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Archive 2013 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Evan Baines
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

When I revised the FAQ today, I gave a lot of thought to the sometimes-heated threads that have sprung up lately about business, and how to do it well. I have a suspicion that a lot of folks are struggling out there (although of course some are doing quite well), and that may be adding to the emotional quality of some of these threads. I tried to offer a constructive, general framework for considering one's business and one's market position, along with observations on the general state of the market. I would value any constructive feedback or thoughts that you all have in an effort to improve the FAQ for everyone.

****

Question: I am concerned about my business! What should I do?

Answer: Wedding photography is an extraordinarily challenging industry right now, and it is unlikely to become less so in the foreseeable future. Wedding photography is an unregulated industry with few barriers to entry, a very short training period to achieve adequate results (by most people’s standards), and an endless supply of new shooters who perceive photography to be a fun way to earn some money on the side. The general industry trend has been one of tremendous downward pressure on the middle of the market, while the upper end of the market is somewhat less affected. The average consumer of wedding photography typically lacks the ability to differentiate fine gradations of photographic quality, and the average wedding photographer lacks the ability to differentiate his/her business sufficiently to avoid the inevitable price comparisons. Further, the average consumer in many/most areas simply lacks the budget to provide a photographer with the rates necessary for a full-time income. Therefore, there seem to be three viable strategies for long-term stability in this business:

1. Go or stay part-time
2. Focus on generating high volume in value-based photography and grow large enough to reap benefits from economies of scale (IE become a chain or multi-shooter studio).
3. Focus on the high-end market.

For most independent shooters, this last is the most appealing in theory. However, most photographers don’t really understand the high-end market and the customers that comprise it. A thorough study of how other luxury industries and businesses work would be of supreme benefit, combined with an understanding of any prevailing culture of the wealthy in the area. While many photographers tend to have the mindset that they just want to “do their thing” and the world should not only beat a path to their door but also be grateful for having done so, this is unlikely to be a sustainable approach in most high-end markets, especially during the “breaking into the market” phase.

While I may sound like I am against “doing your thing,” that’s not really the case. What I am advising is that your business decisions should be a synthesis of what you would like to provide and what the market demands. Most photographers adhere almost religiously to the styles, approaches, and products that are already ubiquitous in the industry and then protest that they are actually offering something unique. There is a strong case to be made for being willing to consider approaches to wedding photography (both art and business) that are unorthodox. A business can certainly succeed by offering to fill customer’s needs that they didn’t even realize they had or radically changing the framework of the photographer/client relationship, but at the end of the day all successful businesses must offer clients something with which they are satisfied. It is regrettably common to see a photographer who mimics the style and practices of all his competitors and yet STILL refuses to adapt in response to the client’s stated needs or goals because of a perceived slight against his/her “artistic integrity.”

In summary:
-Offer something different than everyone else, in terms of product or process
-Make sure this difference fulfills the needs of a viable market segment with enough money to support your financial goals
-Ensure that you are communicating not only what you are doing differently, but how this difference better fulfills potential clients’ needs.

Oct 15, 2013 at 03:13 PM

Ziffl3
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Thanks for the incite Evan. Really appreciate the time and effort here and other times you have given back.

I am squarely between #1 & #3 (more on #1) and even have worked for #2.

Some very good information to chew on.

Oct 15, 2013 at 03:37 PM

ricardovaste
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Thanks for the efforts Evan. I think this is a good summary, and I'm not sure you can ask for much else.

Oct 15, 2013 at 03:57 PM

Ghost
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

These are good thoughts. Thank you for maintaining the FAQ. Please keep it up. Lots of value there!

Oct 15, 2013 at 05:40 PM

tobicus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Good advice here.

Oct 15, 2013 at 08:06 PM

sboerup
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

I'm with Evan on everything, spot on and well stated!

I absolutely agree with #1. I think the long term viability of photography being the sole income is rapidly diminishing. If you're single and care free and enjoy traveling, then I think it can be a viable and incredibly rewarding full-time job.

The potentially viable option is be married to your business partner who also is a talented photographer, and you have a combined personality that makes you desirable to be around. I think the full-timers who will do best in the future are the husband/wife teams.

But the, after all is said and done, your ability to "retire" will be dependent on your current retirement/savings strategy. It is highly unlikely that your business will be worth anything once you are out of the picture, so its not like you can rely on building an asset that can be later sold for as sizeable "nest egg". Can you guarantee you won't be like the film-shooters of yesteryear who couldn't keep up with societal trends, and be left like Nokia when the next iPhone rolls around? Nokia was in demand, and quite successful, and then before you saw it coming, were obsolete.

So in my opinion, #2 is really only the true long-term plan. Unless your #3 involves shooting 15 $50k weddings a year, and you can keep it up for 4-5 years.

Oct 15, 2013 at 09:16 PM

NYstyles
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

I decided to stay 'part time'. I made the decision this past year. Im tired of fighting so to speak. Im self employed its just not only photography. I sell crafts and do design works to sustain a full income. My craft niche is brides! lol They balance well and I feel jobless.

I still make my living doing arty fartsy things and that's all i ever wanted. I can craft till Im dead too! ha ha

Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 PM

TrailboyWales
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Never a truer word spoken. The market has changed dramatically since I started.

There's an enormous snob attitude in the UK to part time photographers who also earn income in other ways. Tough, I say. One organization is only open if you can prove your income is made solely from photography, but you wouldn't believe it improves standards by looking at some of the photography of its members.

Oct 16, 2013 at 03:17 AM

CW100
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Evan Baines wrote:
Answer: Wedding photography is an extraordinarily challenging industry right now, and it is unlikely to become less so in the foreseeable future. ds.

Wedding photography was an extraordinarily challenging industry years ago!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/business/media/30photogs.html?pagewanted=all

Oct 16, 2013 at 07:05 AM

Brian Virts
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm always asking myself "does being a wedding photographer fit my lifestyle". And if I can answer yes to that, then everything else seems to fall into place.

Oct 16, 2013 at 08:50 AM

dmacmillan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Evan Baines wrote:
Further, the average consumer in many/most areas simply lacks the budget to provide a photographer with the rates necessary for a full-time income.

Few weekend warriors can differentiate between the "mad money" they make on the side and what it takes to do it full time. All they see is they earned $800 or so for "a couple of hours work". They don't think about all the hidden costs and time they don't factor in.

While there are some full time photographers who make a very good living, the overwhelming percentage, especially the "average Joe" photographer in a smaller community has always earned a lower than median salary. Check Department of Labor or even PPA numbers.

Competition from part timers has always been out there. When I was a teenager in the '60's, I shot for one of the TV photographers who moonlighted shooting weddings. After I graduated and became a full time professional, I knew of a dozen part time wedding photographers. Since my primary work was commercial/industrial and weddings were an unadvertised side business to my "real" photography, I didn't care.

There's been discussion of trying for the high end market as a business strategy. That's all well and good, but there are two major hurdles. Few of us live in markets where the numbers of high end weddings could sustain a full time photographer. The good news it that with the internet, it would be possible to get jobs from other areas of the country. The problem with that is you have to be exceptionally good to get the reputation that would lead to shooting in the high end market. Frankly, very few photographers have the talent. We get spoiled here by seeing really good work from the site's best photographers. I contend we often see the best of the best, especially when the work is from a high end wedding.

Oct 16, 2013 at 09:26 AM

DONIV
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

I agree with 1

I think to pull off number 2, it should be noted, you must have amazing sales/business/management and be able to recognize talent/skills in a second. Also, you should have been able to run a successful studio/bus yourself already. Your business should also be running super lean and be a well-oiled machine to make this successful. If you’re missing any of these points, I think you (as most photographers seem to be) will have get-by money, think you’re making money, and you will be eating ketchup sandwiches through your retirement.

I almost don’t think 3 is not worth mentioning or at least it can be misleading to others. Reason being…
-i don’t think there is much of a high-end market. That few percent is not worth the time and effort to get. -those clients almost always come from wedding planners and there seems to a lot of politics in that world when your talking about all that money.
-takes many years to get in that world.
-you won’t ever feel comfortable at the beginning of the year
-you must have best in class work/great networking/be able to play politics/ developed a great reputation/ have great branding skills/have that winner personality (kinda like O’bama..he gets along with thugs on the street/moms/white collar/blue collar/politicians…ect)…if you’re missing any of these points, I don’t think you will ever be an exclusive “high-end wedding photographer”

I once asked a very successful self –made businessman / CEO,” what is the winning formula?”

He said, “a fair price and you must exceed your clients expectations every time.” I think this is the winning formula with wedding photography.

What a fair price is? Many photogs I come across never actually crunched the numbers to find out what there cost of running a business/retirement ect…(WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!) I think if you actually crunched the numbers (the right way…former accountant here), you will see you need to be making 5-6k a wedding…then up-sell from there. If you really think about it, (generally speaking here) in just about every market, it’s the guys that charge at least that much (actually more) that last long term. Everyone else seems to fizzle away…cause they always felt they were making money, but never were. They never knew they weren’t cause they never bothered to crunch the numbers. One thing to note, you don’t see those guys that “made it” long term driving a Ferrari that charges 7-10k a wedding.

Oct 16, 2013 at 10:34 AM

morby
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

Are there any positive stories from wedding photographers? The doom and gloom freaks me out and everyone seems to be talking about it. I've been shooting weddings since 2001, but didn't get serious until 2009. My experience has been a really positive one, and things seem to get easier year after year. Couples seem to be spending more and questioning price less. I can't help but wonder if this is a phase and I'll see what everyone is talking about at some point.

Is anyone else out there experiencing what I've been experiencing? I'm an optimist, which sometimes hinders me from seeing what may come down the road.

There are a few things that I'm doing to prepare myself for the future. Some things like aggressive saving for retirement and not carrying debt. I'm also about to launch a second business called Party Cam. It's a photo booth business. I hope to launch other businesses in the future so that I'm not putting all of my eggs in one basket, just in case wedding photography doesn't last long term.

Oct 16, 2013 at 10:50 AM

TRReichman
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

DONIV wrote:
I almost don’t think 3 is not worth mentioning or at least it can be misleading to others. Reason being…
-i don’t think there is much of a high-end market. That few percent is not worth the time and effort to get. -those clients almost always come from wedding planners and there seems to a lot of politics in that world when your talking about all that money.

HUGE misconception. The high-end of the market is where all the growth is and is the portion of the market that is most underserved. Everyone is trying to focus on the same segment of the market, that's why prices are depressed. There are a ton of demographics that no one is paying attention to because it isn't easy or popular but is it what the market needs. I'm glad most people think this though, it has made my efforts enormously easier.

Yeah, there are politics. So what? Anything this is worth doing and that is lucrative isn't easy.

DONIV wrote:
-takes many years to get in that world.

Another big misconception. I moved 2.5 years ago and had to rebuild my business. I think it is fair to say that I'm at or approaching the top-end of the market here. In 2.5 years. That's nothing in business time. Longevity isn't what gets you there - appropriateness does.

DONIV wrote:
-you won’t ever feel comfortable at the beginning of the year

Hate to break it to anyone but that's true regardless of what segment you target. You might say that you wouldn't be comfortable but it just depends on what makes you comfortable. Sometimes high-end weddings book a month or 2 out. Also, it is nice to know that with certain relationships you will get work brought to you instead of having to always chase it down. Just a different type of marketing approach, not better or worse.

DONIV wrote:
-you must have best in class work/great networking/be able to play politics/ developed a great reputation/ have great branding skills/have that winner personality

What business doesn't require this?

DONIV wrote:
I once asked a very successful self –made businessman / CEO,” what is the winning formula?”

He said, “a fair price and you must exceed your clients expectations every time.” I think this is the winning formula with wedding photography.

Ugh. This is a mass-market approach. You can't consistently exceed expectations every time. This is one of the old business chestnuts that I hate the most and that I think causes the most damage. Once you exceed expectations the bar raises (particularly in a referral business). So you're always raising the bar (is the compensation raising alongside)? It is far better to set expectations and deliver exactly what you promised instead of under-promising and trying to over-compensate in ways that may not matter at all. Obfuscating value isn't a great business plan.

DONIV wrote:
What a fair price is? Many photogs I come across never actually crunched the numbers to find out what there cost of running a business/retirement ect…(WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!) I think if you actually crunched the numbers (the right way…former accountant here), you will see you need to be making 5-6k a wedding…then up-sell from there. If you really think about it, (generally speaking here) in just about every market, it’s the guys that charge at least that much (actually more) that last long term. Everyone else seems to fizzle away…cause they always felt they were making money, but never...Show more →

Yup.

- trr

Oct 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM

TRReichman
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

morby wrote:
Are there any positive stories from wedding photographers? The doom and gloom freaks me out and everyone seems to be talking about it. I've been shooting weddings since 2001, but didn't get serious until 2009. My experience has been a really positive one, and things seem to get easier year after year. Couples seem to be spending more and questioning price less. I can't help but wonder if this is a phase and I'll see what everyone is talking about at some point.

Is anyone else out there experiencing what I've been experiencing? I'm an optimist, which sometimes hinders me...Show more →

I think you're on the natural trajectory. This business is relatively great in your 20s. The concern that many people have is getting older, feeling less relevant, and being less interested in a high-volume approach. When I was in my 20s I was fine shooting 30-40 weddings a year and shooting other sessions all week. I'm less suited to that approach at this point in my life. Still wondering what is going to happen in my 50's, much less 70-80s?

- trr

Oct 16, 2013 at 11:01 AM

morby
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

TRReichman wrote:
I think you're on the natural trajectory. This business is relatively great in your 20s. The concern that many people have is getting older, feeling less relevant, and being less interested in a high-volume approach. When I was in my 20s I was fine shooting 30-40 weddings a year and shooting other sessions all week. I'm less suited to that approach at this point in my life. Still wondering what is going to happen in my 50's, much less 70-80s?

- trr

I'm 33 with two kids. I'm not sure if that makes a difference

Oct 16, 2013 at 11:03 AM

TRReichman
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

morby wrote:
I'm 33 with two kids. I'm not sure if that makes a difference

You might be exception! Do you have thought about how your business will adjust in the next 5-15 years?

- trr

Oct 16, 2013 at 11:06 AM

morby
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

TRReichman wrote:
You might be exception! Do you have thought about how your business will adjust in the next 5-15 years?

- trr

I think about that all the time, but it's hard to tell what may come down the road. My hope is that I'll stay relevant for years to come and continue shooting weddings at a high volume. I took Cliff Mautner's workshop a few years back and he still shoots 50 weddings a year. I don't expect to be a Cliff Mautner, but in his 50s he's still shooting a high volume and doing a bunch of other things.

Knowing that wedding photography might not last long term, my current plan is to create other avenues of income (like the photo booth business) and save as much as I can. I also have a degree in art education, so another plan is to teach photography down the road if wedding photography starts to fade.

The positive thing about wedding photography is that you can see your demise coming from far away. It's not like I'm going to get fired tomorrow and not see it coming. As of today I have 30 weddings for 2014, so I'm at least confident that I will last one more year.

Oct 16, 2013 at 11:19 AM

Brian Virts
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

5% of the photographers on this forum will be shooting weddings in their 50s. Cliff (who just turned 50) is definitely the exception, and he'll be the first to tell you NOT to be a wedding photographer. haha

I'm 43, and let me just tell you guys in your 20s-30s, it gets way more difficult as you get older, especially if you have kids. I've made my millions doing IT work, my COL is very low (like 25k annual), and I own my Historic property, a fat 401k, my son has a disability and is now covered by the state. I've gotten very small. It affords me to shoot 10-15 weddings, and misc. shoots per year, plus other ventures. I plan to maybe shoot for a few more years (depends on physical ability) and then who knows, maybe IT, maybe teaching.

Everyone is different, and it's a moving target. Things change, people evolve etc. You have to do what's right for you and your family.

Oct 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM

TheGE
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · "So the Phone isn't Ringing"

A nice preface to what would actually take a tome I think you'd agree, Evan.

sboerup wrote:
But the, after all is said and done, your ability to "retire" will be dependent on your current retirement/savings strategy. It is highly unlikely that your business will be worth anything once you are out of the picture, so its not like you can rely on building an asset that can be later sold for as sizeable "nest egg".

Wedding photography isn't one of those businesses that makes millionaires. Like many other careers, one actually may not get wealthy through earnings but through capital appreciation investing their earnings. My dad was always a bricklayer but by investing long term in stocks and real estate over a few decades became a multimillionaire.

TRReichman wrote:
Ugh. This is a mass-market approach. You can't consistently exceed expectations every time. This is one of the old business chestnuts that I hate the most and that I think causes the most damage. Once you exceed expectations the bar raises (particularly in a referral business). So you're always raising the bar (is the compensation raising alongside)? It is far better to set expectations and deliver exactly what you promised instead of under-promising and trying to over-compensate in ways that may not matter at all. Obfuscating value isn't a great business plan.

Read "Fooled By Randomness" by Nassim Taleb and you'll see how most self made business people credit things erroneously for their success.

That being said, one can set the same expectations with each client and then systematically "exceed" them.

Like how Disney does it.

TRReichman wrote:
I think you're on the natural trajectory. This business is relatively great in your 20s. The concern that many people have is getting older, feeling less relevant, and being less interested in a high-volume approach. When I was in my 20s I was fine shooting 30-40 weddings a year and shooting other sessions all week. I'm less suited to that approach at this point in my life. Still wondering what is going to happen in my 50's, much less 70-80s?

Though being in your 50's and 60's if you're in good shape and healthy you'll likely be in better shape than most guys half your age. The rest will either have died or can't keep up anymore. But you can't shoot indeifintely and you have to be ready in case something happens physically to you. Putting other things into motion as a next career or careers, creating businesses, is smart to do as we live longer and could potentially outlive our savings.

Revelency to working with young couples could be an issue IF you come across as "old" in your demeanor, attitude and/or look old. People in their 20's think 30 is old, people in their 30's think 40 is old, everyone under 50 thinks 50 is ancient. When I turned 50 people thought I was 35 so it's about appearance, attitude and demeanor. It's not about the number. Steve Jobs was in his 50's and very relevant to younger generations and my guess is he would've continued doing so.

Oct 16, 2013 at 02:39 PM

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