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Archive 2013 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses

  
 
Ron Pfister
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p.89 #1 · p.89 #1 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


It's a shame we can't properly evaluate the smearing from these images. I don't mind fixing vignetting and color shift in post, if necessary...


Nov 15, 2013 at 04:17 PM
Jochenb
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p.89 #2 · p.89 #2 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


What's also possible is that some of his lenses just aren't perfectly centered. 36MP shows even the slightest flaws.


Nov 15, 2013 at 04:22 PM
Jabberwockt
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p.89 #3 · p.89 #3 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Even with both the VC35/1.2 and Lux50A, the edge of the frame is noticeably less sharp. The performance is acceptable for me personally, but doesn’t particularly make me excited either.

I wonder how much of it is due to the sensor topping and how much is due to the higher megapixel count of the A7r showing the weakness that would be less detectable in the megapixel count were lower.

Obviously the test was done on a tripod, but I noticed some pics seem to have a bit of "motion shake". Maybe my imagination. I guess I also wonder if the adapter was measured to ensure proper tolerances.



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:25 PM
dbehrens
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p.89 #4 · p.89 #4 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Looks like this camera is mainly for Leica R's - and R does not stand for rangefinder!


Nov 15, 2013 at 04:37 PM
alwang
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p.89 #5 · p.89 #5 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Am I looking at the same pictures as everyone else?

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how good some of the wides are on the A7. The ZM25 and ZM21 both look pretty good to me: about as good as my CV15 on a NEX. The color cast isn't too bad, and there's definitely detail in the lower corners (obscured a bit by the vignetting, but I'm pretty sure that could be easily fixed)

I think there's definitely some misfocusing happening on the wide-aperture shots, so I'm not too worried about those.



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:45 PM
zhangyue
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p.89 #6 · p.89 #6 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses




Vern Dewit wrote:
I was leaning in that direction too, until I realized that I'll probably be using E mount lenses for wide (the 12mm Touit) and Tele (55-210) until better FE options exist. This still results in around 15mp images on the A7r and substantially smaller on the A7. So I'm sticking with the 'r'...

And i prepare to crop it to 4X5 for smear corner at 36M



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:46 PM
shelt
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p.89 #7 · p.89 #7 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


As already mentioned, the ZM 50/2 shots are pretty revealing. It sure seems something is wonky with the adapter. And, the blurry regions are different in the a7 vs a7r shots. Maybe mixing adapters between cameras? Definitely seems to be some minor focusing issues and occasional shake as well... I'm beginning to think a7r users may need to upgrade their adapters...

Overall, no big surprises to me, except perhaps the 50 Lux -- I thought it would do better. I think the ZM 50/2 will be great (on a good adapter), and the 50 Lux will be fine for it's normal uses. I'd still like to see some more 35 Lux shots -- I'm still hopeful there. And, the translated anecdotes suggest the g35 is very good. It has a huge exit pupil, so I suppose it's possible.

Overall, I'm guessing my 24 Elmar won't be great, and I'm thinking I may end up with something workable along these lines (which is fine by me):

OM 24/2.8 (maybe Elmar?)
Leica 35/1.4 then g35 then maybe FE35/2.8
ZM 50/2 (landscape) and CV 50/1.5 (people)
g90

SLR telephotos





Nov 15, 2013 at 04:48 PM
philip_pj
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p.89 #8 · p.89 #8 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


'36MP shows even the slightest flaws.'
'how much is due to the higher megapixel count'

The thought often crossed my mind, and the extra attention we pay to the frame extremes and the other factors make it hard to isolate. The two M lenses that will confirm it's not as it should be are the 21 and 24 SEMs - their lines are very flat right to the corners. The again, it's just an extra 22% of resolution...

On sebboh's list, the general pattern might be : 35mm and longer are good 'considering the subject matter' one shoots with them, wider most are not good enough.

The 35 cron asph at f5.6 has a very high corner sagittal line but not the tan one...this will show up. The 50 lux asph has very poor corners at open and f2.8 so that might be something to consider. Even at f5.6 it is going down fast from a very high 'platform'. All from Leica MTF.

Took a close look, not very confidence inspiring...commiserations.

Edited on Nov 15, 2013 at 05:01 PM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:57 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.89 #9 · p.89 #9 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Shelt, do you already have a CV 50/1.5?

If not, I'm curious as to why you would select that lens over the FE 55.



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:57 PM
coffeeshakes
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p.89 #10 · p.89 #10 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


I agree something is wonky. If that's indicative of the quality we will be getting out of the RF wides I'll be throwing them in the cabinet for another year and will just keep shooting with the d800.


Nov 15, 2013 at 04:57 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.89 #11 · p.89 #11 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Too bad they didn't include some shots with WATE!



Nov 15, 2013 at 04:59 PM
Makten
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p.89 #12 · p.89 #12 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


#1: The adapter is obviously fucked up since sharpness is not the same at all corners and many infinity shots are out of focus (maybe the photographer used the hard infinity stop, which probably is well beyond infinity optically).

#2: The a7 and a7R seems to give exactly the same amount of smearing with every lens (wohoo! ).

#3: The a7 gives a lot less vignetting and color shift.

Edited on Nov 15, 2013 at 05:08 PM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:01 PM
shelt
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p.89 #13 · p.89 #13 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Jeff Kott wrote:
Shelt, do you already have a CV 50/1.5?

If not, I'm curious as to why you would select that lens over the FE 55.


Yes, I already have it. Would likely go with the FE 55 if I were starting from scratch -- it looks very nice. I LOVE the ZM 50/2, however, for outdoor work, so I think I'll be pleased with it on the a7r.



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:06 PM
rera
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p.89 #14 · p.89 #14 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
#1: The adapter is obviously fucked up since sharpness is not the same at all corners and many infinity shots are out of focus (maybe the photographer used the hard infinity stop, which proably is well beyond infinity optically)..


This looks like the case, quite a few shots do have center not in focus. Also it'd awesome to have reference shots with native FE lens.



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:07 PM
Ron Pfister
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p.89 #15 · p.89 #15 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Can't wait to see samples taken with the C Biogon ZM 2.8/35 on the A7R. But I don't have high hopes, after what we've just seen...


Nov 15, 2013 at 05:09 PM
douglasf13
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p.89 #16 · p.89 #16 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
excellent! finally.

looks like his adapter has some alignment issues, upper left and lower right corners are always better than lower left and upper right. still lots of conclusions to draw:

on the a7r at infinity:
35 cron asph - bad till f/11 (kinda surprising)
50 lux asph - bad till f/5.6 (kinda surprising)
50 cron non-AA - good (no surprise)
cv 75/2.5 - good (no surprise)
cv 12/5.6 - bad (a little surprising)
cv 15/4.5 - bad (no surprise)
cv 21/4 - bad (no surprise)
cv 28/2 - bad till f/8 (no real surprise)
cv 35/1.2 - looks good (hard to tell if softness at large aperture is lens or
...Show more

After reading your assessment of the images (I haven't looked at them yet,) I can't help but toot my own horn a bit and link to a post that I made from July, because I've been saying this for a while. link

"I think this camera will be good with native lenses, SLR legacy lenses, and some M standard and longer lenses, which would still give a lot of options. It seems optimistic to think that it will behave well with most M lenses wider than 50mm (and I'm not even sure that all 50mm lenses will be out of the woods.) Granted, it depends on what someone deems as acceptable performance.

I thought some of my NEX cameras were pretty good with M lenses, until I bought an M9, and realized how much more even across the frame the performance was, despite the larger sensor size."



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:11 PM
alundeb
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p.89 #17 · p.89 #17 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
excellent! finally.

looks like his adapter has some alignment issues, upper left and lower right corners are always better than lower left and upper right. still lots of conclusions to draw:

on the a7r at infinity:

cv 35/1.2 - looks good (hard to tell if softness at large aperture is lens or smearing but clears up nicely)



I can't find anything sharp with the 35/1.2 until f/4. In absolute terms that is "clearing up", but this fast lens loses it's point then. Hope it is better at medium distances.



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:24 PM
shelt
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p.89 #18 · p.89 #18 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Another surprising result. I imported the a7r + 50 Lux @1.4 into LR5 and removed the vignetting. Definitely a very noticeable purple cast. I'm not sure I've seen that at 50mm before!


Nov 15, 2013 at 05:27 PM
artur5
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p.89 #19 · p.89 #19 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


My five cents :
Scenario A:
If you plan to build from scratch a setup for an A7r, don't buy ANY RF wide.
Scenario B:
if you already own some wide RF glass, use those above 24mm. cropping the corners a bit when the subject needs sharpness across the frame (landscape ..) IMO 26 or 30 Mpixels are still plenty for most uses and a ZM28 turned into a ZM32 isn't bad either.

That said, a MF Zeiss FE 25/3.4 ( performing like a ZM25/2.8 in a film camera) is what I'd like for Christmas 2014...



Nov 15, 2013 at 05:50 PM
philber
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p.89 #20 · p.89 #20 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


If it is a Zeiss FE, artur5, it is very likely to be have AF...


Nov 15, 2013 at 05:52 PM
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