.8. With low expectations I actually didn't take that many more shots during the game and just watched as a parent.

Alll but the last 2 where actually shot underexposed by 2 1/3 stops (iso 3200 1/800 f2.8) and raised in Lightroom. I primarily relied on color NR (rare for me) but made sense given the underposure.

For the last two shots, they were shot at 12800 1/640 f2.8 and properly exposed. However on the 7D, 12800 setting is artificial and is actually 1 stop push of 6400 by the camara. They too got LR color NR with a small bit of Luminance NR.

My ability to add Liminance NR in all of these were greatly limited as the softness was already poor due to the noise from the underexposure lifting.

-Guy



Nov 06, 2013 at 10:50 PM
Aqualung
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Def a light cave, ouch. For me, #2 is cut off too much top and bottom....

Chris



Nov 07, 2013 at 02:47 AM
RubenL
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


I shoot a lot of games like these, with such a poor lightning.

I also got the advice to underexpose my pictures, and then bring them back to right exposure with lightroom/photoshop. but when i do that, i have the feeling the noise level just looks the same again. so i do not underexpose annymore.

Now, I tested a lot of programs for post production, and in good light, yea, lightroom and photoshop are wonderfull, for night photography my advice is DXO software. you have there the option for Prime noise reduction. It takes the computer a lot of time to render the image then, but i think it does a wonderfull job. compaired to lightroom, i can boost my ISO almoste 1 stop and get the same result. you can try them for 30 days. If i was you, I would give it a try. Nevertheless The other options you can do with the program i think are better in lightroom.

Okej, i know i used a other camera, but here you can see some pictures where i used prime noise reduction from DXO. schot at ISO 8000 and ISO 16000. (for a 7D it would be something like ISO 3200-4000 and 6400-8000 i guess)
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1252294



Nov 07, 2013 at 11:46 AM
 

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rolette
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


RubenL wrote:
I also got the advice to underexpose my pictures, and then bring them back to right exposure with lightroom/photoshop. but when i do that, i have the feeling the noise level just looks the same again. so i do not underexpose annymore.

As long as you aren't venturing into the "extended" ISO values (H1, H2, etc.), you want to nail the exposure in camera. You'll end up with less noise (and better detail) raising your ISO to get the SS you need than underexposing and fixing the exposure during post-processing.

If you need to go past the real ISO range of the sensor, then it is a different story and depends on how good your PP skills are. In the H* ISO values, the image is being digitally pushed in-camera. Very likely that your computer can get a much better result pushing the exposure than your camera. It has significantly more resources and time available to it than a camera trying to shoot at x fps.

Easy enough to test on your own as well. Shoot one period of a game where your exposures are "correct". Shoot the next period of the game with your ISO dropped down by 1 or 1.5 stops, keeping SS and aperture the same as the first period.

Process images from both periods to where you normally would and compare the IQ of the two periods. It should be pretty obvious assuming the lighting at the game was low enough that this matters (ie., none of this matters if you are shooting at ISO 400).

Jay



Nov 07, 2013 at 01:20 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Ruben / Jay - thanks for commenting.

I tend to agree that you typically want to get exposure correct in-camera versus the underexpose suggestions. This is especially true for the Canon 7D. However, compare images 2 and 5 above, 2 is at 3200 ISO but raised 2 1/3 stops in LR, and 5 was properly exposed at H1 ISO 12800. Does one seem to have more detail than the other? They were both about 85% of original frame.

Given the ability to Mask with Sharpening and/or NR, I do think that under exposing and raising in Post will warrent more consideration. Unfortunately, NR in LightRoom doesn't let you Mask ;-( only sharppening seems to have the Masking which makes me first do NR, then excess sharpening to remove softness from NR with MASK so that non edges and background keep the NR. DOES anyone actually know of a way to Mask NR in LR ?? (Luminance NR primarily

Guy



Nov 07, 2013 at 03:47 PM
rolette
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


gschlact wrote:
I tend to agree that you typically want to get exposure correct in-camera versus the underexpose suggestions. This is especially true for the Canon 7D. However, compare images 2 and 5 above, 2 is at 3200 ISO but raised 2 1/3 stops in LR, and 5 was properly exposed at H1 ISO 12800. Does one seem to have more detail than the other? They were both about 85% of original frame.


Do you have any that you shot at ISO 6400? With the 7D requiring H1 to get to ISO 12800, you are past the sensor's native ISO range so my advice not to underexpose doesn't necessarily apply.

Given the ability to Mask with Sharpening and/or NR, I do think that under exposing and raising in Post will warrent more consideration. Unfortunately, NR in LightRoom doesn't let you Mask ;-( only sharppening seems to have the Masking which makes me first do NR, then excess sharpening to remove softness from NR with MASK so that non edges and background keep the NR. DOES anyone actually know of a way to Mask NR in LR ?? (Luminance NR primarily

Not sure it will get you everything you are looking for, but you can use the Adjustment Brush to apply localized NR in LR5.



Nov 07, 2013 at 07:42 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Jay - for some dumb reason, I never thought to look at the Adjustment Brush to see if it had NR in LR 4. It does!~ If I get a chance, I'll try to post process one of these again.

I also hear you about the H1 settting of 12800 not being fair comparison of non-native to native ISO underexposed.

Guy



Nov 07, 2013 at 08:03 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


Jay -
I reprocessed #2 from above using Adjustment brush: two different NRs, 1 different Sharpening. both are below second version followed by first version for convenience. The new version came out quite a bit sharper on the bodies and NR was equal or better too. Not sure if you will be able to see it?
Guy

VERSION 2 9619 LR2
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-Qvz87D4/0/XL/IMG_9619_LR2-XL.jpg

Version 1 (from above original post) 9619
http://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Jamie/2013-Lightning-GU17-Soccer/i-QFRSpzm/0/XL/IMG_9619_LR_300dpi-XL.jpg




Nov 07, 2013 at 10:48 PM
rolette
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · first attempt - night time girls soccer


I can definitely tell the difference between the two shots. The 2nd version isn't as flat - better contrast, quite a bit more saturation and sharper. The 2nd version is also quite a bit noisier than the first. Maybe shoot for somewhere between the two?


Nov 08, 2013 at 12:50 PM





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