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3D.Doug
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p.1 #1 · buy and sell # of active posts


Do you guys think it's fair for one person to be bumping 8-10 ads on the main page of the buy and sell under one brand? Not usually combining a listing

I think it's not fair because they bump a lot of people out of their way when they come through with their BIG bumps. Ok, only 8 as a group and a couple of others spread out. But come on, 8 bumps in a row

Is this a commercial type seller abusing personal sales, or what? I am all for fair chance, and equity, but I am also about consideration, anf fairness to fellow FMers.

Rant off.



Nov 05, 2013 at 07:29 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #2 · buy and sell # of active posts


Not a rant, IMHO. Good questions, Doug.


Nov 05, 2013 at 07:41 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #3 · buy and sell # of active posts


Resellers have pretty much taken over the B&S. Sad to see this happen.


Nov 05, 2013 at 08:03 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #4 · buy and sell # of active posts


Indeed, Will, indeed


Nov 05, 2013 at 08:32 PM
mitesh
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p.1 #5 · buy and sell # of active posts


trenchmonkey wrote:
Resellers have pretty much taken over the B&S. Sad to see this happen.


What some of the new resellers may find is that there are a limited number of people in the market for $1900 lenses at a given time. Combine that with the fact that these sellers want buyers to pay additional fees (reducing the difference between resold/refurb/new prices), and that they're competing not only against other resellers on this and other sites, but big retailers and even Canon themselves on occasion. All of that will squeeze resale margins and make it harder to make a decent profit.



Nov 05, 2013 at 08:40 PM
Guari
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p.1 #6 · buy and sell # of active posts


Do you have a link of what you are talking about?


Nov 05, 2013 at 08:51 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #7 · buy and sell # of active posts


Go to the B&S board and scroll through it. Check out the names of persons (dealers?) who have multiple item listings sequenced back to back.


Nov 05, 2013 at 09:08 PM
3D.Doug
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p.1 #8 · buy and sell # of active posts


I have seen some of them over time Anthony. It was actually one that called my attention to this again today in Nikon. There's another one I didn't look for today but is usually here. Well, if you have 2 or 3 of these guys, they can command 15-20 listings on page 1!

That's really simple Will to slow it down, management just needs to put some guidelines on them to slow them down. They either adhere to them, or they get their memberships deleted. Of course, nobody probably wants to be the one to take the time to enforce it I guess.

Maybe to management they are something to attract new members, I don't know.

I'm just a guy trying to sell something now and again to buy more toys. I play by the rules, and watch people abuse what I think should be rules anyway, whether they are rules or not.




Nov 05, 2013 at 09:10 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #9 · buy and sell # of active posts


There is at least one algorithm to pick out the resellers: very large # of Great feedbacks, large # of posts virtually all of which (if not all) are B&S related. No contributions to any of the Photo boards, no pictures posted, no apparent contributions to the rest of FM, save for the fact that they sell their gear here. But hey, they pay their B&S fee and that of course permits them to B&S what they wish. So long as they do it honestly and folks are satisfied with their purchases, apart from those who get "bumped" into the cellar, Fred is unlikely to intervene.


Nov 05, 2013 at 09:20 PM
3D.Doug
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p.1 #10 · buy and sell # of active posts


Fred or someone seems to have some good programming skills for things here Anthony. It's really pretty simple, just limit the number of active buy and sell transactions that a person can have over a period of time? Or limit the number active at once? something to slow this practice down. I for one, WANT TO KNOW if I am buying from a business! I think it is their responsibility to declare themselves as such, and let us know we are buying traded in gear, not their own personal gear. This is not an unreasonable thing to know.

A commercial seller should be identified as such in the very least. Cloaking oneself as an individual here should not be tolerated. Your identifying characteristics described are quite accurate. It is not very hard to spot them.

It is my practice not to buy from them. honestly. That is once I figure out what they are.



Nov 05, 2013 at 10:12 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



trenchmonkey
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p.1 #11 · buy and sell # of active posts


and let us know we are buying traded in gear, not their own personal gear. This is not an unreasonable thing to know.

This is it in a nutshell. Used to be a sense of community on the B&S, our loss.
At least KEH gives us a warranty on used (traded in) glass.



Nov 05, 2013 at 10:29 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #12 · buy and sell # of active posts


Doug, I for one appreciate your raising the issue. I have for some time had in the back of mind the question "who are these guys selling this stuff; they sure must own a bunch of gear." Your post answered the question. My next purchase here will be accompanied by the question "how many owners before you?" Furthermore, since it appears reasonably obvious that there are several members here acting as major resellers, it now raises the question for me "how do I know the reseller has legal title to sell the gear?" KEH requires that I sign the electronic equivalent of an affidavit that I own what I'm selling to them and that each item is unencumbered.

You betcha, Will...



Nov 05, 2013 at 10:38 PM
ronfronberg
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p.1 #13 · buy and sell # of active posts


I always thought that a reseller is a commercial seller and the site is to be for your own equipment as "Commercial sales are not allowed" according to the buy sell rules.


Nov 06, 2013 at 12:19 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #14 · buy and sell # of active posts


We could always self monitor Ya know, post on the thread "commercial reseller...proceed at own risk"


Nov 06, 2013 at 12:23 AM
3D.Doug
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p.1 #15 · buy and sell # of active posts


Ron, according to most forums terms and use clauses, it would be a violation. It probably is here too, but there's just no enforcement mechanism. IMO, a simple limitation of bumping to a maximum of 3 to 5 ads in a 24 hour period should be implented. That means, a reseller with 10 ads, has to chose which ads he bumps in a 24 hour period, or at a minumum, he has to group his listings better. I think this is a reasonable request for the forum to implement something along these lines. I think most regular members would approve of this. I know I would.

I have seen some people directly confront seller issues. I'm not near so confrontational usually, and find these things tend to just upset me to much to deal with.

Will has a lot of sales, but as far as I know, it's just because he's a nut when it comes to gear. lol There are a few others I have wondered about, but never truly questioned them. But some of these guys I know are resellers, plain and clear.

I don't have as much issue of them selling here, as I do them violating good conduct and member codes. To me, someone having 10 listings on one branded main page, is way over the top for what is acceptable use of a individual account. They've created what amounts to a DISPLAY size ad, when they keep all their listings together, and they are not paying the forum for it.



Nov 07, 2013 at 12:13 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #16 · buy and sell # of active posts


Will has a lot of sales, but as far as I know, it's just because he's a nut when it comes to gear.
Guilty. 30 yrs w/Canon...switched about 6 yrs ago to Nikon. I usually have 1/2 a dozen bodies and a dozen or
so lenses at any given time since I started making money with my index finger. I'm one for buying and trying
rather than trust reviews of people that don't shoot like me. I've gone thru a LOT of gear but have settled in
to a happy place over the last year or so. The B&S doesn't see much of me these days, but my rep's intact.



Nov 07, 2013 at 12:26 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #17 · buy and sell # of active posts


And pretty easy to see your contribution to the site, Will, with the incredible photos you post up quite regularly together with the advice you provide to members, both on the forum as well as PM. So your GREAT feedbacks take their rightful place amongst your credentials here. Now... time for a really, really COLD micro,


Nov 07, 2013 at 12:37 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #18 · buy and sell # of active posts


3D.Doug wrote:
But some of these guys I know are resellers, plain and clear.

I don't have as much issue of them selling here, as I do them violating good conduct and member codes. To me, someone having 10 listings on one branded main page, is way over the top for what is acceptable use of a individual account. They've created what amounts to a DISPLAY size ad, when they keep all their listings together, and they are not paying the forum for it.


^^^^^ +1



Nov 07, 2013 at 12:40 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #19 · buy and sell # of active posts


As someone wrote, commercial sales are not allowed per forum rules. However it's getting increasingly harder to moderate and enforce this rule.
Someone could be a commercial seller and disguise himself as photographer selling their own gear.

Perhaps there is something we could do code-wise.
Suggestions are welcome. I'm all ears.
Fred



Nov 07, 2013 at 02:37 AM
3D.Doug
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p.1 #20 · buy and sell # of active posts


Let me think about it some Fred. I am a developer as well, so therefore, I think like a programmer. :-)

But generally, I think as far as non-selective enforcement. Meaning, a general rule that can be applied to all user accounts, so it doesn't require policing and enforcement. I would tend to think most of us would agree, that a personal user only having buy/sell threads totaling 5 or less allowed to be bumped in a 24 hour period would be a reasonable algorithm to slow down the many many posts some of these guys are running through the forum. I saw one that had at least 10 when I started this thread.

I've long been sensitive to this issue of multple posts, even among individual users and bumps for the sake of marking something sold even. Anything that goes against the consideration of others.

However, for purposes of this thread, I believe limiting active thread "bumps in a 24 hour period to no more than 5 total would slow a lot of stuff down.

What do you think guys?

Thanks for weighing in Fred.

Doug




Nov 07, 2013 at 04:44 AM
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