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Archive 2013 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?
  
 
wlderdude
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


I've had an XTi (400D) for many years which has served me well, practically living with a Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 mounted on it. I'd guess half of my pictures are taken at 800 ISO F2.8 and 75mm. While I've been happy with it, the ISO performance just isn't up to modern standards at all.

Last year I picked up a used 7D, which has not worked out like I'd hoped. It's heavy enough that my wife won't use it. If I'm leaving the house with it, I prefer to lug around the much lighter Rebel. While many here cite heft as an advantage, I prefer less of it.

The most disappointing aspect has been that when I look at the pictures, those taken with the Tamron aren't all that sharp. I've also found the 7D files to be less croppable than the Rebel's. I've tried micro adjusting, but the lens never becomes sharp no matter how I focus it.

My work around has been to keep my 85mm 1.8 mounted on the 7D, which gives me all the advantages I'd hoped to see. The focal length is not very versatile, though. I still have the old XTi clunker with me 90% of the time. The 7D is what a gun enthusiasts would call a "Safe Queen," or a pilot would call a "Hanger Queen."

With all the deals on 6D's lately, I'm considering trading up to full frame. It makes sense when you look a the pixel density (Megapixels/square mm) I assume is responsible for the lack of clarity with this lens.

XTi - 0.030 MP/mm2
7D - 0.054 MP/mm2
6D - 0.023 MP/mm2

Would a lens that was sharp on a 10 MP crop camera, and not sharp on a 18 MP crop camera be sharp on a 20 MP full frame?



Oct 26, 2013 at 05:42 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


wlderdude wrote:
I've had an XTi (400D) for many years which has served me well, practically living with a Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 mounted on it. I'd guess half of my pictures are taken at 800 ISO F2.8 and 75mm. While I've been happy with it, the ISO performance just isn't up to modern standards at all.

Last year I picked up a used 7D, which has not worked out like I'd hoped. It's heavy enough that my wife won't use it. If I'm leaving the house with it, I prefer to lug around the much lighter Rebel. While many here cite heft
...Show more

I'm surprised that it wasn't sharp on the 7D (the 7D is a trace softer than most other bodies using any lens though due to special image processing needs of its files) as my tmaron 28-75 is pretty sharp.

On a 20MP FF it would crisper over the entire central area (an area somewhat larger than an aps-c portion of the frame) although the outer edges and especially corners might look softer at some focal lengths and, at the long end, the bokeh near the edges on FF can get very weird under certain circumstances.



Oct 26, 2013 at 05:55 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


OK having just made that jump to FF from a 7d (to a 5D3) part of me says 'Hell Yeah'

but i will pick up on a few things first.

had a 24-105 which was great on my 40D and is great on my 5D3 but was never upto it on my 7D , so yeah the 7d can make an 'iffy' lens look average .
but I got a 17-55 for the 7d and it was a fantastic lens . so that would be a much cheaper 'upgrade' for the 7D . and would be usable on your rebel as well . and if your thinking about the lack of range then remember going FF with your current lens looses the same amount of range

Now when you say the 7D is not as 'cropable' as the rebel, do you mean your comparing at 100% ? if soi then yes the 7D files look worse , but if you increase the rebel files to the same equive the 7d files will look bettter . and they also look much better at full screen view (ie the whole image) .

but having played with the FF 5D3 against the 7D files for a bit I will say I can crop the FF files past the field of view of the 7D ones and they still look as good or better when viewed fully on my 27" screen . I was thinking about keeping the 7D for those 'reach limited' times but I dont think thats going to be the case .

as a confirmed crop user I have to admit the FF world took me by surprise

Edited on Oct 26, 2013 at 06:05 PM · View previous versions



Oct 26, 2013 at 05:58 PM
dwweiche
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


Purchasing a new camera to hide the sub-par performance of a lens doesn't make sense to me. Either upgrade to full frame because you need FF benefits, or upgrade your lens, perhaps to a used Canon 24-70 f2.8.


Oct 26, 2013 at 06:04 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


A full-frame camera will bring full-frame glass to life for that reason, but keep in mind that if your Tamron isn't sharp into the edges and corners, which are cropped off with your current cameras, then the 6D will show that pretty clearly. It's one reason I was fairly careful not to pick up lenses that weren't sharp edge to edge when I was shooting crop.

One other thing to try, though, is to test the two cameras side-by-side and then output the images to the same final size, and see if you can really tell the difference. At 1:1, the XTi should definitely look better at low ISOs and with good light, but when rendered to the same size the 7D should take the lead.

As for going to the 6D- well, I'd consider selling both cameras if you don't need the 7D's AF, that's the only reason to own it, as used prices are still lower than 70D new prices. But test your 7D a little more first.

Also, that 6D, while not inconsequential, is smaller and lighter than your 7D; might test the WAF in store if you can .



Oct 26, 2013 at 06:07 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


if a 7D is too heavy for you, the weight saving with a 6D is pretty minor and you might end up with another "closet queen." You should probably buy a Rebel SL1 if weight is a big deal. I find the difference in body weight to be almost inconsequential as carrying glass takes up the most space and weight in my bag. But I did stop using grips and pro series bodies (1D) in a weak attempt to comfort my back and shoulder. Sounds like you're the perfect candidate for a mirror less system or Rebel SL1.


Oct 26, 2013 at 06:15 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


wlderdude wrote:
I've had an XTi (400D) for many years which has served me well, practically living with a Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 mounted on it. I'd guess half of my pictures are taken at 800 ISO F2.8 and 75mm. While I've been happy with it, the ISO performance just isn't up to modern standards at all.

Last year I picked up a used 7D, which has not worked out like I'd hoped. It's heavy enough that my wife won't use it. If I'm leaving the house with it, I prefer to lug around the much lighter Rebel. While many here cite heft
...Show more

Perhaps your lens is a poor example or suffered damage. I suspect it won't look particulary good on FX either.

Resolution is typically a linear measurement. The presentation of areal pixel density data exaggerates the differences.

EBH



Oct 26, 2013 at 06:21 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


dwweiche wrote:
Purchasing a new camera to hide the sub-par performance of a lens doesn't make sense to me. Either upgrade to full frame because you need FF benefits, or upgrade your lens, perhaps to a used Canon 24-70 f2.8.


most 24-70 2.8 originals are no sharper than a good tamron though so he could easily end up paying a lot for the same or get the same for a lot less by trying another tamron copy (24-70 II might well do the trick, but that is a lot more money) also the 24-70 2.8 is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy heavier than the tamron so a 6D+that would be way heavy for him I fear if the 7D+tamron is already too heavy. (heck even the 6D+tamron will be not much better in that regard, if even)



Oct 26, 2013 at 06:34 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


Heck if size and weight (and still wanting FF) is a huge issue then as long as I wasnt invested in Canon that much (ie loads of other glass etc) then I would probably look at the D600 + 24-85VR

failing that keeping crop and staying canon the SL1 + the new STM EFs lenses would a good choice also . SL1 + 18-55stm & 55-250 STM would make 1 great little set



Oct 26, 2013 at 06:45 PM
wlderdude
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


EB-1 wrote:
Perhaps your lens is a poor example or suffered damage. I suspect it won't look particulary good on FX either.

Resolution is typically a linear measurement. The presentation of areal pixel density data exaggerates the differences.

EBH


Damage is not out of the question for the Tamron. It's been my workhorse while the 85mm 1.8 has been the show horse that never gets put in harms way. An internal cover piece came loose in the Tamron a few years ago. I had to remove the front element to snap it back in place. That said, the sharpness difference between the 85mm 1.8 and Tamron are still nearly indiscernible on the Rebel body.

Those 100% crops at that site the-digital-picture.com look about in line with what I'm seeing.

the-digital-picture.com

I've only looked at sharpness in the center of the frame and have not investigated the edges. I'd not considered that full frame would expose potential edges and corners weaknesses.




Oct 26, 2013 at 06:48 PM
 

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michael kilner
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


I agree with much of what Ian says,I have just got a 6D and tried it with my zoom against the 7D.I presumed that the difference of reach would negate itself when cropping the images,ie I thought that the 6D files when enlarged to 7D size wouldnt be as good as the 7D original files.I found the images were better,had less noise and were sharper.I didnt realise the 6D would be so good.


Oct 26, 2013 at 07:56 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


michael kilner wrote:
I agree with much of what Ian says,I have just got a 6D and tried it with my zoom against the 7D.I presumed that the difference of reach would negate itself when cropping the images,ie I thought that the 6D files when enlarged to 7D size wouldnt be as good as the 7D original files.I found the images were better,had less noise and were sharper.I didnt realise the 6D would be so good.


The 7D is really that bad, as was the 60D- but the newer 18MP bodies and the 70D with the new 20MP sensor are much better. I'm finding my EOS-M to be infinitely more usable than my 60D ever was, and it's making my 6D jealous .



Oct 26, 2013 at 08:22 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


I was always disappointed with my 7D, The M has been giving me much better files, either that or the M lenses are just much better than what I was using on my 7D.


Oct 28, 2013 at 06:19 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


andyjaggy82 wrote:
I was always disappointed with my 7D, The M has been giving me much better files, either that or the M lenses are just much better than what I was using on my 7D.


Whether using the native lenses or a collection of adapted lenses (why I really bought it), it produces sharp, clean shots at higher ISOs than my 60D ever could. I'd love to have a 70D or 7D II companion for my 6D, but the M was just so damn cheap .



Oct 28, 2013 at 07:50 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


Yep, it's a great little camera, I am looking forward to what the M2 will bring, assuming that Canon doesn't kill it.


Oct 28, 2013 at 08:35 PM
wlderdude
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


Thanks for all the replies. I'll be craigslisting the 7D shortly. The autofocus is great, but underutilized in my hands.

My wife and I have a project going where we need a 13X19 printer, so with all the rebate deals going, I think I can sell her on upgrading to the 6D.



Oct 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


The Tamron 28-75 is very sharp in the center, but weak across the frame, especially on full frame. I was quite disappointed with mine when I upgraded to the 5D2 several years ago.

So if your solution is to buy the 6D and a better normal zoom, then remember that it will probably about the same weight as the "too heavy" 7D/Tamron combo.



Oct 29, 2013 at 03:52 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


Just thinking outside the box a bit - how about a70D and 40f2.8 STM combined with your 85f1.8?


Oct 29, 2013 at 04:03 AM
Rytr
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


The 7D is noted for fast focussing. I replaced mine with the somewhat lighter 70D which I have only had for a couple of months. I like it the more I use it and my 'keeper rate' is an improvement over the 7D but that is probably just me.

In addition I have used the 6D for about a year with 'zero' complaints other than wishing it would focus as fast as the 7D. But I bought it for my WA lenses and being FF it excels with my 17-40 and 24-105. Its not too shabby with a 70-200/4 or a 300/4 either.



Oct 29, 2013 at 07:24 PM
JohnJ80
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 7D outresolving my Tam 28-75, Should I get a 6D?


I'd bet that the lens and the camera are fine but just not calibrated to each other. I don't recall if the 7D has micro adjust capability (thought it did) but I've done that on my 1dmk3 and it's made a huge difference. It's not hard to do. Otherwise, send the lens in for calibration if that is the only one that's out of whack of your lenses.

J.



Oct 30, 2013 at 01:08 AM
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