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Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
  
 
Rickuz
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p.89 #1 · p.89 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


^ That's terrible.

Almost enough to make me change my avatar and rethink my upcoming purchase. =/

Looks like Sony should have spent more time on designing that shutter.



Dec 14, 2013 at 03:31 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.89 #2 · p.89 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Yes it's terrible. I have been reading a bit about it on both diglloyds and a Swedish site. It really makes me wonder if I'm buying it!! My intention was not to use any tele lenses on it. But it's different if you can't do it at all. And then the A7 is good with long lenses also


Dec 14, 2013 at 03:56 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #3 · p.89 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Indeed you will have to keep this in mind when shooting tele, even on tripod. And nothing can avoid it as there is no electronic curtain. Dunno if a firmware could change that, or make shutter close (LV off), wait a bit, then take the shot (would it be better ??).

If I understand correctly, actually when you fire the shutter :
- shutter close (was opened for LV or evf before)
- shutter open (start taking shot)
- shutter close again (end of the shot)
- shutter open again (to reactivate LV, but shot it taken anyway)

So this make three shutter movement creating vibrations ! Doing a loud and slow shutter with so long blackout etc, they could have designed it better, indeed !

Anyway, at least for my shooting, it won't bother me. But I never saw this with my 1DsII and MLU !



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:10 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.89 #4 · p.89 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


When I first got the camera I did a quick 'metabones tripod mounted' vibration test with my 70-200mm f/4 @200mm.
I shot from 8 minutes down to 1/250s and there was very little change in image sharpness. This was a close range test though. IS was "off". Surprisingly, the long exposures were all tack sharp. I used Sony's USB cable release.
After this quick test, I thought this vibration issue was actually a non-issue. I still have the samples but after so many vibration problem reports, I prefer re-testing this. I will use my 70-300L.
Fred



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:16 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #5 · p.89 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Fred, vibrations will begin to appear at 1/250s, where you stopped your test ;-) On long exposure for example, it won't appear (1/30sec vibrations on 30sec shot is non-issue).

For my test, camera where mounted on the 70-200 tripod collar.

Previously, mounted on metabones with 90TSE focused at around 3meters, it was a total non-issue, with razor sharp shots.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:23 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.89 #6 · p.89 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Fred, vibrations will begin to appear at 1/250s, where you stopped your test ;-) On long exposure for example, it won't appear (1/30sec vibrations on 30sec shot is non-issue).

For my test, camera where mounted on the 70-200 tripod collar.

Previously, mounted on metabones with 90TSE focused at around 3meters, it was a total non-issue, with razor sharp shots.


At what shutter speeds did you see blur? Shorter than 1/250s?

I tested at 1/250s, 1/125s, 1/60s, 1/30s, 1/15s...etc...full stops all the way to 8min. I could post the samples here but they look pretty identical at 100%. I will definitely re-test this.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:26 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #7 · p.89 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Strange ! It was around 1/50s 1/15s ! Maybe mounting on the 70-200 tripod collar was not a nice idea?
Will redo the test also (it is night here now)



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:35 PM
snapsy
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p.89 #8 · p.89 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Fred, vibrations will begin to appear at 1/250s, where you stopped your test ;-) On long exposure for example, it won't appear (1/30sec vibrations on 30sec shot is non-issue).

For my test, camera where mounted on the 70-200 tripod collar.

I tested my 70-200 f2.8 IS II @ 200mm from 1/160 down to 1/6 and didn't see any noticeable blur. It was mounted via the tripod collar.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:40 PM
snapsy
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p.89 #9 · p.89 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Strange ! It was around 1/50s 1/15s ! Maybe mounting on the 70-200 tripod collar was not a nice idea?
Will redo the test also (it is night here now)


Most cameras that exhibit actuation blur (be it mirror, shutter, etc..) will show the issue starting from around 1/80 down to maybe 1/8.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:41 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #10 · p.89 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


snapsy wrote:
I tested my 70-200 f2.8 IS II @ 200mm from 1/160 down to 1/6 and didn't see any noticeable blur. It was mounted via the tripod collar.


What could cause this then ??
In LV mode 14.4x just before the shot I couldn't see any movement on the LV.

I would like better doing something wrong, but what it could be ?

Also, you didn't tested with flashes ? flash light is just a 1/1000s and would void any test like this.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:44 PM
 

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Fred Miranda
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p.89 #11 · p.89 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Nikon's D800E with the same sensor does not offer electronic first curtain either.
Perhaps it's not possible with this current 36mp sensor without side-effects like ghosting, etc.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:52 PM
snapsy
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p.89 #12 · p.89 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
What could cause this then ??
In LV mode 14.4x just before the shot I couldn't see any movement on the LV.

I would like better doing something wrong, but what it could be ?

Also, you didn't tested with flashes ? flash light is just a 1/1000s and would void any test like this.


No flash. I assume IS was off for your test? Based on the results available online I'm thinking the shutter blur might be lens specific, perhaps due to the resonance of different lenses' mass. I see IS-blur issues on my A7R for certain lenses (like here), which I suspect is the IS reacting to camera-induced vibration and attempting to counter-balance it but the timing between shutter vibration to exposure is so fast that the IS is in transition when the exposure starts. This would imply the shutter vibration moves forward to the lens; if so some lenses might resonate that vibration back to the camera during the exposure depending on their mass. This would explain why I only see blur issues with IS maybe and why only certain lenses show blur even without IS for others. Of course this could be body variation too.



Dec 14, 2013 at 04:58 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #13 · p.89 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Yes but maybe they could offer a firmware option to delay first close and first open, to at least avoid vibration from first curtain closing (between LV and first opening for the shot).


Dec 14, 2013 at 04:59 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #14 · p.89 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Snapsy, yes IS was off.
I tested all equal (tripod etc) at 1/320s with and without IS, no difference at in sharpness.

Anyway, my 400mm was really worst scenario I guess. Very vibration sensitive shutter time, 400mm, far target distance... The nearest the target, the less you can see (angle of the vibration)



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:04 PM
Rickuz
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p.89 #15 · p.89 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Yes but maybe they could offer a firmware option to delay first close and first open, to at least avoid vibration from first curtain closing (between LV and first opening for the shot).


The A7R (or maybe the A8R, lol) will be my first camera from Sony. But I've heard that Sony almost never do firmware updates, even though there are lots of issues that can be fixed.



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:05 PM
snapsy
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p.89 #16 · p.89 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Yes but maybe they could offer a firmware option to delay first close and first open, to at least avoid vibration from first curtain closing (between LV and first opening for the shot).


I agree, I'm hoping Sony adds this. Btw it would be a delay between the 2nd curtain closing at the start of the sequence and the 1st curtain opening. Olympus MFT bodies have this configurable delay - it's called "anti-shock delay" in the menu.



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:10 PM
AGeoJO
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p.89 #17 · p.89 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


I have been playing with the new EF to NEX adapter I ordered and received from RJC. First off, I do not have anything to do with that company nor with Metabones. This is just my personal and brief evaluation on using that adapter on my A7r.

1. The fit of this adapter on both the EF and E-mount is actually really good. No crooked edge or mis-alignment with just eyeballing the adapter. I do have a Metabones adapter for a different mount and I am pleased with the fit of both adapters.

2. This adapter is very similar (or entirely the same?) to that of Metabones III in that they both allow AF with Canon EF lenses, they keep the EXIF data intact, and they enable IS on selected Canon lenses.

3. It didn’t come with any instruction but in general it is pretty easy to use. As I mentioned above, we take the convenience of using native lenses for granted and this adapter has quirks. Each time you change lenses, you actually have to turn off the camera. If you don’t do that the following lens will not be recognized and the camera thinks that you are using a MF lens. The IS still works though. I understood that it is the same with Metabones III. It works with pretty all lenses I have and tried. But I haven’t tried it on my super tele lenses but I wouldn’t do that anyway for real life shooting.

4. Operational-wise this adapter is great, maybe a little bit better in that respect than that of Metabones III. It has a rotating collar and you can change the orientation from landscape to portrait easily. Plus, the collar is raised enough that it doesn’t create any physical obstruction of using both 17 and 24mm TS-E lenses, even when they are fully shifted/tilted without any spacer. I used a general purpose Arka-style plate for this adapter and the whole contraption can be used to rest the combo on your palm for handheld shooting. One nitpick, the collar doesn’t have any marking that makes it more convenient to tell whether you orient your setup straight or not. I know you can you use the built-in electronic leveler but… The finish of the lens collar is OK, I have seen better made Chinese lens collars. There is no lining insider the collar; you are rubbing metal against metal, correctly more paint against paint when you rotate your combo. But I still think that it is more convenient than having to install an L-bracket under your adapter. You can remove the collar easily without any tools for handheld shooting with a small lens, like the 40mm pancake.

5. AF performance - Don’t expect wonder here. First, continues AF is not supported. Boy, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the AF performance of my 5D Mark III after playing with this adapter/A7r. OK, only single AF then. Here is my take, under low light shooting conditions, it struggles and hunts to get to achieve AF. In a few cases, it gives up after racking back and forth. The ironic thing is I could see on the EVF that it is in focus. Weird but what do I know. BTW, it seems that faster lenses focus faster than slower ones with less hunting. The exception is the 85mm f/1.2, it still hunts . Under good lighting conditions the AF gets faster and more sure-footed. But again, this is the general impression as there are few cases where still it doesn’t give me the AF confirmation although it is already in focus.

Final note - My intention of getting the A7r is to get a higher MP body that I can use my Canon EF lenses with. I like the A7r more for usage with shorter lenses, up to 135mm lens and of course, for my TS-E lenses. For anything else, I will still rely on my 5D Mark III, which performs admirably in the longer focal length range. And it feels neglected lately . I am sure I can get my setup to support the usage of a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 using both the adapter collar and the lens tripod collar to minimize vibration further. I do have an RRS MPR-CL II that I can use to do this. I just need a thin spacer to make it really fit perfectly but it is not that convenient to put it together and more items to take with you. So, I started questioning the merit of this setup. If it takes some effort to set this up at the convenience of your home and at your leisure, it would be 10X more difficult or 10X less convenient to do in the field under real life shooting conditions.







Dec 14, 2013 at 05:12 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #18 · p.89 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Yes exactly !

Could anyone do the same test with same lens ?
A7R+metabones+70-200LII mounted on lens tripod collar.
200mm, far subject.
Or even better, with 2xIII at around 100meters, 1/50s to see if we get same result ?
Just to be sure there is no user error in my test. I shoot tripod for ten years without problems, but we never know, and I wouldn't spread wrong facts.



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:14 PM
KiboOst
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p.89 #19 · p.89 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


AGeoJO, sounds nice !
Can you mount the vertical grip then ??



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:17 PM
AGeoJO
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p.89 #20 · p.89 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
AGeoJO, sounds nice !
Can you mount the vertical grip then ??


There seems to be plenty of room for that but I am not planning of getting one.



Dec 14, 2013 at 05:22 PM
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