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Archive 2013 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses

  
 
naturephoto1
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p.150 #1 · p.150 #1 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
hmm, the cv 21/1.8 might be heavier but i think it'll actually take up less space then the WATE. at f/8 (where i'd shoot landscapes) it doesn't seem to lose much to the WATE on the a7r either. on the other hand, neither look as good as the ZF 21/2.8. the fact that the voigtlander can be used at large aperture for interesting reportage type shots makes it more interesting to me than either the WATE or the ZF 21/2.8. to fair though, i also just don't like landscapes taken with a lens that wide to begin with, which makes
...Show more

Derek,

As you and I had discussed possibly in this thread, I opted for the Contax (C/Y) 21mm f2.8 Distagon MMJ which I have on its way. Philip had recommended it highly and it weighs less than the newer Zeiss 21mm Distagons. I definitely have application for such a lens. For my usage I believe it will be better for landscape than the Voigtlander 21mm f1.8.

By the way, I know these were not taken with RF lens much less not 35mm. But I think that these are appropriate for the usage of such a lens. These images were taken in 1995 with my Linhof Technikardan 45S and my Rodenstock 75mm f6.8 Grandagon N MC lens. Depending upon who you follow a 75mm lens on a 4" X 5" camera is the equivalent to either 21mm of 24mm on 35mm FF.

Rich








West Wall of Park Ave., Arches NP; cropped Fujichrome Velvia 50 film







"East Wall of Park Avenue, Arches National Park", Arches NP, Tiffen 812 filter, Fujichrome Velvia 50 film







"Sunrise, Mesa Arch" Canyonlands, NP, Fujichrome Provia 100 film




Dec 18, 2013 at 05:53 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.150 #2 · p.150 #2 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
hmm, the cv 21/1.8 might be heavier but i think it'll actually take up less space then the WATE. at f/8 (where i'd shoot landscapes) it doesn't seem to lose much to the WATE on the a7r either. on the other hand, neither look as good as the ZF 21/2.8. the fact that the voigtlander can be used at large aperture for interesting reportage type shots makes it more interesting to me than either the WATE or the ZF 21/2.8. to fair though, i also just don't like landscapes taken with a lens that wide to begin with, which makes
...Show more

Well according to Consina's website the VM 21 f/1.8 has a 69mm diameter and is 78.4mm long. According to Leica's detailed specs, the WATE is 53mm in diameter and 62mm long without the lens hood and 58mm in diameter and 72mm long with the lens hood, so the Voigtlander is noticeably bigger, but not by a lot. It is about what I would expect from the weight difference. Yeah, I suppose some people may want to use a 21mm lens at f/1.8, but I am not one of them and that is why I tried to describe my account in terms of my personal evaluations and emphases. Certainly if you want to use the VM 21 wide open, then there would be a reason to consider it, and not only consider it but it would likely be a strong option.

Also, I would be surprised if the VM 21 held its own against the WATE at 21mm and f/8. If you look at the Leica data sheet the MTFs at 21mm are quite nice. The distortion is fairly tame at this focal length, and at f/8 the 40 lp/mm values are pretty much 60 percent across the frame. That suggests very good micro contrast. Not quite up to the Zeiss, but very nice anyway. Not many lenses achieve that even at f/8, but maybe the VM 21 does. Still I would want to see side by side shots to be convinced.

If you don't want to shoot landscapes then I think the WATE would definitely be a waste. I actually think it is very much a luxury lens in any circumstance. Now for reportage I still think the Zeiss would be an interesting contender. I have seen some absolutely phenomenal reportage shots with that lens (do you remember the one of a man at what I always took as a funeral by OneAnt, which I still rank as one of the best shots I have ever seen), and it has a floating element that the VM 21 does not, so even though it is a stop and a third slower and considerably bigger the Zeiss might still be worth the extra money it costs even for a reportage lens.



Dec 18, 2013 at 09:58 PM
Kadoorie
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p.150 #3 · p.150 #3 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses




uhoh7 wrote:
28/2.8 v3 leica at f/8:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/11375715644_32d92ee448_b.jpg
DSC04047 by unoh7, on Flickr

you might want to peep at that one: this is the best landscape RF 28 to my eye on the A7r

f/2.8 iso 1600
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5536/11375648275_0ca82ece7c_b.jpg
DSC04085-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

Hi guys

Thnx for sharing all your testing info and pictures with us. Now the moment of truth, how the Elmarit 28 doing when wide open ?

I need a 28 for my 7R so will go to get one used or new if the Elmarit 28's corner performance is manageable. And I suppose v3 has the best corner performance than the later version on A7R.



Dec 18, 2013 at 11:05 PM
sirimiri
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p.150 #4 · p.150 #4 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


dpap1978 wrote:
Regarding the yellow brick on top, I found exactly the same when I shot the ZM Biogon 4.5.


OK, I think after some further investigation, the culprit may just be the gold prongs at the base of the A7R's bayonet throat.

It's the only logical explanation that would tinge the top half of the photo such a stark, uniform color. I rotated the lens, and the filter, both independently and in concert. You can see the ZM15's integrated hood petals enter the frame.

So, my guess is that upon covering the pins somehow, or having an adapter that masks the pins much like a native lens would do, one would not see this yellow reflection that occurs with certain wide-angle lenses mitigated...at using on a Novoflex adapter.

To reiterate, this is an A7R <-Novoflex-> Zeiss M-mount 15mm Distagon.
Hive mind, what do you think?



























Dec 19, 2013 at 02:44 AM
LightShow
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p.150 #5 · p.150 #5 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Kadoorie wrote:
Hi guys

Thnx for sharing all your testing info and pictures with us. Now the moment of truth, how the Elmarit 28 doing when wide open ?

I need a 28 for my 7R so will go to get one used or new if the Elmarit 28's corner performance is manageable. And I suppose v3 has the best corner performance than the later version on A7R.

My version 2 Elmarit M 28 seems about as good, I'll have to take a few more shots to know for sure, but it's definitely usable.



Dec 19, 2013 at 04:21 AM
dnhkng
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p.150 #6 · p.150 #6 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Hi wfrank,

Here are some sample from the Contax G35, as compared to the kit SEL2870. What I have done was use a tripod in my living room, and made sure I have the same field of view on the 28-70 as on the G35. I then used zoomed manual focusing to focus on a spot in the top left corner of the image at f4 and f8, and repeated this in the centre of the image , for both lenses. The RAWs were opened in Lightroom 5.3, with no post processing; zero sharpening and noise reduction, exported at maximum JPEG settings, and assembled in Photoshop. The final JPEG was exported at 'very high' settings at 100% zoom. I figured that process would do for a quick-and-dirty comparison.

Photo set on flickr

I guess I could do some at infinity too sometime after xmas, if I get any requests.

EDIT: added some more samples

Edited on Dec 20, 2013 at 03:10 PM · View previous versions



Dec 19, 2013 at 04:33 AM
wfrank
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p.150 #7 · p.150 #7 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Thanks, appreciate it!


Dec 19, 2013 at 04:53 AM
Kadoorie
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p.150 #8 · p.150 #8 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses




LightShow wrote:
My version 2 Elmarit M 28 seems about as good, I'll have to take a few more shots to know for sure, but it's definitely usable.

Thnx mate looking forward to see how v2 doing. I tried the v3 today and mild color shift when wide open tho :-(



Dec 19, 2013 at 07:38 AM
uhoh7
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p.150 #9 · p.150 #9 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Been shooting my 28 cron on the a7 today:


DSC00567 by unoh7, on Flickr

that's what I call 'cheater' framing, because I keep the edge details close. F/8

below at f/2

DSC00433 by unoh7, on Flickr

and one more long landscape in case anyone wants to look close, again for a shot like this f/8 seems technically the best.

DSC00571 by unoh7, on Flickr

orig: click on file name, the r-click and choose "original"

PS got Hawks V3 today.

Very tight fits. Secondary heli locks and infinity is adjustable.

US Seller of Hawks Stuff



Dec 20, 2013 at 12:48 AM
douglasf13
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p.150 #10 · p.150 #10 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Glad they went back to a smaller lens release tab on the new Hawk's adapter. Looks great.


Dec 20, 2013 at 02:50 AM
uhoh7
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p.150 #11 · p.150 #11 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


douglasf13 wrote:
Glad they went back to a smaller lens release tab on the new Hawk's adapter. Looks great.


It's impressive to me, and in the nick of time, since my v1 has pathetic amount of play.

As you know, they are addictive


DSC03332-3 by unoh7, on Flickr
CV 50/1.1 A7r Hawks v1

FYI: weight of v3 = 48 grams

My cheapo rainbow imaging 20USD M adapter is 41 grams.



Dec 20, 2013 at 03:54 AM
Kadoorie
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p.150 #12 · p.150 #12 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Any one tried the lens correction app available to A7/R just yesterday, at least on this side of the earth. If it works, we may have wider choice.


Dec 20, 2013 at 06:05 AM
carstenw
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p.150 #13 · p.150 #13 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Does it have de-smearing.


Dec 20, 2013 at 08:44 AM
uhoh7
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p.150 #14 · p.150 #14 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


carstenw wrote:
Does it have de-smearing.


perhaps de-sneering would be nearly as useful

I find ZM18 different animal on A7:


SOME SHOTS HERE



Dec 20, 2013 at 10:41 PM
uhoh7
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p.150 #15 · p.150 #15 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


I snapped this quickly today with the ZM18, hand held @iso 6400. On top of that, I cranked the shadows up killed the highlights etc, so it's very noisy to say the least


DSC01043 by unoh7, on Flickr

But the shot suggests to me, that with a tripod I could have made a very nice one with this lens and the A7.



Dec 21, 2013 at 01:38 AM
partitura
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p.150 #16 · p.150 #16 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Is there a consensus about the Leica 28mm M Elmarit on the A7R? I don't mind fixing some magenta corners if that is the only problem.

I saw a post from Uhoh7 regarding this lens, but I wasn't sure whether he had it on the A7 or the A7R.



Dec 22, 2013 at 10:49 AM
naturephoto1
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p.150 #17 · p.150 #17 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


partitura wrote:
Is there a consensus about the Leica 28mm M Elmarit on the A7R? I don't mind fixing some magenta corners if that is the only problem.

I saw a post from Uhoh7 regarding this lens, but I wasn't sure whether he had it on the A7 or the A7R.


I don't think that the lens is very good on the A7r from what I have seen, but others should check in. I opted for the Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 which should be shipped to me shortly. I know the lens is bigger and heavier, but I wanted to avoid the issues with the M 28 Elmarit (several versions) lenses and the M 28mm Summicron ASPH.

Rich





Dec 22, 2013 at 10:53 AM
uhoh7
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p.150 #18 · p.150 #18 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


partitura wrote:
Is there a consensus about the Leica 28mm M Elmarit on the A7R? I don't mind fixing some magenta corners if that is the only problem.

I saw a post from Uhoh7 regarding this lens, but I wasn't sure whether he had it on the A7 or the A7R.


There are five versions

v 2 and 3 seem to be the best on the A7r, but the great asph does produce fantastic centers. I would like to see that lens on the A7



Dec 22, 2013 at 11:22 AM
partitura
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p.150 #19 · p.150 #19 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


uhoh7 - Did you test the 28mm asph version on the A7R? You mentioned the fantastic centers - how was the corner/edge performance? Or are you saying that overall the v2 or 3 were better than the asph?


Dec 22, 2013 at 11:31 AM
naturephoto1
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p.150 #20 · p.150 #20 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


partitura wrote:
uhoh7 - Did you test the 28mm asph version on the A7R? You mentioned the fantastic centers - how was the corner/edge performance? Or are you saying that overall the v2 or 3 were better than the asph?


Paul,

Over at L-Camera-Forum, Thomas Chen had found that the M 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V4 performed what seemed to be well at f8 to the edges. I can not recall the extreme corners. But, with all of the M Elmarit lenses as far as I know they will need to be stopped down to f8 or about there to perform their best and without much of any issue on the A7r. As I mentioned, that is a major reason that I went with the R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 which from what we have seen posted here on FM does OK at f4 at least for most any of our needs.

Rich



Dec 22, 2013 at 11:39 AM
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