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580EX or 430EX II for wedding?
  
 
campy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


My daughter is getting married on Saturday and even though I have a photographer I will probably take some candid shots of the dancing after the photographer leaves. I have the 580EX and 430EX II and would like to know if the newer but less powerful flash be better and more accurate. I will probably bring both in case one dies. Also how do you feel about me using a 35mm f2 non IS over the 24-105. I would like to keep the weight down by using the 35 and the 430 II. My camera is a 5D MK II.


Oct 02, 2013 at 09:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


Sounds like a good plan - using the 35/2 and 430EX II, that is. The 35/2 should give better AF in low light than the 24-105L IS. As you mentioned, it makes good sense to take the 580EX along; take the 24-105L IS, too.

I haven't used the 430EX II myself, but I have used most of the other EX flash made by Canon; bigger and smaller.

On second thought, you might get better results with the 24-105L IS when using AF-assist from the flash. The 24-105/4L IS does have better AF than the 35/2 (faster and more accurate in good light, or when driven by AF-assist).

Either way, it'll be fine. Congratulations and enjoy!

P.S. Go Pats!



Oct 02, 2013 at 09:40 PM
boingyman
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


For dance shots I would just use the 24-105 with AF assist beam. I rather have the option of going wider than 35mm. If ambient light is low enough, which most of the time it is, just drag the shutter and have fun.


Oct 03, 2013 at 01:48 AM
timbop
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


580 for sure. You can add a cp-e3/e4 to get much faster recycling.


Oct 03, 2013 at 02:00 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


boingyman wrote:
For dance shots I would just use the 24-105 with AF assist beam. I rather have the option of going wider than 35mm. If ambient light is low enough, which most of the time it is, just drag the shutter and have fun.


Agreed, take the 24-105. You'll want the framing flexibility since with people dancing around you can't always position yourself ideally. Also most dancing photos have two or more people in the frame and so you'll be stopping down anyway to get adequate DOF between them. And with the IS you can do some shutter dragging/rear curtain stuff for some interesting effects.



Oct 03, 2013 at 02:40 AM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


I owned the EF 35 2.0 for almost 20 years. As far as AF reliability in low light, the 24-105L whips it black 'n blue. As I recall, the 430EX II AF assist pattern is more compatible with the 5D2 AF array.


Oct 03, 2013 at 04:05 AM
campy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


I never seem to have any luck with the pictures I have taken at weddings, they are underexposed and noisy. What settings should I use to get the exposure right. I am thinking f5.6 or f8 at iso 200 and 1/60th. What should I set my flash sync in av mode to. Auto, or 1/200-1/60 auto. When I've used auto in the past the camera selects 1/30th many times and I get motion blur.


Oct 03, 2013 at 07:50 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


campy wrote:
I never seem to have any luck with the pictures I have taken at weddings, they are underexposed and noisy. What settings should I use to get the exposure right. I am thinking f5.6 or f8 at iso 200 and 1/60th. What should I set my flash sync in av mode to. Auto, or 1/200-1/60 auto. When I've used auto in the past the camera selects 1/30th many times and I get motion blur.


Since it'll be dark and you're using flash the shutter speed wont matter for stopping motion of your dance subjects. For the ambient exposure I would pick somewhere around 1/30 since that should be fast enough to keep the background areas sharp (with the 24-120's IS), in case you want to turn up the shadows in post to balance the flash exposure. ISO 400 is a good ISO to leave the camera at for these conditions.



Oct 03, 2013 at 08:08 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


Take the 5D2, 24-105 IS, and 430EXII (but 580EX has faster recycling).

If possible do some on-location pre-testing for exposure.

My usual indoor settings are gauged around balancing ambient light whenever possible (tungsten filter over flash). At least try for some background fill/details from the existing lighting.

My usual settings are ISO 800-1600, 1/50 (between 1/25 to 1/90) @ f/5.6. Hold steady and the IS will help you out! Flash will freeze the subject, just be careful not to swing the camera around or be shaky -- blurred and streaked backgrounds result.



Oct 03, 2013 at 03:00 PM
 

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garyvot
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


The 430EX II is actually quite a capable flash and I use mine frequently for similar situations.

One thing that generally isn't appreciated about Canon flash is that the metering is done entirely in the camera. So unless there is something physically wrong with the gear, either flash should produce identical exposures on the same camera body under the same conditions. Of course, do a test if you are not sure.

In similar situations, I always try to balance the flash with the ambient light so that the background is not a black inkwell, usually something like a 1:4 ratio, so my settings are usually similar to Gunzorro's. Shoot on M mode unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. I would add the following thoughts:

1. If you will be dragging the shutter at all be sure to enable 2nd-curtain sync on the camera (I just do this religiously for all indoor flash). If there is streaking in the background it will look natural this way and minimize ghosting.

2. I recommend not trying to color balance the flash fully with incandescent lighting, as I've never liked the look of a full CTO correction on the flash. Instead, I use a 1/4 CTO gel at most and set a Kelvin WB of around 4500-4800 which gives a nice effect--the subject is lit correctly by the flash but the background lighting remains warm and inviting. (This is all a matter of taste, so try it yourself to see what you prefer.)

3. Black tuxes and white bridal gowns can wreak havoc with automatic flash metering, so check your histograms. Remember that direct flash can use distance information from the lens to help with exposure; if you pull the flash off-camera or tilt the head for use with a light modifier, this is no longer possible, so even more exposure variability can be expected. Shooting RAW or RAW + JPEG is a good idea.



Oct 03, 2013 at 04:20 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


Good points Gary! I should have mentioned the same -- manual mode only. Av mode will cause you blurring in low light.

Yes, I just keep my custom functions set for 2nd curtain all the time.

My gel's do low down to about 3400K or 3200K, but I've had good results matching with Canon's tungsten settings for WB.



Oct 03, 2013 at 07:26 PM
campy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


If I shoot in manual mode what do I set the camera and flash to? 1/30th @ f5.6? What is the flash set at? I have only shot venues like this on AV and flash on auto.


Oct 03, 2013 at 08:50 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


campy wrote:
If I shoot in manual mode what do I set the camera and flash to? 1/30th @ f5.6? What is the flash set at? I have only shot venues like this on AV and flash on auto.


The flash will be set ETTL and the camera will meter the flash power for you. You'll likely need to adjust the flash exposure compensation for some shots.



Oct 03, 2013 at 09:34 PM
campy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


I have the rehearsal dinner tonight so I will shoot on M and play with some settings. I will start at 1/60th @ f5.6 or f8 and see how they look, but they always look better on the lcd.


Oct 04, 2013 at 06:53 PM
jamesmorophoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


is this dude for real? sounds like all of you guys are being trolled... seriously, these questions are so classic (and explained to death), it's hilarious...

"omg, what settings should I use to take good pictures that aren't dark and blurry?"

seeeerrriroussssly?

cereal??..>?..



Oct 08, 2013 at 05:31 AM
Psychic1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


jamesmorophoto wrote:
is this dude for real? sounds like all of you guys are being trolled... seriously, these questions are so classic (and explained to death), it's hilarious...

"omg, what settings should I use to take good pictures that aren't dark and blurry?"

seeeerrriroussssly?

cereal??..>?..


James

I learned "Political Correctness" on FM and not everyone knows how to handle a flash in wedding situations.

Actually, I can not recall this subject being mentioned on the Canon board in a few years.

Play nice with the other kids ...

Campy - enjoy the wedding.



Oct 08, 2013 at 09:17 AM
campy
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


jamesmorophoto wrote:
is this dude for real? sounds like all of you guys are being trolled... seriously, these questions are so classic (and explained to death), it's hilarious...

"omg, what settings should I use to take good pictures that aren't dark and blurry?"

seeeerrriroussssly?

cereal??..>?..


I just looked at your website and I have another question. How do I make sure so many heads are cut off? If my daughters come back that way I will not be happy. I know you probably want to look different from every other photographer and express yourself, but art is seen differently by different people. I think it was in New York at an art exhibit where they had a cross in a jar of urine and called it art.



Oct 08, 2013 at 10:22 AM
timbop
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 580EX or 430EX II for wedding?


jamesmorophoto wrote:
is this dude for real? sounds like all of you guys are being trolled... seriously, these questions are so classic (and explained to death), it's hilarious...

"omg, what settings should I use to take good pictures that aren't dark and blurry?"

seeeerrriroussssly?

cereal??..>?..


I think it would be awesome if you learned to deal with your inferiority complex in a more constructive way.

seeeerrriroussssly

Also, here's the followup thread in which he shows pictures from the wedding last saturday: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1245769



Oct 08, 2013 at 05:17 PM





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