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Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
  
 
millsart
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p.188 #1 · p.188 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I got an A7 today, after my past experience with the A7r. Got it for a fantastic price, and honestly I prefer it to the A7r, regardless of the cost.

If I didn't know it in advance, I don't think I could tell the build apart, and likely would of never noticed some dials are plastic. Same goes for the front plate, got out of your way to feel it and you can notice a slight difference, but hardly one that matters.

What did feel rather drastic, bearing in mind I don't have the A7r to directly compare any more, is how much more responsive the shutter feels on the A7 with the EFC.

Compared to my RX1, the A7r was pretty darn sluggish (RX1 has next to zero lag mind you) but still workable for most of the shooting I did with it.

AF speed wise, w/ 35 FE, also does have a noticeable speed improvement. I personally never though the A7r was bad by any means, and if anything it was a very nice improvement over the RX1, but again sans direct comparison, the A7 feels pretty darn snappy from what I remember. In good light, felt pretty instant, easily on par with my Fuji X bodies and m4/3 cameras, though not as good as m4/3 in low light, where Panasonic really is stellar.

24 meg files look good and sharpen up nicely, though not quite as impressive for pixel peeping as the AA-less A7r 36 meg files. Still pretty darn good though and really 24 meg is plenty for me, especially given the savings over the R version.

Don't see much of a difference in high ISO though, which came as a little bit of a surprise. Still pretty darn good at high ISO, just like most cameras on the market.

The S version may prove to be better by a good margin in that area, but I honestly can't really see myself ever needing to shoot ISO 400,000

For some the A7r still is the better choice, but try out both if you can and be honest with yourself about your needs. 36 meg AA-less files sound great in theory, but can be a bit demanding of technique. I always needed quite the higher shutter speed to get sharp shots handheld as I'm not too steady and boy did the R make it apparent.

I know a lot of us only like MF glass, work from a tripod, just shoot landscapes and artsy stuff etc, and that is fine and good, but the A7 feels a bit like it can do that stuff too, but also has pretty good response and decent enough AF to cross over to handling more "general" purpose camera duties, as well as any other mirrorless option.





Apr 11, 2014 at 01:13 AM
Jman13
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p.188 #2 · p.188 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Have you officially owned every mirrorless body now?


Apr 11, 2014 at 01:47 AM
millsart
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p.188 #3 · p.188 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Jman13 wrote:
Have you officially owned every mirrorless body now?


No Samsung (yet), assuming they even count. Looks like they actually have some fairly decent offerings though, surprising how little love they get

I pretty much have a cycle of m4/3, Fuji, Sony it seems, with some occasional Leica, Nikon V series, Ricoh and Sigma thrown in.

I remember way back in the day getting the first m4/3 G1 and GH1, and the original NEX5. Its really amazing how far the mirrorless market has come in what is really not that long of time period.

Going from the G1 (12 meg, 2x crop) to the likes of an A7r with 36meg FF, 2.36 million dot EVF etc in the same basic body size is crazy.

I will add that I always loved the flip out and twist G series LCD's though, too bad that didn't catch on with more brands, ever so handy for BOTH portraits and landscape orientation



Apr 11, 2014 at 02:01 AM
wingsdomain
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p.188 #4 · p.188 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Thanks Millsart, that helps alot, now the decision is whether to buy the kit 28-70 f.3.5-5.6 or the 24-70 f/4.0 version and whether the f/4.0 with it's lackluster reviews is worth the extra bucks keeping in mind that this lens would only be a holdover until a better offering for the a7r comes to market. -W


Apr 11, 2014 at 02:41 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.188 #5 · p.188 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


While I enjoy my A7 a lot, of all the cameras I've owned in my life, the E-M1 so far feels the most complete and closest to what I would design if I made cameras for a living.

Small things like the EVF eye sensor being disabled on screen tilt, extreme weather sealing, and the 4:3 view taking up the entirety of the EVF are greater than the sum of their parts. It feels like a $500 chef's knife. Just expensive enough to be well thought out, exquisitely balanced, and practically made without going into luxury territory.

The A7 sometimes feels, on the other hand, like a very well engineered design that got a bit beat up during a committee design review by marketing, product, and accountants who knew nothing of cameras.



Apr 11, 2014 at 02:54 AM
millsart
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p.188 #6 · p.188 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
While I enjoy my A7 a lot, of all the cameras I've owned in my life, the E-M1 so far feels the most complete and closest to what I would design if I made cameras for a living.

Small things like the EVF eye sensor being disabled on screen tilt, extreme weather sealing, and the 4:3 view taking up the entirety of the EVF are greater than the sum of their parts. It feels like a $500 chef's knife. Just expensive enough to be well thought out, exquisitely balanced, and practically made without going into luxury territory.

The A7 sometimes feels,
...Show more


There are certainly a good number of things on the A7(r) that make you sort of shake your head and wonder who approved it, like the location of the C2 button located right above the lip of the EVF, why they didn't do a shutter button falling more ergonomically on the grip, why you can freely assign some many functions but then certain ones that seem quite useful aren't an option for a given button etc

Luckily though, the cameras both produce very nice files with tons of DR, and if they can produce more lenses in the vein of the 55/1.8, excellent native optics. Really just needs a nice wide prime or ultra wide zoom, and something like a native e-mount 85 1.4 Planar and 135 SFT and I'd be set



Apr 11, 2014 at 04:08 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.188 #7 · p.188 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


21, 24, 35, 50, 85, 100, 135 and a decent 24-50 zoom and I'm set.

All weather sealed. I thought the A7 was weather sealed but Sony doesn't actually claim it, everyone else does and tear downs reveal no gaskets in the body.



Apr 11, 2014 at 04:10 AM
millsart
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p.188 #8 · p.188 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I think they are more weather resistant than anything. You can see things like a small lip on the CF door, but its short of a proper gasket. Better than nothing, but I wouldn't go take one in the shower with me.

I really don't need more than just a little extra piece of mind should I happen to get briefly caught in some rain or something. Regardless of if the camera can take it or not, I never personally would be out taking pictures in the pouring rain for fun.

Keeping the front element dry always presents such an issue as well, regardless of what the camera can take. I was shooting collegiate rowing last week from a chase boat, in pouring rain/sleet and 30 degree temps, and while I had a good rain cover on my already quite weather sealed Nikon's, it was just impossible to keep the water off the front element, even with the massive hood on my 400mm lens. Just kept getting to the point where I couldn't focus or even see. Get the front element wet and usually it means the end of shooting as its always tough to get dried off and not streaky etc.

I'd always gladly take more sealing, don't get me wrong, but just don't find the camera/lens to usually be the weak link in the system. Its either keeping the photographer and/or the front element dry lol



Apr 11, 2014 at 04:28 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.188 #9 · p.188 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I've taken some of my favorite pictures in very harsh weather conditions so it's somewhat important to me. This was during Hurricane Sandy.

http://i.imgur.com/WXVcl.jpg

You're right though, you have to use a telescoping hood and have a dry microfiber towel always ready. I use XS-Pro filters with nano coatings that seem to be hydrophobic.

Weather sealing also concerns me when shooting in the dust or desert or really just very humid conditions like in a jungle hike. Even a mountain snow hike, I would want weather sealing in case it starts snowing or I fall in the snow (happens a lot). Bit of a let down the A7 isn't truly weather sealed.



Apr 11, 2014 at 04:39 AM
sebboh
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p.188 #10 · p.188 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
21, 24, 35, 50, 85, 100, 135 and a decent 24-50 zoom and I'm set.

All weather sealed. I thought the A7 was weather sealed but Sony doesn't actually claim it, everyone else does and tear downs reveal no gaskets in the body.


i wouldn't buy any of those, and i've never had a camera i haven't shot in the rain (including the a7 which i've only owned a few weeks).

the camera's both terrible and awesome at the same time. so much better for me than anything thats been produced yet with digital, yet so many silly design flaws.




Apr 11, 2014 at 08:02 AM
 

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wingsdomain
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p.188 #11 · p.188 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Any chance Tamron or Sigma might start porting over some Fullframe E-mount lenses? They have a few lenses for Sony's A-mounts and I know you can use them with an adapter, but they toss out OSS for the A-mounts and so no OSS for the E-mount with adapter. Would be nice if they started a new series of E-mount lenses with OSS intact. -W


Apr 11, 2014 at 06:52 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.188 #12 · p.188 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I would imagine there will be some amount of redesigned involved to remove the space for the mirror and add a mobile element for OSS.


Apr 11, 2014 at 06:56 PM
Jman13
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p.188 #13 · p.188 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


sebboh wrote:
the camera's both terrible and awesome at the same time. so much better for me than anything thats been produced yet with digital, yet so many silly design flaws.



I don't think I'd ever use the word terrible to describe the A7(r/s)...it's one of those things that is just not 'quite' there for me. When I tested the A7, I liked shooting with it far more than with any other Sony camera I've used. It worked very well for me. However, there was something, and it's rather intangible. Something that just didn't quite click with me. I usually shoot with my review gear for a week (the Fuji 10-24mm that I'm reviewing now is an odd exception, as I have it for 10 days). I know if I really like a piece of gear by how I feel at the end of the review period. If I am bummed that I have to send it back, I know I really like it. If I don't care about sending it back, then, despite all the merits in the world, it's not something that clicked with me. (Note, this doesn't mean that piece of gear would get a bad review...just that it may not be something that I want to pursue for my own kit bag).

When I was nearing the end of my A7 review, I was very excited...because I wanted to use my FujI X-E2 again. When I reviewed the X-T1...I was mad that I had to use my X-E2 again. It's not something that I can really put into pure words, but the Sony cameras, no matter how good, have yet to give rise to me that feeling of "I love shooting with this." I loved the A7 files, the camera was responsive, it felt good in the hand, AF was great, the viewfinder was excellent...and I didn't really enjoy shooting with it all that much. Those are the personal things that make or break a camera for me, and whether something is technically superior or not may or may not have a final impact on whether I want it or not...it's whether I enjoy using it and it can add to my photography. If both boxes are checked...then it's a go...if either one isn't checked, then it's a no-go.



Apr 11, 2014 at 07:01 PM
Evan W
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p.188 #14 · p.188 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I tried my Zeiss ZM Biogon 35/2 on the A7r and the left and right edges (the whole edge, not just the corners) looks smeary and out of focus. I think it only happens wide open. Are any of these lenses better in that respect? Voigtlander Nokton 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.4, or the M-Rokkor 40mm? Looking for something small


Apr 11, 2014 at 10:17 PM
millsart
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p.188 #15 · p.188 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Evan W wrote:
I tried my Zeiss ZM Biogon 35/2 on the A7r and the left and right edges (the whole edge, not just the corners) looks smeary and out of focus. I think it only happens wide open. Are any of these lenses better in that respect? Voigtlander Nokton 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.4, or the M-Rokkor 40mm? Looking for something small


35/2.8 FE Sonnar is quite small and as light as your going to get at less than 5 ounces (plus no need for an adapter) plus its sharp across the frame even wide open

You can pick it up for around $650ish these days, even less used



Apr 12, 2014 at 01:52 AM
Dpedraza
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p.188 #16 · p.188 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


anyone interested in the Mitakon or are the canon ltms still the better option?

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/04/10/mitakon-50mm-f0-95-full-frame-e-mount-said-come-month-reasonable-price/#.U0nPPPldWuI



Apr 12, 2014 at 11:44 PM
millsart
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p.188 #17 · p.188 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
This does not look too great.




Does it really matter in the real world though ? I mean, does anyone think a picture of their kids was ruined because they weren't all in the purple area and one of them was in the blueish area ?

Comes down to if we take pictures of people, places and things, or if we take test shots to convert into 3D graphs. As I've often said, I think we all too often miss the forest for the trees when it comes to photography.

Do we take satisfaction from taking a great photo in terms of composition, emotion, et al, or do we take satisfaction from taking a technically "perfect" photo, even if its of a boring subject for the purpose of a test ?

Its like someones kid could be taking their first steps but we can't be bothered to shoot it because we haven't figured out which of our 15 different 50mm would capture it with the best rendering and across the frame sharpness.

By the time we get it all sorted out our kids are grown and out of the house but some 5000 test shots and 398 pages of forum debate later we at least have a "good" lens.



Apr 13, 2014 at 04:10 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.188 #18 · p.188 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
This does not look too great.

I checked DxO cores of all lenses vs. FE35 (and FE55) and seems they did better than any Canon or Nikon lens [except 200/2, 300/2.8, 400/2.8], part of the result is camera of course. They didn't even went to purple, only lenses like Zeiss 2/135, Nikon 200/2, etc. did. So I'm not exactly sure what is the issue. Look for example comparison Canon 35L vs FE35, Canon barely gets to blue in dead center, definitely no purple...

Also based on real shooting I would say that FE35 doesn't suffer from lack of resolution, or even uneven distribution of resolution. There are really many bigger issues like color casts, than resolution - due to which I prefer to shoot FE35 with A7 over added resolution of A7r.

FlyPenFly wrote:
It matters because it's $800.

I'm considering if the $300 C/Y Zeiss 35mm f2.8 could possibly be better. Sure, no AF but maybe not so bad.

I guess if you look at Roger's numbers, it does seem to match up. It seems like no 35mm lenses have great corners on FF.

I doubt Distagon T* 2.8/35 would have better resolution, or more even field - please check the MTF. But C/Y version has pretty nice rendering style, and I think I would prefer it's boke over FE35's.

Samuli



Apr 13, 2014 at 04:52 PM
Dpedraza
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p.188 #19 · p.188 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
It matters because it's $800.

I'm considering if the $300 C/Y Zeiss 35mm f2.8 could possibly be better. Sure, no AF but maybe not so bad.

I guess if you look at Roger's numbers, it does seem to match up. It seems like no 35mm lenses have great corners on FF.


well if you're going mf I don't know if it would be on your radar but the canon 35mm f2 ltm seems like a decent performer. Mine is a little beat up so I don't know if she's 100% great but the images seemed pretty decent. It's VERY small too so you won't notice the few oz added to your kit. Only downside they cost a little more than the c/y Zeiss 35mm 2.8

flickr search A7 with canon 35mm f2 ltm
https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=canon+35mm+f2+ltm&cm=sony%2Falpha-a7

I liked his examples
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sushicam/11169797723


Not the best examples.. I may have missed focus.
Amelia by dpedraza15, on Flickr

Amelia by dpedraza15, on Flickr


Edited on Apr 13, 2014 at 05:30 PM · View previous versions



Apr 13, 2014 at 05:18 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.188 #20 · p.188 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
I checked DxO cores of all lenses vs. FE35 (and FE55) and seems they did better than any Canon or Nikon lens [except 200/2, 300/2.8, 400/2.8], part of the result is camera of course. They didn't even went to purple, only lenses like Zeiss 2/135, Nikon 200/2, etc. did. So I'm not exactly sure what is the issue. Look for example comparison Canon 35L vs FE35, Canon barely gets to blue in dead center, definitely no purple...

Also based on real shooting I would say that FE35 doesn't suffer from lack of resolution, or even uneven distribution of resolution. There
...Show more

Quite correct sir. Using that tool, all the Zeiss, Nikon, and Canon 35mm on full frame do terribly compared to the the FE 35mm F2.8.

Even the Zeiss Sonnar in the RX1 doesn't come close... I do wonder if this is a consequence though of being on the A7R?



Apr 13, 2014 at 05:24 PM
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