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Archive 2013 · Fuji X System ?'s

  
 
allstarimaging
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Fuji X System ?'s


Hello,
I have an X100 and the XE-1 + 35 1.4 & 14 2.8.. For those that are shooting Fuji gear I have a couple of questions or looking for thoughts and opinions...

1) Do you look at the Sony NEX move to a full frame sensor and wonder if the gear you are buying will have any value in a few years?

2) I'm not a engineer so the question I have is: Is it possible that the Fuji lenses would work on a full frame Fuji sensor if they ever roll one out?

3) I'm considering selling my X100 and XE-1 and lenses and just moving to the X100s as my only and everyday camera to really simplify my shooting and gear. Bad move or have you found the X100s to be that good?

Thanks
Jack



Oct 09, 2013 at 07:20 AM
Elusivesouls
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Fuji X System ?'s


I can't answer #1 or #2, but on the matter of #3... (I see you are not new and probably know this already, but just in case):

Camera kits, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony, or Fuji, are built around the quality of lenses you have available and own.

The bodies of those kits come and go. In example, you can own a Fuji X-E1, then the X-E2, and then the X-E3, etc. and always have the same lenses carry over from body to body.

Camera manufacturers are building their systems on the lenses, not the bodies. They want you to keep swapping out bodies and they keep you loyal by having you invest in their high quality lenses. You are far less likely to sell off several lenses than you are one single body and they know that.

The X100S, while it is a fantastic camera and has its place in the world, will eventually become out dated or you will become bored with the focal length. You will then need to sell both lens and body.

To sum it up:

Bodies come and go. Lenses stay with you for as long as you are loyal to that brand, for whatever reasons that may be for.

I say it's a bad move. You will eventually regret it. The X100s is, in my opinion, a compliment to a system but not the system itself.



Oct 09, 2013 at 07:27 AM
carstenw
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Fuji X System ?'s


1) I suspect that the Sony FF system will not gain much traction in the general market. A few people around here will be ecstatic, of course. Sony has not proven to be behind their systems as systems, and even the A-mount is not fully fleshed out yet, after how long? The NEX system has no serious tele or flash options, and a spotty lens lineup, and so on. I would not worry excessively. It is of course possible that they will do something fantastic, but I consider the likelihood low.

2) It is entirely possible, but it is likely that it will be in a crop mode, where you get a smaller image. Few lenses have enough image circle to spare to accommodate a larger sensor in style.

3) Since you own both X100 and X-E1, I doubt there is anyone here who would know better than you. Are you happy with the X100 body? Are you happy with the X-E1 image quality and post-processing? If yes to both, and you think you can get by with just a single lens, plus maybe the wide adapter, then go for it. In the worst case, you will add another body later, not a big deal.



Oct 09, 2013 at 07:33 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Fuji X System ?'s


- As a user of both Fuji X and Micro 4/3, I have some worry that one or both of the systems will eventually disappear. Thing is, ANY system could disappear in the future. Fujifilm is showing a fair amount of commitment to the system, and so i think at least in the near term (next 5 years), it's fine. Thing is...even if they discontinue stuff, it's not like they stop being good cameras and lenses. You could continue to use them for years.

- I'm fairly sure most of the Fuji lenses do not cover a full frame image circle.

- I haven't used the X100s, so I can't comment, but I know the speed improvements to responsiveness on the X-M1 are similar to the improvements made on the X100s (minus the phase detection sites). It's a nice step up in responsiveness, especially with regards to writing to the memory card.

I for one am not really concerned about the FF NEX for two main reasons.

1) Lenses for the FF NEX will either be slower and relatively compact (what they seem to be going for at launch with a 35/2.8 and 55/1.8) or they will be faster and huge. If you shoot a lot of landscape work, this will be awesome for you, because you'd stop down anyway, and the better image quality and detail from a 36MP FF sensor would be pretty great with a good lens. However, for a lot of things, you have no real advantage over the APS-C cams...as in indoor settings, you'll be using slower lenses at higher ISO, negating any DOF or noise advantage over the Fuji X cams...or, if they use huge SLR sized fast lenses, I personally have no desire to go that route, since I went mirrorless for the size.

2) The image quality I get out of the Fuji X line is already as good as I need at the moment, and probably will ever really need. I just shot some stuff in super dim light at ISO 3200 and 6400, with occasional forays into 25600, and I was still rather amazed by the image quality out of the Fujis. I don't shoot in situations where I personally will get a whole lot more out of it.

All that said, if the entire mirrorless industry collapses to the FF Sony over the next 5 years, I could see switching, but I don't think that will happen (and I sure hope it doesn't...competition in this space is one of the things that has really driven the systems to be so good).



Oct 09, 2013 at 07:35 AM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Fuji X System ?'s


Since ff seems to be in your sights and are considering the x100s, why not get the sony rx1?


Oct 09, 2013 at 07:41 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Fuji X System ?'s


Hi,

I use the X-Pro 1 system, with 14mm, 18mm, 27mm, 35mm, and 60mm lenses. I've used an X100 since they were first released. I sold my X100 on Monday and bought a new X100s yesterday.

allstarimaging wrote:
1) Do you look at the Sony NEX move to a full frame sensor... ?


No. I also use Canon full frame cameras,1DX and 6D. I'm OK with keeping APS-C sensors in the X cameras.

allstarimaging wrote:
1) ... wonder if the gear you are buying will have any value in a few years?


The lenses will probably retain about 75% of their original value, assuming the Fujifilm X camera lineup is still viable. The camera bodies will not retain nearly as much value. The X100s costs about $1300 now, before sales tax. In two or three years, it will probably be worth $600, or less, just like the X100 is now.

allstarimaging wrote:
2) I'm not a engineer so the question I have is: Is it possible that the Fuji lenses would work on a full frame Fuji sensor if they ever roll one out?


Probably not. I just did a quick test and it looks like the XF 35/1.4 R has an image circle diameter of about 28 mm. That works fine with an APS-C sensor; the X-Pro 1 and X100/X100s sensors are 23.6 mm x 15.6 mm, but it's not nearly enough to cover a 36 mm x 24 mm "full frame" sensor. Of course, future XF lenses might have larger image circles, but I doubt it.

allstarimaging wrote:
3) I'm considering selling my X100 and XE-1 and lenses and just moving to the X100s as my only and everyday camera to really simplify my shooting and gear. Bad move ...?


Will you be OK with only one focal length? The XF 14/2.8 and 35/1.4 are fantastic lenses.

allstarimaging wrote:
3) ... or have you found the X100s to be that good?


I haven't decided yet. I switched from the X100 to the X100s primarily for better AF in low light, plus I can develop a common work flow for the X100s and X-Pro 1, possibly using Photo Ninja for RAW conversion (currently I use ACR). OTOH, I wouldn't give up my X-Pro 1.



Oct 09, 2013 at 08:32 AM
carstenw
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Fuji X System ?'s


carstenw wrote:
1) I suspect that the Sony FF system will not gain much traction in the general market. A few people around here will be ecstatic, of course. Sony has not proven to be behind their systems as systems, and even the A-mount is not fully fleshed out yet, after how long? The NEX system has no serious tele or flash options, and a spotty lens lineup, and so on. I would not worry excessively. It is of course possible that they will do something fantastic, but I consider the likelihood low.


I didn't say this explicitly, but if you turned the question around, yes, I would be very worried that my investment in a potential Sony NEX FF camera would not be a good one (resale value). Sony has shown little proper commitment to any of their systems, and hasn't really fully fleshed out any of them. With Sony I am always wondering if they are here today, gone tomorrow. Less so with other brands, especially Olympus, Fuji and Nikon, who have a lot invested in their camera systems.



Oct 09, 2013 at 09:49 AM
itai195
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Fuji X System ?'s


allstarimaging wrote:
1) Do you look at the Sony NEX move to a full frame sensor and wonder if the gear you are buying will have any value in a few years?


I'm not generally concerned about resale value – I buy camera gear to use it. That said, I don't think the NEX FF line is going to take over the mirrorless market. It's going to be fairly limited and expensive, at least for a few years. It's easy to get caught up in the FF hype on this forum, but most people don't care and APS-C is just fine.


3) I'm considering selling my X100 and XE-1 and lenses and just moving to the X100s as my only and everyday camera to really simplify my shooting and gear. Bad move or have you found the X100s to be that good?


How much do you like 35mm equivalent? The X100s is a nice camera, but personally I've given up on single focal length cameras. They're just too limiting IMO.



Oct 09, 2013 at 11:37 AM
allstarimaging
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Fuji X System ?'s


Thanks for the responses...I went to the Fuji system after owning and shooting with pretty much every Nikon lens and body that's been out there in the last 10 years. From the D2xs to the D3s and the 14-24 to the 600mm. I really got tied of lugging around all the gear and in addition I had so much gear I felt like I had to shoot everything from landscapes to portraits to pro sports. I'm not making any money at it anymore and just shoot for pleasure.

I wanted a system that was small and light and when I go out to shoot I take one camera and one lens and make myself work with what I have. When I was in NYC I would go out with either my X100 or the XE-1 + 14 2.8. So in an effort to simplify things even more I'm considering just the move to the X100 only. Just shoot what I can and enjoy it and look for great light, color, and compositions.



Oct 09, 2013 at 06:01 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Fuji X System ?'s


Why don't you just go out with the X100 for a while, and see how you like it? If it appeals, get the X100s.


Oct 09, 2013 at 06:22 PM
allstarimaging
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Fuji X System ?'s


Why don't you just go out with the X100 for a while, and see how you like it? If it appeals, get the X100s. Quote · Like

I actually think that is the way I'm headed. I sold everything I had from Nikon because I had to much stuff and I was tired of lugging it around. Now I'm in the Fuji system and I find myself with two bodies and a couple of lenses and looking at the Fuji 23 1.4 and the expected 56 1.2. So more gear just smaller.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with the X100. Shoot what I can with it, work on my post processing skills and just try to be a better photographer.



Oct 09, 2013 at 07:03 PM
Chrissearle
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Fuji X System ?'s


When I have all my kit with me, I only use the X100 occasionally but when I go away and only take my X100 I'm constantly delighted with the results I obtain from it, it always exceeds my expectations. A great little camera.


Oct 09, 2013 at 09:39 PM
Spyro P.
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Fuji X System ?'s


allstarimaging wrote:
Hello,
I have an X100 and the XE-1 + 35 1.4 & 14 2.8.. For those that are shooting Fuji gear I have a couple of questions or looking for thoughts and opinions...

1) Do you look at the Sony NEX move to a full frame sensor and wonder if the gear you are buying will have any value in a few years?

2) I'm not a engineer so the question I have is: Is it possible that the Fuji lenses would work on a full frame Fuji sensor if they ever roll one out?

3) I'm considering selling my X100 and
...Show more

1. No, not really. fujiX is still different in three ways, it has OVFs and a retro-practical UI with marked dials etc that goes against SONY's DNA, a lens lineup with some specific attractions at specific price and sizes that are hard to match (or it will take forever to do so), and a color/tonal aesthetic with a dedicated following. And it will always be a cheaper system than any FF one. Lastly, Fuji was smart enough to build an attractive lens lineup and multiple cameras quickly, now a lot of people are already heavily invested which makes them less likely to churn. Some people will gladly ditch all that for full frame but I bet the vast majority will stay.

So in terms of value in a few years I think the lenses will hold value, as they do, and current cameras will be landfill. Same as most other digital systems.

2 No

3 "Good" means soooo many different things to different people, for me just the fact that it has a mirrorless OVF without costing as much as a car makes it irreplaceable. Others will gladly ditch it because they can see artifacted bushes in a 100% crop, or AF is not as good as another candidate camera. All legit reasons AFAIC. What does "good" mean to you?



Oct 09, 2013 at 09:40 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Fuji X System ?'s


You can find out today, if you live near a decent camera store. Take an SD card, ask the counter guy for 5 minutes with an RX1, shoot anything in any light, any stop, go home and compare, and see if you think it's hype.

The FF NEX will be similar, and will be the harbinger of a new style of camera. The small camera part of the industry took a long time to work around to what many consider the ideal format (135 or 36mm x 24mm) for which a huge percentage of the best lenses made in the past 50 years belong, many of them tiny, but that day has arrived. For those that recall, Nikon ran hard on the 'APS-C is all you need' line for years early in digihistory, then changed tack to FF.

Also, some people don't realise the DoF effects of lens speed differ with format, unless you just like attractive wide aperture numbers for their own sake. Crop lenses don't cover *anywhere near* FF, another indicator of the ~225% increase in image sensor real estate.

You cannot buy much of a car for $1600-1700, est'd A7 price. XPro1 and kit zoom is $2000 at BH. How much are cheapy C/N FF mirror flappers? Everything loses value. Sony makes the finest FF sensors (their DNA) and images play very well with post software. So that is the other side of things, just for balance. They all work great these days, and good luck.



Oct 09, 2013 at 10:50 PM
Spyro P.
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Fuji X System ?'s


the car reference was about leica, the only other camera system with an OVF and without a mirror


Oct 09, 2013 at 11:32 PM
justruss
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Fuji X System ?'s


1. No. That's not why I buy cameras.

2. No. They will not.

3. I'm keeping my X-E1 and lenses... so I obviously don't think getting an X100s as a replacement will do it.

4. I think the Sony will lose a lot of value pretty quickly, actually, in the first 2-3 years. It's higher prices, so more room to fall. It's the front edge of a big FF movement, so it's going to see lots of competition. The lens lineup is going to take forever to flesh out (if you want AF).



Oct 10, 2013 at 06:18 AM





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