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First try shooting on manual with flash
  
 
timbop
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p.2 #1 · First try shooting on manual with flash


jeremy_clay wrote:
But why a card in this situation for the OP? The ceiling is perfect for free-bouncing off of (and it looks white, or at least light..?). Cards give that overly 'flashed' look IMO.



to give fill light in the eyes; if the angle from the bounce is too sharp, you end up with shadows under eyes and nose



Oct 09, 2013 at 10:06 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #2 · First try shooting on manual with flash



I'd say that risk would yield better results then the OPs final product. With a 4 ft overhead you can still bounce with great results or worst case, a wall.







timbop wrote:
to give fill light in the eyes; if the angle from the bounce is too sharp, you end up with shadows under eyes and nose



Oct 09, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Psychic1
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p.2 #3 · First try shooting on manual with flash


I agree with WestFalcon and shoot the same way.

I took a Canon Lighting workshop with Chicago's Bob Davis and he recommended the 45 degree / white card style.

He also used manual as a fallback setting if things start getting tricky.

Day or night, indoors or out, I always use fill flash when shooting people.

I will adjust the flash exposure -3/4 to -1.5.




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Oct 09, 2013 at 10:23 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #4 · First try shooting on manual with flash




Psychic1 wrote:
Day or night, indoors or out, I always use fill flash when shooting people.



...ok. If a workshop guy says so, well then...

OP, take the advice and examples you find and decide what is best for you - most of all, try various methods to see what works for you - techniques from 20-30 years back aren't necessarily carved into a textbook of right or wrong lighting.



Oct 09, 2013 at 11:53 PM
Psychic1
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p.2 #5 · First try shooting on manual with flash


jeremy_clay wrote:
...ok. If a workshop guy says so, well then...


My photos say so and I am always willing to learn.

Bob Davis: http://bobanddawndavis.com

Jeremy Clay: http://jclayphoto.com

Actually, my accomplishments blow you both out of the water.




Oct 09, 2013 at 11:59 PM
Evan Baines
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p.2 #6 · First try shooting on manual with flash


Subscribed.


Oct 10, 2013 at 12:20 AM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #7 · First try shooting on manual with flash




Evan Baines wrote:
Subscribed.


I don't even know if he's trolling or serious.



Oct 10, 2013 at 12:28 AM
 

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Evan Baines
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p.2 #8 · First try shooting on manual with flash


1. If you are photographing people, understand the difference between key and fill light. The light source that is providing the dominant pattern on the subject is the key light, and the depth of the shadows is controlled by the fill light. Thus, if the ambient lighting (for example: sun outdoors or overheads indoors) is creating raccoon eyes, you can either use flash as fill, in which case the raccoon eyes are still there but are lighter, or as key, in which case the raccoon eyes are gone completely as they have been overpowered by the strobe. The latter case is sometimes inappropriately called "fill" flash, when the strobe is actually the key.

2. If you are photographing indoors in a dark room, the strobe is typically providing the key light, as in most examples posted in this thread. I seldom see true fill-flash used indoors, although its possible of course.

3. When bouncing the flash, the placement of the bounce surface is analogous to placement of a key light. In most circumstances, a light placed not much more than 45deg above the subject in a 180 arc in front of them makes the best key light. Thus, the corner of a wall and ceiling creates the most classic angle for a key light in terms of height in most normal rooms.

4. Bounce cards, sto-fens, etc.. effectively create two light sources. Depending on the distances and power involved, the card/modifier may become the key, or more ideally (in most situations) they will provide some on-axis fill while allowing the bounce to remain key. This additional fill may not be necessary in all lighting conditions.

5. In general, on-camera fill from direct flash or a bounce card is almost never beautiful. It may be useful, especially if no other options are available. It may enable an editorial statement in some special cases. However, it is almost always second choice to other methods if exquisite lighting is your primary concern.

6. Using a one-size-fits-all approach with bounce and modifiers (IE always placing flash at a given angle with a given modifier) will likewise not produce the most elegant results 99.9% of the time. It may be a functional choice under some circumstances. Understanding the properties of light and the classic techniques of portrait lighting, along with how they may be adapted, will allow you to make decisions based upon your particular goals and limitations in a given circumstance.




Oct 10, 2013 at 12:48 AM
Bartlett Pair
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p.2 #9 · First try shooting on manual with flash


Evan Baines wrote:
5. In general, on-camera fill from direct flash or a bounce card is almost never beautiful. It may be useful, especially if no other options are available. It may enable an editorial statement in some special cases. However, it is almost always second choice to other methods if exquisite lighting is your primary concern.


This.

Any flash that goes straight from on-camera-->subject is going to look horribly flat and have major issues with the inverse square law. I can't believe this is even a discussion.



Oct 10, 2013 at 01:50 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #10 · First try shooting on manual with flash


Bartlett Pair wrote:
This.

Any flash that goes straight from on-camera-->subject is going to look horribly flat and have major issues with the inverse square law. I can't believe this is even a discussion.


It's not; apparently it's the ONLY way to shoot proper on-camera flash.



Oct 10, 2013 at 02:29 PM
Beni
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p.2 #11 · First try shooting on manual with flash


I like the Demb flash cards which you can tilt to adjust the amount being thrown forward. Couple that with bouncing at angles rather than straight up and it's rather versatile. You can choose broad/short or dramatic/soft just by adjusting bounce angles and use the card angles to adjust the fill ratio where your ceiling/wall is the key. What I do hate is the flash at 45 degrees up with bounce card lighting that some are suggesting, creates some very weird shadows on the face IMO.

Edited on Oct 10, 2013 at 08:55 PM · View previous versions



Oct 10, 2013 at 08:52 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #12 · First try shooting on manual with flash


Beni wrote:
I like the Demb flash cards ...


+1



Oct 10, 2013 at 08:55 PM
Beni
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p.2 #13 · First try shooting on manual with flash


Evan Baines wrote:
1. If you are photographing people, understand the difference between key and fill light. The light source that is providing the dominant pattern on the subject is the key light, and the depth of the shadows is controlled by the fill light. Thus, if the ambient lighting (for example: sun outdoors or overheads indoors) is creating raccoon eyes, you can either use flash as fill, in which case the raccoon eyes are still there but are lighter, or as key, in which case the raccoon eyes are gone completely as they have been overpowered by the strobe. The latter
...Show more

Nice to see you here again Evan, hope everything is going well for you. Your lighting advice is of course as impeccable as your lighting itself.



Oct 10, 2013 at 08:59 PM
garyvot
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p.2 #14 · First try shooting on manual with flash


jeremy_clay wrote:
But why a card in this situation for the OP? The ceiling is perfect for free-bouncing off of (and it looks white, or at least light..?). Cards give that overly 'flashed' look IMO.


I'll go out on a limb and say that maybe you are confusing the use of a small "catch light panel" with the type of light modifier that provide mostly key light?

I agree with you that bouncing is best, Sto-fens are garbage, and you want to avoid over-flashing. But I have found there are times when working close in with a wide lens when the bounced light is essentially directly overhead. In these cases, particularly if there is no option to use ambient fill, I think a catch-light panel can be a good solution. If done right, it only contributes a small fraction of the total light on the subject so the subject does not look over-flashed, but it can help enliven the eyes and soften the shadows.

I typically use the small built-in panels on the big flashes like the 580, but do carry a small card that I can pop onto a smaller flash in a pinch.



Oct 10, 2013 at 10:14 PM
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