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MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs
  
 
thw2
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p.1 #1 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


Based on CIPA worldwide camera shipment numbers from here, this is the trend observed:

a) In 2012, for every unit of MILC shipped, 4.1 units of DSLR are shipped.
From Jan-Aug 2013, for every unit MILC shipped, 4.9 units of DSLR are shipped.

b) When the numbers (shipment ratio of DSLR:MILC) are analyzed on a regional level:

Japan 1.25 (2012), 1.8 (till Aug 2013)
Americas 6.75 (2012), 9.9 (till Aug 2013)
Europe 5.5 (2012), 9.6 (till Aug 2013)
Asia 3.44 (2012), 3.37 (till Aug 2013)
The rest 2.3 (2012), 3.8 (till Aug 2013)

Appears that sales of MILCs are losing steam quite rapidly in America and Europe. Even within Japan, there is a loss of interest in MILCs!

Perhaps Sony is making a mistake with the release of the A7 and A7r...



Oct 30, 2013 at 03:00 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #2 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


Although I could guess what MILCs are but what do MILCs actually stand for?


Oct 30, 2013 at 03:25 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #3 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


Mirrorless interchangeable lens camera


Oct 30, 2013 at 03:56 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #4 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


As a fairly experienced photographer I've helped several friends and family members choose new cameras and they end up either upgrading to a new smartphone with a better camera because they don't need great IQ for posting photos online or they tend to "feel more comfortable" with a DSLR. Most of this feeling is based on their familiarity with SLRs and that a DSLR represents what they envision as a "real camera." To the untrained, MILCs seem like toys and are quirky. American consumers are sometimes hard to convince when it comes to change.
Also the best MILCs are expensive compared to the lower-end DSLRs, so they see more value in the latter.
I love my Oly OMD as a supplement to my big Canon gear, but I have invested much more money then my friends are willing to spend.

So I understand why the numbers are lopsided, but the amount is surprising.



Oct 30, 2013 at 04:10 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #5 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


I am not surprised about this. I wouldn't have bothered looking into one of those mirrorless cameras either. For me simply because I wouldn't like to go back to a cropped sensor camera. That's why the Sony A7(R) is a big game changer - first in its class with this kind of sensor plus interchangable lenses. But it is just the first model - there will be soon more hitting the market for sure. Now I can see that people will buy more mirrorless cameras than before.


Oct 30, 2013 at 04:35 PM
stargazer78
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p.1 #6 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


retrofocus wrote:
That's why the Sony A7(R) is a big game changer - first in its class with this kind of sensor plus interchangable lenses.



The Sony A7(R) is a big "game changer"? That remains to be seen.

Right now, hardly any of its lenses are smaller than their SLR counterparts. In fact, only the Zeiss 24-70 f4.0 is smaller. The 35 f2.8, 50 f1.8, and 70-200 f4.0 are all bigger and heavier than their EF equivalents. What's the point of having a small body when the lens size remains the same? If anything, the small body will just handle poorly with the big lenses.

Perhaps Sony can eventually introduce lenses that demonstrate the size benefits of a mirrorless full frame system. Or perhaps they can't. Maybe these lenses had to be large just to compensate for the problematic short flange distances of MILCs.

The Sony A7 might eventually prove to be a game-changer. But right now, it's looking more like an illusion. The tiny body distracts people from noticing that the lenses are hardly any smaller than SLR lenses.



Oct 30, 2013 at 05:31 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #7 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


I agree that once you go full frame, the crop sensors are not so tempting unless a small sized system is a primary factor. But most of those numbers are represented by crop DSLRs. Full frame is still a small portion of the market.


Oct 30, 2013 at 05:34 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #8 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


retrofocus wrote:
That's why the Sony A7(R) is a big game changer - first in its class with this kind of sensor plus interchangable lenses.


stargazer78 wrote:
The Sony A7(R) is a big "game changer"? That remains to be seen.

Right now, hardly any of its lenses are smaller than their SLR counterparts. In fact, only the Zeiss 24-70 f4.0 is smaller. The 35 f2.8, 50 f1.8, and 70-200 f4.0 are all bigger and heavier than their EF equivalents. What's the point of having a small body when the lens size remains the same? If anything, the small body will just handle poorly with the big lenses.

Perhaps Sony can eventually introduce lenses that demonstrate the size benefits of a mirrorless full frame system. Or perhaps they can't.
...Show more

Good point! The more I think about the merit of this camera the less the chance I will jump on the early bandwagon. I may sit on the sideline for a while although I am on a pre-order list somewhere .



Oct 30, 2013 at 05:46 PM
amacal1
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p.1 #9 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


I'm thinking about how many people I know with DSLRs. I know more of them who just wanted a "professional camera" than those who actually knew what they were buying.

I think that's the biggest pull for DSLRs. I believe most people who buy them don't even know how to fully utilize what they the camera is capable of, much less even know what it is capable of. Specs and charts and lens selections become kind of meaningless in that situation.

A lot of MILCs are styled and advertised towards "laymen", for lack of a better word, but priced as high as entry level DSLRs. I think some people get the attitude that if they're going to spend that kind of money, they'll just buy the "pro camera."




Oct 30, 2013 at 06:00 PM
joakim
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p.1 #10 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


That's one way to look at the statistics, another one is to look at the economical value of the change. For instance your 9.6 factor between DSLR and MILC for Europe during Jan-Sep translated to Yen meant that DSLR shipments decreased 24 billion Yen in value while the MILC decrease was 3 billion Yen. As a shareholder the first value might trouble you more, perhaps.







Oct 30, 2013 at 06:11 PM
 

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retrofocus
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p.1 #11 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


stargazer78 wrote:
The Sony A7(R) is a big "game changer"? That remains to be seen.

Right now, hardly any of its lenses are smaller than their SLR counterparts. In fact, only the Zeiss 24-70 f4.0 is smaller. The 35 f2.8, 50 f1.8, and 70-200 f4.0 are all bigger and heavier than their EF equivalents. What's the point of having a small body when the lens size remains the same? If anything, the small body will just handle poorly with the big lenses.

Perhaps Sony can eventually introduce lenses that demonstrate the size benefits of a mirrorless full frame system. Or perhaps they can't.
...Show more

Do you really think this is about the lenses here? Of course not! Reason why people are interested in this camera is not as much by its size or that it is mirrorless but more so by its sensor! Of all photographers I talked with, none mentioned that they wanted to downscale the size of their lenses with this mirrorless Sony camera. But everybody asked how to attach existing Canon EF lenses onto it! So it is not about downsizing, just having an alternative to use a better and newer sensor together with Canon lenses.

I go even a step further: if Canon would come up with a 5D MkIV with this kind of sensor or better for the same price tag as the Sony goes for, nobody would even look at the A7(R). Proof: The A7(R) is only of minor interest in the Nikon forum - because they have the D800(E).



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:15 PM
abqnmusa
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p.1 #12 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


The 6D was more a game changer than the Sony A7
I find it hard to believe that small body is going to give you anything to hold onto with larger lenses
I doubt the adapters will give the same lens results as a native mount camera
same odd setup with other sony mirror less (NEX) - body too small and unbalanced with any larger lens
we will see

the 6D is a smaller, affordable, very high image quality full frame
sensor on 6D has been excellent, low light performance excellent, focus reliable for even BIF shots




Oct 30, 2013 at 06:24 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #13 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


I anticipate that some folks would shout that the 6D has an ancient sensor technology - right, wrong or indifferent .

Edited on Oct 30, 2013 at 06:35 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:34 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #14 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


abqnmusa wrote:
The 6D was more a game changer than the Sony A7
I find it hard to believe that small body is going to give you anything to hold onto with larger lenses
I doubt the adapters will give the same lens results as a native mount camera
same odd setup with other sony mirror less (NEX) - body too small and unbalanced with any larger lens
we will see

the 6D is a smaller, affordable, very high image quality full frame
sensor on 6D has been excellent, low light performance excellent, focus reliable for even BIF shots



The 6D is now just a niche product for entry level FF cameras - which is a good thing that it does exist. But by far no game changer. A bit modernized sensor algorithms, that's it.

I agree that larger lenses on the Sony A7 are a bit too cumbersome. But this is not the target market of this camera - again, it simply allows users to use regular EF lenses on a FF body with modern high MP/DR sensor. The A7(R) has the potential to settle in the Canon market especially for landscape/architecture/fine art photographers if nothing happens by Canon soon with a competitive product sensor-wise. This camera is not made for photojournalists, wildlife photographers or event shooters.



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:35 PM
abqnmusa
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p.1 #15 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


yes, I understand that about the A7 being good for small lenses.

but I can put a Canon 40mm F2.8 pancake on the 6D, or a 24mm F2.8 IS, or other smallish lens and accomplish the same task. Then mount my 300mm F4 or 400mm F5.6 lens and still have a nice grip and balanced camera setup.



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:36 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #16 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


abqnmusa wrote:
yes, I understand that about the A7 being good for small lenses.

but I can put a Canon 40mm F2.8 pancake on the 6D, or a 24mm F2.8 IS, or other smallish lens and accomplish the same task. Then mount my 300mm F4 or 400mm F5.6 lens and still have a nice grip and balanced camera setup.


Absolutely. If you are okay with the 6D sensor (especially if you shoot at very high ISO numbers), this would be a better choice. That's why I said earlier that the A7(R) wouldn't stand any chance in the market to be enormously successful (or even seen as a game changer) if Canon already made a DSLR available with D800(E)/A7(R) sensor specs for the same price tag. You could then use just one camera body for all your Canon lenses if you are interested in the new sensor technology. But since such Canon camera does not (yet) exist, the game plan is different.....



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:42 PM
abqnmusa
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p.1 #17 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


the image quality of 6D and 5D III meets my needs.

The competition in the market is good for all.



Oct 30, 2013 at 06:58 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #18 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


Like all the MILCs before it, unless public perception changes, the Sony A7 will also be a niche market product.
The majority of the buyers out there want the cheapest camera that they "believe" will get them the results they want.

And yes, competition is good in any market.



Oct 30, 2013 at 07:39 PM
jctriguy
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p.1 #19 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


retrofocus wrote:
I go even a step further: if Canon would come up with a 5D MkIV with this kind of sensor or better for the same price tag as the Sony goes for, nobody would even look at the A7(R). Proof: The A7(R) is only of minor interest in the Nikon forum - because they have the D800(E).


Another step further...A Canon 5DmkIV with equivalent sensor to A7(r) would basically reduce all thoughts of the Sony even if it was priced above 3k. Would be a very small market of alt lens users that would be interested if Canon matched the sensor specs.



Oct 30, 2013 at 08:29 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.1 #20 · MILCs selling poorly relative to DSLRs


I would be interested to see the numbers on how my DSLR owners have never purchased a lens besides what came in the kit. I bet it would be very high. I know a lot of people who bought a rebel because they wanted a "real" camera, but have never swapped out the lenses on their camera. In USA bigger is better. I for one am glad it is a niche that does exist, I was tired of big cameras and even bigger lenses, I also enjoy the lack of attention a smaller camera gets me, finally I don't have to answer people's dumb questions when they see me photographing.


Oct 30, 2013 at 08:48 PM
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