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Archive 2013 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog

  
 
AhamB
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


philber wrote:
Lastly, but that is your call and not mine, if a photographer I paid showed up with a NEX, I am not sure I'd be so happy, as it looks anything but pro.


Wouldn't you judge the photographer's abilities by looking at some of his work? I also remember an FM member here that uses/used a cheap Sony SLT to do panorama stitches for high quality architecture photography jobs.



Sep 25, 2013 at 11:30 AM
philber
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Sure you can produce fine pictures with a less-than-pro camera. That doesn't mean that customers don't expect pros to show up with pro gear.


Sep 25, 2013 at 12:52 PM
bobbytan
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


You do mean the 5D II and not the 5D III, right? I have use the 5D II for about 4-5 years. The OM-D will also leave the 5D II dead in DR, colors and contrast. Basically you are looking at or comparing new sensor technology to old sensor technology. The gap between m43, APS-C and FF has narrowed considerably. Unless you are making very large prints it's hard to tell them apart, especially if you are using good/prime lenses. IMO the E-M1 is designed to be a pro system while the NEX and Fuji is meant to be an enthusiast's camera.

philber wrote:
IQ of the NEX 7 leaves that of the 5D III for dead in DR, colors and contrast.




Sep 25, 2013 at 01:18 PM
wfrank
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


I personally love the color rendition combo of 5D2 and Zeiss. But the NEX is not bad at all (in my case NEX 5N). With smaller systems I miss fast lenses and the possibilities those give with a larger sensor.

For architecture, long DOF landscaping and such the smaller systems matches and low ISO DR-wise at least the NEXes are better than FF Canons. Ok that something like Zeiss 21/2.8 (or the TS's) are not available, but surely other sufficient alternatives are.



Sep 25, 2013 at 02:05 PM
h00ligan
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


The only alternative I see that could work with nex is the 10-22. Or maybe the touit 12.

The wireless trigger isn't that much of an issue because I can fire with a timer. However flash control is.

I think for many clients just seeing interchangeable lenses is 'pro enough'. Plus the people with whom I work do judge results. As designers they focus on the end results. As many of them use non traditional things in their art. Example. They will accent with ikea pieces even on multimillion dollar homes, not what you'd expect.

I got back from the dr. So the issue is scoliosis. They don't know if it's a result of severe muscle spasm or systemic. But they anticipate a minimum of 6-9 months to remedy the effects of severe muscle cramps and disc misalignment.

A) this is a bummer
B) it reiterates I'm not supposed to carry heavy things or bend a lot

So now this may have to be, rather than want to be. I love photography and feel I improve every outing. I don't want to give up now. I just need to find some work arounds.

I don't expect these limitations to be life long, but I also don't need to say no to the few client offers I get. I have a shoot lined up for early October for a million dollar home. I definitely need to at least rent a UWA for it or have transitioned some gear. I'm hesitant to buy the tokina while I research the other options.

Current options
5d2 + tokina UWA zoom and 135L
Nex 6/7 with 10-22 or touit, 45 contax g for short portraits, no idea for canine
Omd and panny 7-14, 45 contax g for short portraits, something for longer?

Supplemented with rx1 as my 35mm equiv...I have a 430 ex ii and 580 ii for my current flashes. Will get the ste2 or yungnao version if I keep the 5d

I sold my 5n for a couple of reasons. In hindsight maybe shouldn't have.
I really appreciate the input here, thanks so much.



Sep 25, 2013 at 04:33 PM
h00ligan
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Also wfrank - that's something I missed too on the 5n and previously the gf1. But the speed booster is out now.....


Sep 25, 2013 at 06:07 PM
mawz
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


bobbytan wrote:
You do mean the 5D II and not the 5D III, right? I have use the 5D II for about 4-5 years. The OM-D will also leave the 5D II dead in DR, colors and contrast. Basically you are looking at or comparing new sensor technology to old sensor technology. The gap between m43, APS-C and FF has narrowed considerably. Unless you are making very large prints it's hard to tell them apart, especially if you are using good/prime lenses. IMO the E-M1 is designed to be a pro system while the NEX and Fuji is meant to be an
...Show more

The 5DIII only has a bit more DR than the 5D2, colour and contrast are better, but still not up to what EXMOR delivers. I'd hesitate to say the NEX-7 beats the 5DIII soundly in any aspect other than DR though, the other two categories are a lot closer, I don't think the NEX has more than a minor advantage there.



Sep 25, 2013 at 10:33 PM
dakel
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog



Bobby is a bit of a Olympus fan boy. Looking at DxOMark, the 5D2 betters the OM-5 in colour depth, is 0.4 EV worse in DR, and much better at high ISO.



Another bold claim. According to DxOMark, he's right although leaving something for dead is subjective. Also, I'm not saying DxOMark is the be all and end all of sensor ratings it's just another source after all.

Personally, I think you'll do fine with the 5D2, TSE 17/4 and RX1.
BR
Derrick



Sep 26, 2013 at 12:01 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Will the 24/35 sold finance a 17tse?

It hought the the were REALLY expensive.



Sep 26, 2013 at 12:37 AM
xbarcelo
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Have you thought of the Fuji X-A1? That way you could use the 14 and also have a bayer sensor and not having to change your workflow (I'd say the reaction against x-trans is well overblown, but that's me and I don't want to start another debate).


Sep 26, 2013 at 06:51 AM
mawz
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


xbarcelo wrote:
Have you thought of the Fuji X-A1? That way you could use the 14 and also have a bayer sensor and not having to change your workflow (I'd say the reaction against x-trans is well overblown, but that's me and I don't want to start another debate).


Frankly if it wasn't for the flash requirement, the Fuji X cameras might just be exactly what he is looking for, particularly the X-A1. However they have a very limited flash system compared to what the OP is looking for, particularly a complete lack of wireless TTL capability.



Sep 26, 2013 at 07:34 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Yes, unfortunately true.

I love Fuji cameras, fwiw. And the nex series. In looking at the canon upgrades, I don't see they net me anything. I don't need the better af, high ISO is fine. I don't feel the 5d2 is incredibly outshines by the upgrades.

Also in difference to e skill here. I also recognize I have plenty of room to learn. I'm not suggesting a gear change will benefit anything other than my back and workflow speed, lest anyone find the conversation frustrating!



Sep 26, 2013 at 08:15 AM
alwang
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


If you can still find a Sony a37, that would be another option. Bigger than mirrorless, but still way smaller and lighter than your 5D2. Tilt screen, full flash capabilities, and a great sensor.

If you didn't care about the tilt screen, the Canon SL1 might be an option too.



Sep 26, 2013 at 08:28 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


I'm looking atround at all the options and honestly there doesn't seem to be much of a choice The 5d2 and similar lenses produce tangibly better results than mft it seems. And the cost of the em1 is quite high, ls it would be a wash. I think I just need to be smart about what I take with me, and maybe get a wheelie bag

The nex and fuji images are much close in terms of iq, but he flash options are limited. I'm just not seeing a real path here.

The x-a1 and 14mm would appear to be an interesting option.

I have a feeling the 5d2 kit will just needs to be UWA zoom, 135 and then from here on any monies I out need to be a move toward smaller.

Maybe the eos - m will surprise us with the second generation.

I thought fuji did have flash support... Em1 and 12-40 is looking to be about $2500? If so olympus is really banking on people wanting smaller size (6d and kit lens is about that price no?). Though the lack of aa filter as mentioned was new to me, and could be interesting.

The olympus certainly seems to have a ton if whiz bang features
The nex seems to have the lest iq loss, but missing certain features
The gx7 looks very confused about itself

I know there was some confusion about the rx1 and wireless command. As it turns out you can fire externals you just have to mount the flash to 'pair' it. I wonder if the nex 6 has this. The nex 7 is lacking the mufti interface shoe right?

Big thanks again for everyone's help.



Sep 26, 2013 at 09:08 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


hooligan -- Sorry about your back condition. That really throws a wrench in the gears! Perhaps a wheeled bag would help. My concern is jostling and bumping of equipment -- I tend to be very protective of mine, preferring car seats to trunks or foot wells.

With your interest in reduced weight and the fact we are on the Alt board, I can understand the inclination toward APS-C and smaller formats. My approach is 1) lenses appropriate to subject, 2) highest quality resolution -- both within reasonable costs. For me that means TSE and L lenses, and FF to get the widest AOV and IQ. I've never seen APS-C to have the same flexibility, especially at the wide angle range needed for architecture. PP can help with non-TSE, but that is extra work, and somewhat limited compared to "shooting it right" the first time.

The way you keep referring to your 24 TSE, it sounds like it is the original version. That is fine -- I had mine from around the mid-90s up to about 3 years ago.

But I think even if you get a 17 TSE, you still need a 24 TSE -- the gap is too wide between them.

I think I said, but my minimal kit for photography buildings like hotels is a 24 TSE with 16-35L II. I seldom use much longer than a normal lens, certainly very little telephoto. Considering I must use some lighting on interiors, I travel as light as possible, especially if it involves airlines. These days, I might be inclined to take the 17 TSE, 24 TSE and 24-105L.

If you are asking if you can finance a 17 TSE by selling an original 24 TSE plus a 35/1.4L, I'd say no, not quite, unless you are extremely patient and diligent in your search. If they are in excellent condition, I expect you would get $750 for the TSE and around $950 for the 35L. That's nearly enough, but I would miss that 24 TSE, as I said.

Good luck deciding!



Sep 26, 2013 at 09:19 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Thanks for the input. I don't have a tse right now.

The 24Lii and 35Lii arr the two wides I have. 35 being a wide normal. I sold an older 35L for closer to 1100, this one is very new. So I may be able to get a bit more than thought.


I was in love with the 35L, until I got the rx1. Which for dynamic range, iso noise and all around shooting is superior imo. It's also a lot more discreet. Patter shooting a m9 and 35 cron and lux, I believe the rx1 is a match.

I'm not sure what a one year old 35L and 24Lii would fetch on the used market. The rx1 is on the buy sell boards but I've been jammed with tech work. I have to get back to a lot of people with offer trades for nex and mft systems today.

While tech is a money maker for me I am now at a point where my clients think my work is good enough to pay for (I charge commensurate to my experience, I'm not unrealistic). It's a conversion for people who have been tryijg to scrape by with no photographic know how using point and shoot cameras. I think if I were going the tse route the 17 would be the first stop.

I need to check some pricing and pick up a ste-2 as I've been shooting with a hotshot wire to the 580 and grouping the 430.

I have a lightweight arca Swiss compliant tripod (it's not the best of best, but is stable and has a level- good for indoors). A bracket on the 5d2 would probably help me.

For shots of the Livingroom a vertical mount with l plate and the 24 would have been ok, the bathrooms however require much wider.

I'm ok letting the rx1 go but then need to retain the 24 or 35 L. Depending on which of those is retained I'll have to add a 50/1.4 or 85.

The tokina would seem to be a good match with the 17tse. But I'll be honest. Tse is foreign to me. So there's a learning curve.

The reason I bought the rx1 is candids for more personal shooting. Again at my height with even a 5d2 and any lens. It's an attention draw at an event or even personal party. The nex5 was brilliant at this but I struggled to find fast enough lenses at reasonable prices.

Great advice. Thank you.

Can I see some of your work with the tse lenses?

The ls/ interior type of shooting really just happened to fall my way, and it turns out I enjoy it. I think I'll see if I can acquire some rentals too. Not cheap, but cheaper than buying the wrong stuff. In the mean time also running some raws through my workflow.

I really was set on fuji as a good compromise. Especial with the sales on the x-e1, but raw conversion threw me for a loop.

Again I can't say it enough...the feedback is wonderful and really helping me. Thank you!

Sorry for the iPhone typos

Edited on Sep 26, 2013 at 10:17 AM · View previous versions



Sep 26, 2013 at 09:44 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


The 24 TSE II is a gem! It would help pay most of the cost of the 17 TSE, but don't let it go -- it is one of the best lenses made by any of the camera makers, regardless of the tilt/shift features.

I don't know anything about the durability or longevity of the Tokina 16-28, I'm only going on its price and recommendations of some happy owners on the forum. Personally, I like the Canon and feel more confident having CPS back me up on repairs. But I might someday buy a Tokina just to see what I've been missing.

A note about cameras: I like my 5D2 very much, but I notice that some lenses look better on my 1Ds3. This is in side-by-side shooting of the same lens. Some look better on the 5D2 (like my 24-105L), but the majority look better on the 1Ds3. Must be sensor/processor & algorithms. The point is, the improvements in imaging due to camera bodies shouldn't be discounted completely. Another reason I am paying attention to user experience with 5D3 and 6D.

By all means -- you need to get up to speed on shooting RAW! Seriously, processing RAW files is about 1/2 the battle to making outstanding images. For still subjects like buildings, you can do a lot with panoramas to get much wider shots, especially double row panos: two high, and three or four wide.

You can look on my website and see many shots I've done with TSE lenses. Plus, I've started, or contributed to, several threads in the Canon forum featuring photos from the current TSE lenses. (Yes, it does seem like an obsession!)

Here are couple threads on miscellaneous TSE stuff:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1209878/0?keyword=TS-E#11526704
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1208037/0?keyword=TS-E#11510442
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1213058/0?keyword=TS-E#11555733
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1233207/0?keyword=TSE#11733948



Sep 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Thanks a lot. I'll check them out.

Again I don't have the 24tse. Just the 24l ii

Edited on Sep 26, 2013 at 03:13 PM · View previous versions



Sep 26, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


Oh, sorry! I get it!

Yes, unload that lens right away! Ha-ha!



Sep 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM
millsart
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 5d2 to nex or mft for non event photog


AhamB wrote:
Wouldn't you judge the photographer's abilities by looking at some of his work? I also remember an FM member here that uses/used a cheap Sony SLT to do panorama stitches for high quality architecture photography jobs.



A rational and informed person wouldn't because they know that its not so much the camera but the person using it. They also know that some small camera's like a Merrill or RX1 can deliver amazing IQ and blow the doors off "pro looking" but outdated large DSLR's like a 1D mkII or original D3.

However, clients aren't always rational human beings, some are frankly idiots and they equate all smaller camera's to the level of a $99 P&S from 5 years ago, and equate any big gripped DSLR to "high quality" no matter how dated it maybe. They don't, for example know a 1D from a 1D mkIII from a 1Dx. After all, if they did, they probably wouldn't be hiring a photographer in many cases.


I've done natural light portrait sessions because the conditions were right for an ideal shot and actually had hovering mothers ask me why I'm not setting up some lights and doing "professional photography" and asking what they are paying for. No joke, it happens

Client's like feeling they are getting some specialized equipment used for their money in a lot of cases. Not all of them, but it does happen and you can't discount that if your business is dealing with clients, especially non industry clients such as wedding and senior portrait clients.

Is a big expense they aren't used to paying for, they know nothing about the end product or what does/doesn't go into it, and they often have outdated notions of what they have seen a "pro" use on tv or ages ago at another wedding.



Sep 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM
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