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Archive 2013 · Good Sound From GH1video?

  
 
AmbientMike
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Good Sound From GH1video?


What do I need to get good sound in videos from my gh1? Thinking about purchasing Panasonic microphone for gh1.

Edited on Oct 23, 2013 at 07:10 AM · View previous versions



Oct 22, 2013 at 03:21 PM
joe88
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Good Sound From GH1video?


When you say "good" do you mean broadcast quality or ?
Also do you want ambient stereo sound or directional sound?

For directional sound, at minimum, I would consider a Rode Video Mic Pro.
http://www.rodemic.com/mics/videomicpro

For stereo/ambient, I would consider the Rode Stereo Video Mic Pro

Get a 3.5 to 2.5mm adapter from amazon, ebay etc to mount to the GH1.

For pro/broadcast quality use XLR mic to external recorder with a Rode NTG 1,2, & 3 or similar.



Oct 22, 2013 at 03:28 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Thank you Joe. I would like broadcast quality if I can afford it. What is the difference between directional and stereo? I think I want stereo. Would like to get a local choir with good sound.


Oct 23, 2013 at 07:21 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Record second system sound, then, and in stereo. I use a Sony PCM-10 or a Roland R-05, and either mic via levalier clip-on (mono), or have the recorders out of shot and use the on-board mics (stereo). The solution to good sound is to understand the inverse square law: the close you mic, the higher the signal-to-noise ratio, and the better the sound.

Use some device to get a sync point (I get an actor/performer to clap, and use the camera audio to sync the second system audio). Night and day difference in quality, and (IMHO) light years ahead of an on-camera mic, even one as good as the Røde.



Oct 23, 2013 at 09:19 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Good Sound From GH1video?


What is second system sound and sync point? What do youmean have the recorders out of shot and use the onboard mics? Just use whatever mics that they are singing in to? Align the clap so motion and sound sync?

Do you like theRoland or Sony better? what is the difference between the $300 and $600 ntg-2 kits at b&h?

What all will I need for these solutions as far as stuff I have to buy? Sorry I'm new to video sound.

Edited on Oct 23, 2013 at 11:11 PM · View previous versions



Oct 23, 2013 at 10:34 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Looks like I'd want the Rode and if possible use sound system. I'd be doing other video besides choir, hopefully, that is just one of the things I'm interested in doing.

What if the venue doesn't haveRode or similar mics? Better off with several or one Rode?

Do I need a kit or can I just buy the mic?



Oct 23, 2013 at 11:10 PM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Good Sound From GH1video?


A starting place.

I think it will be helpful to study on this and get back with specific questions.



Oct 24, 2013 at 06:48 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Thanks for the link. Looks like either way I'd need the Video Mic Pro then add the other to it. OK I see what you are taking about now I think.

Would it make sense to buy the recorder second and plug a cardioid in to it? Whatever the church had available?

What software will I need?

Any other mics I should consider? This may be wacky, but what about something like a Cascade Fat Head Ribbon mic or two?



Oct 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Good Sound From GH1video?


It all depends on the church setup, and what system you edit with.

I would use the camera's own mics to capture what's called reference sound (so, don't buy a better mic for the camera), and import this sound along with the video from the camera. Depending on which system you edit with, you will be able to view the waveforms of the sound files (the camera's and the recorder's).

At the time of the event you are recording, you select 48/16 (48KHz/16 bit) sound recording on your recorder, and place that in front of the performance (well in front; you want all voices to be roughly the same distance away; if you are too close, the inverse square law I referred you to above will favour the centre voices); the width of the choir away is a good starting point from which to try positioning the recorder; listen in the headphones you will plug in to the recorder for monitoring and adjust positions). Doing it this way will allow you to make a single stereo recording of the balanced/amplified sound that is set up for the audience; recording this will allow you to record the ambience of the church as well (the singers' mics will not) as well, and it is both simple and accurate.

The mics on the Sony and the Roland do a very good job, but if better mics are available, you can use them instead, but don't be bamboozled by ultimate quality: the PCM-10 sounds really good, and you will have difficulty getting sound from the singers' mics to your recorder. The exception would be if you can get line out sound from the mixing desk—but frankly I would try my suggestions first, and compare the sound out of the desk (because my approach includes the ambience; in this case the effect of the size of the air space and the natural "reverb" (reverberation or echo); it is this aspect that makes in-venue recordings sound the way they do, among other things.

Again, I stress that this advice is dependent on the final use. From your questions, you are a beginner, so use this approach first and learn as you go. No less that Deutche Gramaphon uses single mics (although they use the mid-side technique) to record full orchestras, and for many of the same reasons.

Make sure you turn the recorder and the camera on, and record the image of someone making a single handclap; you will see this spike on both the camera's reference sound AND the recorder's sound; sync the recorder sound spike to the video image of the clap (at the point the hands touch), and delete the camera sound. This is a quick way of achieving sync; some editing programs will do this for you (they analyse the wave forms and sync automatically).

In my experience, using second system sound with only the cheap technology I have mentioned will give you better end sound than any on-camera mic/camera setup you can use. Please do more study; this is an immense subject—over and out from me.

I sincerely hope Fred will start a video forum here: I have been a filmmaker and videographer for 30+ years, and would like to write some formal primers like this one: how to get good sound into videos!



Oct 24, 2013 at 01:14 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Thanks Kit, So you're basically saying use the PCM-10 and that will be better than the GH-1 + mic? So I don't need a microphone other than what the PCM-10 has?

And then I could pick up a higher quality mic as needed?




Oct 24, 2013 at 01:35 PM
joe88
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Good Sound From GH1video?


I agree with Kit Laughin on what he mentioned, excellent tips there. A reasonably priced external recorder combo will still sound better than the built in mic or an onboard Rode. Onboard mic with a Rode or equivalent is useful for run and gun situations (documentary, interviews, etc )where you might not have time to setup sound or do a post production.

For sync with external audio, I would suggest considering something like Plural Eyes. Sometimes these are bundled free with Rode mics. http://www.redgiant.com/products/all/pluraleyes/

If you don't have time for post work, a mic mounted to the GH1 internal recorder would still be much better than the built in mic, so it always depend on context or situation. Anyone who shoots video will tell you, sound is everything. Bad video edits can be acceptable but poor sound and you won't have an audience.

Once you get into mics, you might end up with a collection depending on what sound you want to "draw", just like lenses with different signatures, different mics have different sound. characteristics. Have fun!



Oct 24, 2013 at 02:25 PM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Anyone who shoots video will tell you, sound is everything.

Thanks Joe; I can't remember how many young directors miss this crucial point.

Re. the RØDE (even though an excellent mic) will be limited by your camera position; almost never is this optimal for sound. Once you separate the vision from the sound, you are golden; two different sets of constraints requiring different solutions, potentially. Best sound minimises the noise to signal ratio (and why levaliers give such good voice micing, even though they are all omni--directional: the voice is so much louder because closer; the background noise is thus far lower.

With your choir, position the recorder for best sound, following the suggestions above, and listen to the preview via headphones to hear what the recorder is hearing. This way you can be certain of what you are recording; not doing this also is a classic beginner's error!

Good luck and let us know how you go.



Oct 24, 2013 at 02:36 PM
Kit Laughlin
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Sorry, missed this bit:

use the PCM-10 and that will be better than the GH-1 + mic?

Yes, subject to all of the above. And I agree 100% with Joe re. the usefulness of the Røde for run-and-gun and other close/fast situations; it will definitely do a better job. The older GH cameras needed a 3.5 to 2.5mm jack converter; this was one of the GH-series irritations for me. The GH-3 fixed that, from memory.



Oct 24, 2013 at 02:37 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Good Sound From GH1video?


Mics are like lenses, what works for an interview one-on-one, like a lavalier wont be so great for a choir where the voices are in a wide area when maybe a cardioid mic would be best. I use a Rode mic for a lot of run and gun stuff and a sound guy friend with his kit of mics for more fancy stuff.
Most anything is better than the built in camera mic.

Audio is a very deep and wide field and I don't even know enough to know what I don't know...



Oct 24, 2013 at 02:51 PM





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