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Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing ca...
  
 
Avi B
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p.2 #1 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Mmm the Nikon Df allows the use of non-AI lenses...



Nov 04, 2013 at 09:57 PM
molson
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p.2 #2 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


omarlyn wrote:
What's wrong with a "retro case"? Have you ever used an old OM4-T? Tons of electronics, dials & switches, more rugged yet smaller than even the smallest FF DSLR and with a viewfinder SO big, you can actually step inside of it! I wouldn't mind having that!

Omar


That's why I still have my OM-1 and OM-4Ti...



Nov 04, 2013 at 10:01 PM
tuantran
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p.2 #3 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


In the near future, Canon will come out with a retro DSLR that looks like a Camcorder of the 80's. Imagine someone carrying that around.

As I am writing this reply, I am holding a Nikon F3 without the motor drive. It's very awkward to hold but small like the SL1.



Nov 04, 2013 at 10:18 PM
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p.2 #4 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


I can think of some truly awful bodies in recent times, not just in terms of aesthetics but also function. So honestly I'm reasonably glad that Canon has remained conservative in this respect.


Nov 05, 2013 at 01:17 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.2 #5 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


popinvasion wrote:
I am

A little innovation is not a bad thing


Well, at least it is something cool. Canon has not been coming out with any exciting products. They have not come out with a revolutionary DSLR for many years. Very very boring.

Sony has some amazing new cameras and Nikon has come out with a few unique products as well.



Nov 05, 2013 at 01:34 AM
Ektar25
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p.2 #6 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Yes, let's all hope Canon doesn't bring back that "Eye-controlled focusing" BS.


Nov 05, 2013 at 01:37 AM
Pavel
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p.2 #7 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


A nikon F3Hp fits my hands, and brain, like a well worn and loved glove.

If I still shot Canon, I'd be pretty unhappy right about now. Even if I didn't want a camera like the new Df, it sure is nice to be with a brand that provides choices, and seems to have progressive ideas - even if aspects gestated in the seventies.

At this point if you shoot Nikon you can have the D610 or D800 styling, or the D4 full size body, if that is your kind of thing. Both brands provide these paradigms and truly it hardly maters which you go with as they are so close as to be a yawn. The same goes, in my not so humble opinion of lenses. both companies do modern autofocus behemoth lenses supremely well. Flip a coin and run with it.

But if you hate the design choices of the modern digital gestalt - you are out of luck with Canon. For the meanwhile, anyways.

The modern shooters seem mostly still to consider more to be more ... and extra even better. Thus it saddens me that people can't even relate to others who's views and priorities are different. You could NOT give me a D800 (well, unless I could turn around and sell it ) The D800 would be an immense drawback for my values. But it is a blessing for some. Choices is good. Choice is always good!

It is not retro. Not retro the way some seem to think of it as, as in retro for retro's sake. Simply a choice in how to function and flow with a camera. I can work with a Leica or an F3, but I feel limited by the controls on all my past Canon, Olympus and Nikons. I don't hate them, but it is fair to say that I greatly prefer external controls, and the layout that had served photographers well for thirty years.

Yeah, it is good to have choices.

But I'm sure Canon will catch up, if the product is safely successful in the next year. That's what true leadership and innovation is all about, with some companies.



Nov 05, 2013 at 01:44 AM
OwlsEyes
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p.2 #8 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Does the Df really represent innovation or just a parlor trick? Retro bodies are a fad, so Nikon was able to capitalize on preexisting designs to "retrofit" a D610 into a new body with a top-plate that resembles an FM2/FE2. Having lived with retro cameras since my introduction to SLR's in 1979 beginning with a Pentax MX, I've got to say that the gear I have now is better than the history of equipment that I once owned. The list of 35mm SLR's, Rangefinders, and Medium format gear that has walked through my doors would read like a wiki on film cameras.

My last film bodies were a Contax RTS III, Contax S2, and Leica CL. All of these were a pleasure to hold and fun to shoot, but none of these bodies could hold a candle to my current gear. People ask… where's the innovation? Let's face it, the current Canon line up is pretty solid. The top bodies are fast and accurate and produce better pictures in competent hands than most of us could shoot on a regular basis. If this statement were not accurate, the professional community would have abandoned Canon by now (much like they abandoned Nikon in the early 2000's).

While retro bodies are fun to shoot once in a while (I own a black X100), they are not as responsive, intuitive or ergonomically comfortable as the venerable EOS line. I'm no apologist for Canon, but after hiking 3 miles to a river and finding an owl perched in a tree, I'll grab my Canon 5DIII or 7D w/ my IS lenses any day and know that I can get the shot… The good news is that there are lots of options, and just because you enjoy Canon for one aspect of your photography doesn't mean that you are married to it. It's not cheating to go out with your Fuji, Sony, or (dare I say) Nikon once in a while.

2 c's offered,
bruce



Nov 05, 2013 at 02:14 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #9 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Screw fashion. I want a camera that will last - like the Nikon FM. I know we are in a different realm - that of electronics - but give just me a responsive camera with quality IQ and an amazing build.


Nov 05, 2013 at 02:16 AM
galenapass
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p.2 #10 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Paul Mo wrote:
Screw fashion. I want a camera that will last - like the Nikon FM. I know we are in a different realm - that of electronics - but give just me a responsive camera with quality IQ and an amazing build.


+1

I still have my Nikon FM, and it shoots as well now that I am 48 as it did when it arrived at my doorstep when I was 12. I really like this new Nikon. Fad, well maybe to some but I also like late 60's corvettes. One man's trash is another's treasure, and one man's "fad" is another's classic yet enduring design. That, and the sensor is likely to kick some butt.



Nov 05, 2013 at 02:42 AM
 

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Pavel
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p.2 #11 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Bruce, you raise a good set of points, except the notion that your preferences are everyone else's too.
I have a D3 and kept an old D200 for, mostly now, shooting photos of my cats. But in most cases I find all the canon and Nikon modern era controls as mild step backwards ...and the modern lenses, while very good (when you pay the top dollars that good glass demands) are one sided. The AF lenses are huge beasts compared to the older MF versions.

Now I like AF, just like the next guy, but on some days (many in fact) I will take my tradeoffs in a different direction, if I can. Up to now it has meant shooting film. Now I like film very much, but after today, I have fewer limitations. I can lug around my monster sized stuff just like yesterday, but what I could not do yesterday is lug around a smaller camera that is at home more with the smaller lighter less intrusive MF glass. Now I can.

And the cost? 2,800? Compare that to the cost of glass. That is where the losses are. How come people line up to be lightened by Lens dollars and chalk it up to the cost of doing business, and them moan and groan over the difference in the expected 2,500 versus 2,750 dollars. I don't get it.

I have, btw, a large collection of MF Nikon glass. Nine lenses bought for less than the price of one modern lens, like the new Noct 1.4 slow focus wonder.

This announcement if for folks like me. But yeah, not for everyone. But it is not retro for retro's sake that is the lure. I have found that every Mirrorless body so far (and I have had many) is not responsive enough for my wishes. They are decent, but not comparable to SLR's ... yet. I like that and expect the Df to be closer to a D3 in that way than some little mirrorless pocket imposter.

The question I have, and that is one that makes all the difference is if the manual focus details have been paid proper attention to, or is it just enough to have a nice blurb in a glossy brochure. That, as far as I'm concerned, hinges around whether Nikon has gone all the way and either put in a coarse screen which with we can see focus snap in, or best yet, do they give choices of a split screen. I hope it is the choice of screens. That will make this body the most sought after digital since digital - to me.

Otherwise, I will likely still buy it, but will consider it a "contenda" that coulda been, but hit the floor in the ninth.

Keeping my fingers crossed.



Nov 05, 2013 at 02:47 AM
galenapass
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p.2 #12 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


That old (yet good!) Nikon glass should be a real pleasure to use on the new Df. The tactile feel and fit to the hands I hope will be like a comfortable shoe. Look at the add,. Here is a guy not out shooting sports, but taking some slow methodical shots of some great architecture. This is the type of shooting/photographer that the camera is aimed at. If you don't have some AI or AIS glass, chances are you wont get what this is all about.


Nov 05, 2013 at 02:55 AM
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p.2 #13 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Looks like Nikon will be parting alot of hipster photogs from thier greenbacks.....


Nov 05, 2013 at 03:04 AM
deepbluejh
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p.2 #14 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Why would you be happy that Canon is not giving you a certain camera? Seems to me like having more options would be better than fewer options.

If not, I guess Sony will come to our rescue and provide us with something innovative while Canon keeps pumping out the same cameras it's been making for the past decade.

This thread reads like sour grapes to me.



Nov 05, 2013 at 03:40 AM
popinvasion
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p.2 #15 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


deepbluejh wrote:
Why would you be happy that Canon is not giving you a certain camera? Seems to me like having more options would be better than fewer options.

If not, I guess Sony will come to our rescue and provide us with something innovative while Canon keeps pumping out the same cameras it's been making for the past decade.

This thread reads like sour grapes to me.


Quite the opposite.



Nov 05, 2013 at 03:50 AM
Harold Carlson
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p.2 #16 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


It's coming...Canon is always last to the party these days.


Nov 05, 2013 at 03:52 AM
Joe Garner
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p.2 #17 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


I don't see a problem with that - Nikon FM was an amazing camera, and if Nikon can sell a few more cameras by styling a body after it - more power to them. FWIW, I used to own an FA and it was a marvel, pure joy to hold and use.


Nov 05, 2013 at 04:44 AM
Mescalamba
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p.2 #18 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Yea, I think its "wait and see" kinda case.

"Retro" is where money are these days. Fujifilm literally lives from that. Although in their case I would be happier if they sticked for once just with plain old boring Bayer CFA.



Nov 05, 2013 at 04:55 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #19 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?




Mescalamba wrote:
I would be happier if they sticked for once just with plain old boring Bayer CFA.


Indeed.




Nov 05, 2013 at 04:59 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #20 · Who is happy that Canon is not repackaging an existing camera into a retro case?


Ok camera is out and I don't get it. Here is a snippet of an interview with Nikon about the Df that is very revealing!

Q: I see this camera uses a 16MP sensor, from the flagship D4, so this must be a flagship sensor too.
A: No actually the sensors of the D610 and D800 are much better according to DxO
Q: Ah but this low res must allow this camera to shoot very fast, 10fps or better.
A: No, actually it shoots at 5.5fps slower than our D610
Q: Hmm, but it must have class leading shutter speed, 1/16000
A: No, actually it same as our entry level cameras at 1/4000
Q: Ummm, err, oh yeah, well it must have the flagship AF system right
A: No, actually it has same AF as D5300 and D610, middle of the road
Q: Ah, but it must have old school battery life and run forever out in the wilds
A: No, actually it has a very small battery with below average number of shots
Q: Well it must be very cheap then, cheaper than D610?
A: No, actually it is much dearer.
Q: Ok, then what is the point of this camera?
A: To get old farts to part with a lot of money to relive old time memories.




Nov 05, 2013 at 05:13 AM
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