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Archive 2013 · Football Red eye and Ghosts
  
 
amlsml
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


So I read about 50 posts using High speed sync and a TT5 and TT1 low on my monopod. Andy D and Ralph T have posted some really great HS football flashed photos that I was trying to emulate. I appreciate the feedback. My field ambient is 12,800, 640, 2.8.
I set my D3s to 3.2, 5000, 640-1000. I placed a Sb-800 on a PW TT5 on a home made bracket about 1 foot below my 400 2.8. with a better Beemer.
I set the flash to manual 1/2 power and this indicated about 2 stops under ambient.

Most of the images sucked. Tons of ghosting and red eye.
Should the flash have been lower on the monopod?
Do you shoot in TTL instead of manual?

I read where Andy D will go form 1/1 to 1/2 power depending on where the action is? No way am I good enough to change the flash power that quick.
Appreciate the feedback. Some of these are SOOC and some I tried to fix in post. Thanks.





1

  NIKON D3S    400mm    f/3.5    1/1000s    5000 ISO    0.0 EV  







2

  NIKON D3S    400mm    f/3.5    1/1000s    5000 ISO    0.0 EV  







3

  NIKON D3S    400mm    f/3.5    1/1000s    5000 ISO    0.0 EV  







4

  NIKON D3S    400mm    f/3.5    1/1000s    5000 ISO    0.0 EV  







5

  NIKON D3S    400mm    f/3.5    1/1250s    5000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Oct 28, 2013 at 02:23 AM
Carl Auer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Ghosting is going to happen. To limit it, look at your flash and make sure it is pointed correctly. If the angle is up or down even a bit, you may not be getting the full power of the flash and more of the edges of the flash that could result in ghosting. I like having my flash 36" or more bellow my lens and off center a tad. You will still have some red eye from time to time, but it decreases it quite a bit.

Also, shooting in High Speed Sync which I assume you are since I see shutter speeds on these of 1/1000 or higher, remember, this limits the throw of your flash. If you have a flash guide # of 200 feet, in HSS, that could be more like 25 feet. Increasing the ISO helps, but not as much when you are in HSS. When I shoot HS football with flash, I shoot ISO 800 and have the flash in full TTL.



Oct 28, 2013 at 02:33 AM
jmcaverly
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


I shoot with a 400 mm from a kneeling position with my camera about 3 feet off the ground. My flash is mounted on the monopod about 1.5 feet below the lens. I still get red eye with the flash in the low position, but not as bad as when the flash is at the lens level. I am still working on improving my flashed football photos, but I have had better luck so far with TTL instead of manual. I think that shooting with flash is just a matter of shooting more games to get the settings dialed in. Here is a link to one of my posts from this year.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1246862/0#11858456

Jeff



Oct 28, 2013 at 02:49 AM
amlsml
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Carl, thanks, yes I was in High speed sync, was trying to just give it a "kiss" of light. The flash bracket was a nightmare to keep aimed. I will definitely work on that this week. When you are in TTL at full power, are you trying to replace ambient or are you exposing ambient and just adding a little flash? Can you get a few off before the flash dumps its power? thanks


Oct 28, 2013 at 03:15 AM
clarence3
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


amlsml wrote:
I placed a Sb-800 on a PW TT5 on a home made bracket about 1 foot below my 400 2.8. with a better Beemer.
I set the flash to manual 1/2 power and this indicated about 2 stops under ambient.

Most of the images sucked. Tons of ghosting and red eye.
Should the flash have been lower on the monopod?
Do you shoot in TTL instead of manual?


I shoot PW TT5 hypersync with 3 speedlites, even using 300-800mm at f/5.6 on Friday night games.

The "2 stops under ambient" is only when shooting normal, non-pulsing, non-HSS flash.

When your SS is faster than xsync, then your shutter is freezing the action. IMHO, 1/800" is sufficient for HS football. Anything faster and you're not giving the pulsing flash enough time to contribute.

My flashes are at the very bottom of the monopod, about 3' below my lens. No red-eye. And keeps the weight at the bottom for a very stable rig.

Set exposure using M with high ISO (I'm typically at 10000-12800), SS at 1/800". I set ETTL... your M settings are managing the main exposure. The pulsing speedlites are just providing fill, so flash level isn't critical. ETTL does a great job of throttling back so you don't blow out the faces with too much flash when the action finally comes close.



Oct 28, 2013 at 01:32 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Thanks Jeff. Nice post you linked.

Clarence- maybe I am confusing Hyper sync with High speed sync? My camera is set for High speed sync and I believe the TT5 is in High speed sync by default if my shutter is fast than the sync speed? So what is the difference between the 2? I was under the impression that Hypersync only fire 1 pulse of light while high speed sync shoot multiple pulses? Do you find your flashes recycle faster in Hypersync? Would love to see how you mount them to your monopod, I was having a devil of a time trying to aim just 1. I will also try TTL as well. Thanks for the time.



Oct 29, 2013 at 01:32 AM
AndyD
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Here is the comparison of High Speed Sync vs. Hypersync from PocketWizard website.
Here is the link PocketWizard

"High Speed Sync (HSS or Auto-FP sync) begins pulsing the flash before the first curtain opens and continues to pulse it until after the second curtain closes. From the camera’s perspective this pulsed light appears as continuous light during the exposure. HSS uses a lot of energy, however, which means there is less light available for the image, and is usually only available in lower powered Speedlites/Speedlights. Syncing up to 1/8000 is possible, but the flash must be very close to the subject.


HyperSync uses a normal flash of light, which has much more energy in it compared to pulsed HSS. HyperSync also uses precision timing to align the flash’s duration and output curve with the moving shutter curtains. This allows more light in the image than HSS can provide, and works with higher powered flashes like studio flash packs and monolights. Different flash and camera combinations yield different shutter speed and light output performance, but most combinations will get worthwhile benefits using HyperSync."

Cheers,
Andy



Oct 29, 2013 at 02:51 PM
AndyD
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


"I read where Andy D will go form 1/1 to 1/2 power depending on where the action is? No way am I good enough to change the flash power that quick."

It's not a matter of changing the flash power quickly. It's a matter of knowing approximately at what distance I am from the play that will dictate the flash power. That comes with experience ( ie. trial and error). I believe that there is no magic bullet or a setting that will work all the time. My camera/flash settings as well as others in the forum serve as a good starting point. Each venue you go to has its challenges. But once you have dialed in your lighting you can always modify it to the venues lighting conditions. Basically what I am trying to say is that it takes practice.

Cheers,
Andy



Oct 29, 2013 at 03:35 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Andy Thanks, appreciate the feedback, PW had me confused as they only had Hyper sync instructions for strobes and not Speed lights. I will give it a try this week, thanks


Oct 29, 2013 at 05:29 PM
 

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clarence3
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


amlsml wrote:
Clarence- maybe I am confusing Hyper sync with High speed sync? So what is the difference between the 2?.


Described in detail in the link provided above, but I refer to Hypersync as PocketWizard's "optimized HSS". The software lets you adjust timing for single burst flashes above xsync (I used 1/640" with the 1D3) and their timings for pulsing are a LOT more efficient that Canon HSS (1.68 stops better than Canon HSS). Canon starts the pulsing long before the shutter opens and continues pulsing well after the shutter closes... a lot of wasted light and battery power. My batteries last a lot longer with PW TT5s.

amlsml wrote:
Would love to see how you mount them to your monopod, I was having a devil of a time trying to aim just 1.


No aiming... other than looking down and seeing if the flashes are pointing in the same general direction as the lens. I lock the zoom width on the speedlites to 105.

Here's an old thread from the archives and an old picture of my flash rig...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/testforum/topic/1145216/0




Oct 29, 2013 at 06:31 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


You sir, are a mad genius. Your archived post is also very descriptive. Will give it a go this weekend. Don't know if I will add 3 speed lights but may as well create the rig for them. You ever fool with the Ac3 controller on your TT1 or just leave it on TTL all game?


Oct 30, 2013 at 12:09 AM
finster1018
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


amlsml wrote:
Andy Thanks, appreciate the feedback, PW had me confused as they only had Hyper sync instructions for strobes and not Speed lights. I will give it a try this week, thanks


What are those brackets you are using and where are you mounting the external battery packs or don't you use them?

I use this bracket with 2 580ex II's and tt5's but mounted horizontally so I can mount the external batteries to the monopod.



Oct 30, 2013 at 04:55 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


If you check on the link by Ralph it shows much more to his set up. When i shot the one flash I got thru an entire game on the same set of AA energizers, from what i Hypersync will also add even more battery life


Nov 01, 2013 at 05:13 PM
Carl Auer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


With the Canon 580 EXII, there is a custom function to allow a second flash before the flash is fully charged when in anything other than single frame advance. When I use flash, I will shoot at the low speed 3fps. High mah rechargeable batteries help with faster recycle or an external battery pack will really help. You do not want the flash to fire to many times in low or high fps because you could burn out the flash.

The difference with HSS and a standard flash is kind of complex. Think of it this way, when a flash fires normally, you get one quick flash that fires while the shutter is open. As long as your exposure on camera is about 2 stops bellow ambient, the flash acts as the shutter. I.E. shutter speed of 1/250 and flash duration of 1/1000th as long as no ambient light is coming in, it should look like you shot with a shutter speed of 1/1000. With HSS, the flash actually starts firing before the shutter opens and stops after the shutter closes. And it is a bunch of lower powered flash burst during this time frame. So, in a well lit location, with a close subject, HSS adds light to help you achieve faster camera shutter speeds. The standard bullet through a balloon or apple scenario is a great example. Adding 2 or 3 or more flashes in HSS allow you to achieve that 1/8000th shutter speed, but the flash is lighting the scene, not stopping the action. SO, when you are shooting HSS, you are adding light, not stopping action with the flash, and if you look at the back of your flash it will show you the range. Tonight, I have two football games. The first one, starts at 4pm and I should be able to get to the 4th quarter using no flash. As soon as dusk hits, I will set my flash to HSS, just for fill, but still rely on the shutter to stop the action. Normally, as soon as I am no longer getting shutter speeds of at least 1/500th, I will change the strobe to normal, not HSS, drop the ISO to 800 and continue shooting with the flash stopping action. BUT, I tried something last week that I am going to work with tonight some more. I shot a quarter of a game last week in RAW and ISO 12,800, edited in Lightroom and was able to submit to MaxPreps and get the gallery approved. Blew me away that the 7D could create MaxPreps quality shots at 12,800. What I will do tonight is the same thing, except shoot with the flash in HSS just to give the uniforms a little pop and act as a little fill, but Ambient will be my main light source.



Nov 01, 2013 at 05:53 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


Thanks Carl, let us know how you did. Seems like there are as many shooting 12,800 iso and all ambient as those who flash. The confusion came about HYPER sync , which is different than High speed sync, in that it only fires once when the shutter is open AND at shutter speeds over x-sync, so the shutter still stops action, but the hyper sync still fires 1 flash instead of a series of flashes like in High speed sync. it would seem that the advantage is letting the light just "kiss" the player and saving on flash, battery power and allowing more shots in quick succession that the full x-sync dump. I believe this is only possible using the PW TT5 and TT1?


Nov 04, 2013 at 04:09 AM
RubenL
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


I tought flashes where not allowed in sport games.


Nov 04, 2013 at 08:46 PM
Gregstx
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


RubenL wrote:
I tought flashes where not allowed in sport games.


It depends on where you are. The games I have shot do not allow flash. But many do.



Nov 04, 2013 at 10:23 PM
amlsml
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Football Red eye and Ghosts


I shot girls field hockey tonight using my flash, no one said a word, also routinely shoot with flash at ice hockey, basketball and football. Still not good at flash but trying to learn.


Nov 05, 2013 at 03:16 AM





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