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Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?
  
 
turnstyle
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p.3 #1 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Thanks for pointing me to your set of similar photos taken with the M9.

Yikes, ignoring the different light and (I assume) in-camera corrections from the M9 (eg, assuming vignetting correction).

The M9 looks quite a lot stronger.

I forget where you stand on this -- some suggest that perfect infinity focus matters for the Lux, though others seem to think otherwise -- anyhow, if you ever wind up with an M-to-E adapter that nails infinity, it would be interesting to see how much of a role the adapter plays.

Just curious: what make of M-to-E adapter are you using?

Lastly, would obviously be very interesting to see if A7r cleans up those corners to come closer to M9!



Nov 13, 2013 at 05:33 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #2 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


I used the Novoflex adapter.

My stand on the whole correct infinity focus thing is we need actual tests from a few sources to verify whether it's a real factor in these results. Based on how floating element systems have been marketed by some brands as 'close range correction' it implies to me it's a more significant influence on image quality at nearer distances.

In that thread there is also a recent link to this Korean forum. It's an image at f/5.6 shot with the 50 Cron (not sure which version). Edges look pretty good to me, though perhaps slightly imperfect. The only way to know if even better results are possible would be to shoot the same lens/scene on the M9 or M240. I doubt the difference will be significant in this case.

See this post by Robert (Bijltje) in that thread, a page or two earlier from my post, about the Leica lenses he tried on the a7R.



Nov 13, 2013 at 05:54 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #3 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Until I see those tests, I'm going to cruise on the power of hope and positive thinking...


Nov 13, 2013 at 07:33 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #4 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Hi,

Sorry this is going to sound lame, but I can't for the life of me find the charger for the NEX, and the battery is dead. I took some images using the M240 though, and I REALLY REALLY don't notice a performance loss in the mid-zone.

I have a theory, so hear me out, and anyone who cares to chime in, go for it..
So, even though the Nex is a crop sensor camera, maybe M-lenses are still coming in at a sharp enough angle that it's screwing with the images (as in, the sensor in the nex has no microlenses??) I know this is far fetched because it's a 50mm we're talking about, and on a crop that's like a pretty straight path to the sensor... But could that be the issue?

BTW do you want to see those M240 shots?



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:26 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #5 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Ron posted some shots of the same cityscape, but with the Lux on his M9 -- and the Lux was clearly better. I'm hoping that either the adapter might have been funky, and/or that performance will be better on a7r. I'm really hoping Lux 50 will perform fairly similarly as it does on M9 with the new Sony backs...


Nov 15, 2013 at 05:47 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #6 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


adamdewilde wrote:
Hi,

Sorry this is going to sound lame, but I can't for the life of me find the charger for the NEX, and the battery is dead. I took some images using the M240 though, and I REALLY REALLY don't notice a performance loss in the mid-zone.

I have a theory, so hear me out, and anyone who cares to chime in, go for it..
So, even though the Nex is a crop sensor camera, maybe M-lenses are still coming in at a sharp enough angle that it's screwing with the images (as in, the sensor in the nex has no microlenses??) I
...Show more

Microlenses help with sensitivity and vignetting, but it's the sensor toppings that are the culprit, when it comes to smearing. I've seen some users tear down a couple of the Nex cameras, and Sony doesn't seem to even be using consistent sensor topping arrangements among various models, and I'd imagine that's why the Nex cameras vary so much with the smearing.

Either way, Sony would have to proactively design a sensor stack that behaves wonderfully with M lenses, if one expects m240 performance with M lenses, and I don't see that happening. The GXR M module is much sharper across the frame than even the 5N in any of the comparisons I've seen, and I wouldn't be surprised if even the 50 lux has a bit of smearing on the 5N. The 50 Summicron could potentially have less of an issue, I'd guess.



Nov 15, 2013 at 06:01 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #7 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Is there a prevailing best guess as to whether the a7r sensor toppings will help -- or hurt -- with regard to corner smear as compared to a7?


Nov 15, 2013 at 06:23 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #8 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


turnstyle wrote:
Is there a prevailing best guess as to whether the a7r sensor toppings will help -- or hurt -- with regard to corner smear as compared to a7?


Not yet. Even though removing the AA is a potential step in the right direction, we still don't know if the sensor topping design will work well with rangefinder lenses. It'll take some time and a lot of testing.

As for color shift, it seems that the A7r's offset micro lenses, while better for sensitivity, are causing more noticeable color shift than the A7, from what I've seen so far. Leica gets around this with software correction in-camera.



Nov 15, 2013 at 08:28 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #9 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Thanks, fingers remain crossed for a7r!


Nov 15, 2013 at 09:18 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #10 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Not sure if you've seen these links yet, posted over in the a7/a7R RF WA thread

I think something is not right because the 50 Lux ASPH looks terrible (along with every fast lens), way worse than what I got on the a7. It has been speculated he may have used hard-stop infinity, which we all know is problematic with the adapters because they allow focusing past infinity... or his adapter is a dud...



Nov 16, 2013 at 12:32 AM
 

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adamdewilde
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p.3 #11 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


douglasf13 wrote:
Microlenses help with sensitivity and vignetting, but it's the sensor toppings that are the culprit, when it comes to smearing. I've seen some users tear down a couple of the Nex cameras, and Sony doesn't seem to even be using consistent sensor topping arrangements among various models, and I'd imagine that's why the Nex cameras vary so much with the smearing.

Either way, Sony would have to proactively design a sensor stack that behaves wonderfully with M lenses, if one expects m240 performance with M lenses, and I don't see that happening. The GXR M module is much sharper across
...Show more

Ok but in the OPs case, he's using a crop camera, so I'm just wondering is the way the light hits the sensor causing corner softness? Since really I find it odd that my M240 does a better job throughout the whole frame.



Nov 16, 2013 at 11:19 AM
turnstyle
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p.3 #12 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Yeah, those new Flickr sets were a big bummer -- I'm losing hope, but I haven't totally packed it in yet.

What I don't really get is -- why wouldn't Sony *want* their camera to work well with small high-quality lenses?

Meaning: I know Sony doesn't care about selling Leica lenses -- but why wouldn't Sony want to offer similarly-small and high IQ lenses, as they seem so well-suited to the small bodies.

I might now wait a year, see what happens with a7/a7r, and what the Zeiss manual FE lenses turn out to be...



Nov 16, 2013 at 02:04 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #13 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?




adamdewilde wrote:
Ok but in the OPs case, he's using a crop camera, so I'm just wondering is the way the light hits the sensor causing corner softness? Since really I find it odd that my M240 does a better job throughout the whole frame.


I found the same with my M9 compared to my Nex cameras, and I'm guessing that it is still a bit of a problem, even at the smart sensor size. That's why I don't have a lot of hope with many lenses for a larger sensor version of Nex.



Nov 16, 2013 at 02:08 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #14 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


turnstyle wrote:
Yeah, those new Flickr sets were a big bummer -- I'm losing hope, but I haven't totally packed it in yet.

What I don't really get is -- why wouldn't Sony *want* their camera to work well with small high-quality lenses?

Meaning: I know Sony doesn't care about selling Leica lenses -- but why wouldn't Sony want to offer similarly-small and high IQ lenses, as they seem so well-suited to the small bodies.

I might now wait a year, see what happens with a7/a7r, and what the Zeiss manual FE lenses turn out to be...



Sony wants to sell it's own lenses, and it's "partners" lenses.. Making it harder for ppl to make lenses, means they sell more.



Nov 16, 2013 at 07:10 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #15 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Sure, but why wouldn't Sony want to make and sell small & high IQ rangefinder style lenses?

Wouldn't pretty much everybody prefer that form factor lens on mirrorless bodies?



Nov 16, 2013 at 10:50 PM
adamdewilde
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p.3 #16 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


Oh, why wouldn't they *MAKE*....

Most ppl who buy the A7 will have no idea what they're doing. Sony makes autofocus lenses to please the 70% who are completely clueless and just buy first and learn photography after.. So as long as Sony sticks to a relatively small lens size, the majority will be happy. And BTW relatively small can sometimes mean pretty big, a lot of the masses see big lenses and think high quality.

Zeiss will probably fill the gap with specialty lenses, especially since they already own patents to a ton of these types of lenses.






Nov 17, 2013 at 06:19 AM
JimBuchanan
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p.3 #17 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


turnstyle wrote:
I might now wait a year, see what happens with a7/a7r, and what the Zeiss manual FE lenses turn out to be...


Just curious, do you actually own a 50 Summilux ASPH?



Nov 17, 2013 at 06:27 AM
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p.3 #18 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


No 'probably' about it, Adam. Two ranges, the likely to be special manual focus line and the FE Sony-promulgated line.

Sony have no set against era M lenses working in their new cameras, if they could make them all go great, Sony would sell many more cameras! Since M lenses cost the earth and are manual, this user group is very much an outlier to the a7/a7r target audience. They are the one percent market, quite literally.

Zeiss need no protection racket from Sony configuring its sensors away from M-friendliness to avoid competition from M lenses, they also produced ZMs and have competed with Leica since your grandad's youth. I agree with Ron and some others, there is too much fog around until they get into the hands of careful users like he and others here.




Nov 17, 2013 at 06:45 AM
turnstyle
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p.3 #19 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


JimBuchanan wrote:
Just curious, do you actually own a 50 Summilux ASPH?


Had one for a few weeks, but there were too many questions about performance, and decided to return. (Could have been an issue with adapter, or the mid-range dip on crop, or maybe nothing was wrong).

I'm still hoping the 50 Lux will be shown to perform on a7r as it does on M, and I'll jump back in again.



Nov 17, 2013 at 01:20 PM
turnstyle
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p.3 #20 · Is there something wrong with this Lux 50 ASPH?


philip_pj wrote:
No 'probably' about it, Adam. Two ranges, the likely to be special manual focus line and the FE Sony-promulgated line.

Sony have no set against era M lenses working in their new cameras, if they could make them all go great, Sony would sell many more cameras! Since M lenses cost the earth and are manual, this user group is very much an outlier to the a7/a7r target audience. They are the one percent market, quite literally.

Zeiss need no protection racket from Sony configuring its sensors away from M-friendliness to avoid competition from M lenses, they also produced ZMs
...Show more

I think it's much more likely that Sony would attract Leica customers to a Sony body (assuming it played nice with M lenses), than Leica would attract Sony customers to Leica lenses.



Nov 17, 2013 at 01:22 PM
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