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Archive 2013 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration

  
 
tiggy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


I have a 100-400 L lens, and I'm not really coming up to speed quickly on how to operate it without getting frustrated. It is, of course, a push-pull lens, which means that, in theory, you can zoom in and operate manual focus at the same time.

I find, instead, that the focus ring is too close to the lens lock ring (which allows you to twist it like a focus ring in order to give more resistance to the pushing and pulling, or lock it in place). This means that sometimes I'll lock the lens in place mistakenly while focusing. Or unlock it while doing same.

I have an instinct that I'm just not holding and handling it correctly, and I was wondering if there was anyone out there who might point to instructions somewhere on how to make these things useful, other than as assets to trade for another lens.

Thanks, -tig




Sep 20, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Welcome to the forum!

I'd say it's just a matter of familiarity. The more you work with it, the more instinctive it will become.

My second lens, back in '79, was the FD 100-200/5.6. It was a push/pull, and not knowing any difference, I just used it. So I guess I had a head start when I finally bought a 28-300L and 100-400L.

Using AF makes the world a much simpler place! I wouldn't like to manually focus hand held. On a tripod, that would be great, and maybe the best way to go for some static subjects -- LV + manual focus.

Just keep at it!




Sep 20, 2013 at 11:15 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Always thought the push pull suited the 100-400 very well .

Twist zoom is fine if the amount of rotation is small but some long zooms (sigm 50-500 etc) you find you have to twist too much .




Sep 20, 2013 at 11:44 AM
brimull
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


As someone else wrote, this is all a matter of getting used to. Over time, it became somewhat natural to me. I'm torn as to whether the design is desirable, but the initial awkwardness can be overcome.

Brian M.



Sep 20, 2013 at 11:53 AM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


My first few zooms (Nikkors) were all push-pull with integrated MF and I thought they were a better design than separate rings for each function. But that was 35 years ago with a micro prism screen. I couldn't imagine manually focusing one of those beasts now...


Sep 20, 2013 at 12:07 PM
surftim
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


I have that 100-400L as well, it will just take getting used to.It reminded me of my old (pre-digital) days where my lenses were push/pull.

Over time you will master it and it will become second nature to you.



Sep 20, 2013 at 12:14 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Not sure why you have to zoom and manual focus at the same time. I have a hard enough time zooming and AF'ing at the same time and I have owned the 100-400 for ten years.


Sep 20, 2013 at 02:36 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


tiggy wrote:
I have a 100-400 L lens, and I'm not really coming up to speed quickly on how to operate it without getting frustrated. It is, of course, a push-pull lens, which means that, in theory, you can zoom in and operate manual focus at the same time.

I find, instead, that the focus ring is too close to the lens lock ring (which allows you to twist it like a focus ring in order to give more resistance to the pushing and pulling, or lock it in place). This means that sometimes I'll lock the lens in place mistakenly while focusing.
...Show more

Before I got a 100-400 and shot with it I worried about the push-pull mechanism - though I have to admit that I never was worried about the zoom lock.

After using the lens extensively, I don't give the push-pull system a second thought. It is completely automatic and natural for me to use it. It even has a certain kind of logic in that as the lens extends and its center of balance shifts forward, your supporting hand shifts forward with it. While you could be one of those very small number of people who simply can't come to terms with a lens that doesn't rotate to zoom - and there aren't too many in that category - I'll bet that after you spend time developing instincts for the lens you will find it as natural to operate as many of the rest of us do.

I've never heard for what you seem to describe as a sort of confusion between the zoom lock ring and the manual focus ring. It certainly hasn't been the slightest issue for me - they don't even feel the same given the knurled covering on the focus ring. (And if these two rings confuse you... just image your potential confusion if you had three rotating rings with a rotating zoom ring!) Again, I urge you to use the lens a lot and see if you don't adapt.

Good luck,

Dan



Sep 20, 2013 at 03:09 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


tiggy wrote:
...I was wondering if there was anyone out there who might point to instructions somewhere on how to make these things useful, other than as assets to trade for another lens.


Sure; here you go:

-----> PRACTICE!




Sep 20, 2013 at 03:20 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Like others have said, you just get used to it.
There really is no secret getting the hang of it.

One tip:
Don't make the zoom lock ring too tight when using the push-pull. Always make it a bit loose when zooming or you will wear out the rubber gasket inside.



Sep 20, 2013 at 09:47 PM
scottam10
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Push/pull zooms seem to be more about zooming speed than precision, I've found they are quick to operate which can be useful when tracking critters but harder to get a precise framing
- of course you can always crop in post

I've also found the quick push-pull zoom action of the 100-400 very useful when acquiring a subject - start out wide at 100mm, find your subject in the viewfinder, then zoom in and shoot

And I always rely on AF, it's quicker and more precise than my attempts at MF.



Sep 20, 2013 at 09:56 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


surf monkey wrote:
Like others have said, you just get used to it.
There really is no secret getting the hang of it.

One tip:
Don't make the zoom lock ring too tight when using the push-pull. Always make it a bit loose when zooming or you will wear out the rubber gasket inside.


It is my understanding that it actually is not a good idea to use the zoom lock as a sort of tension control adjustment - but instead better to rotate it to lock or rotate it to be fully loose.

Dan



Sep 20, 2013 at 10:22 PM
bht-kevin
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


I agree with the practice mantra.

With that said, I can count on my hand the amount of times I've zoomed plus manual focused. Can I ask what situation you are in that requires auto focus and zooming at the same time?



Sep 20, 2013 at 11:07 PM
Chris Anthony
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


I have no problem using the push pull design, rather pulling the lens out of my camera bags, no matter what, the lens hangs up in the bag and pulls the zoom out, even when fully tight. Has anyone found a way around this or should I just leave the lock loose and not put extra drag on the mechanism?


Sep 21, 2013 at 12:11 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Chris Anthony wrote:
I have no problem using the push pull design, rather pulling the lens out of my camera bags, no matter what, the lens hangs up in the bag and pulls the zoom out, even when fully tight. Has anyone found a way around this or should I just leave the lock loose and not put extra drag on the mechanism?


Rather than yanking it up from the top, I reach down and grab it along the sides if you store it vertically, or consider storing it base-down. Avoid packing it overly-tightly between the dividers in the bag, and consider whether you can store it horizontally instead of vertically in your bag. (I do that with my primary large bag and it is the best solution.)

To clarify my previous post about the zoom lock ring. I'm pretty certain that I read somewhere that it is best to use the ring it either of two positions - either snugly (but not overly) tightened to hold the mechanism in the retracted position, or very loose in order to be able to zoom the lens. The source I read (sorry - no longer available to me) suggested that one of the causes of early wear on the mechanism is attempting to fine-tune the amount of zoom tension by partially turning the ring and maintaining drag.

YMMV.

Dan



Sep 21, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Photon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Tig hasn't replied since the original post, but I still want to add one comment:
Just how does one simultaneously zoom and manually focus any hand-held lens with separate rings for the two? It was doable with the manual focus lenses that used a single ring combining twist and push/pull. It would certainly be possible with a 100-400L that is tripod mounted (two hands on the lens), but unless one is using a gimbal mount to track birds in flight, wouldn't working off a tripod imply careful composition (including zoom) followed by careful focusing (possibly manual, possibly using live view)? And if using two hands to zoom and MF, how would you trip the shutter at the precise moment called for?

Just wondering. I like the push/pull zoom of the 100-400. It's fast and intuitive. The AF isn't the quickest compared to newer designs, but it far outdoes what I could accomplish with MF. I use the lens mostly for action, but on occasions that I use it for landscape I don't have any trouble adjusting to a precise focal length for composition. I keep the zoom lock ring fully loose except when on tripod and shooting at a significant tilt. No problems with wear.



Sep 21, 2013 at 01:40 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


I love practical posts. ;-)

How would focusing and zooming at the same time be easier with two rings than with one ring and one push-pull mechanism? And it what situation would one actually be likely to want to attempt to do this?

Yes, try to simultaneously zoom and manually focus with, oh, a 70-200 and report back.

Dan

Photon wrote:
Tig hasn't replied since the original post, but I still want to add one comment:
Just how does one simultaneously zoom and manually focus any hand-held lens with separate rings for the two? It was doable with the manual focus lenses that used a single ring combining twist and push/pull. It would certainly be possible with a 100-400L that is tripod mounted (two hands on the lens), but unless one is using a gimbal mount to track birds in flight, wouldn't working off a tripod imply careful composition (including zoom) followed by careful focusing (possibly manual, possibly using live view)? And
...Show more



Sep 21, 2013 at 02:32 PM
tiggy
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Thanks everyone for the sense of how you all overcame this awkwardness. Not the answer I wanted, as I was hoping there was a magic stance/grip/etc. that would fix this for me.

To answer some questions:
- I am using a gimbal on a tripod for birds in flight (and hyperkinetic three year old daughter in flight too), and I find that I'm often using a 1.4x teleconverter, which throws me to manual focus. I am actually getting so that I can do that trick where you start out at 100mm for framing, and then zoom in to get the magnification, but of course there is a slight focus adjustment needed. If I use the focus ring as the thing my left hand holds onto to operate the "trombone effect," then I can also twist the ring at the same time. I think perhaps I'm just being overly-ambitious in what a person can do, but I'll keep trying to see if I can get better at it. I've been practicing on falling leaves and dragonflies (and a running three-year-old).

- One trip of here is that if the locking ring is at all tightened for tension purposes, the focus movement also moves the locking ring, which is a bound to mess things up. The several posts here indicating that the "tension ring" is really a misnomer and it should be used as a locking mechanism, or completely loose now makes a lot of sense to me seeing that. I believe that might help with the original problem. I was previously setting a medium tension with that ring, which might just be looking for trouble.

- One note: I microfocused the lense yesterday, and it required 8 units of movement (out of a possible 20) to get a proper focus plane at 400mm, and it requires 16 out of 20 units at the 100mm setting. The new 70D allows you to set both. This was part of my problem too, as I was not getting the sharpness I wanted, and I was blaming the manual focus ring and my own amateur skills. Now I realize it was my amateur skills and the a bit of backfocusing too. I should also say that I think it's not a great quality control indicator when the microfocusing of a brand new L-series lens requires 80 percent of the available microfocusing distance as a modification to put the focus plane in its proper place. In this microfocusing process, I was pixel peeping, and I could see that there could be sharpness improvements on this lens when you're looking at 100 percent crops. It's about acceptable, but I do wonder how much sharper a prime lens would be. Not that I could afford one.

Thanks everyone for the guidance. Great forum, and I'm very happy I joined. -tig


-



Sep 21, 2013 at 08:37 PM
scalesusa
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Push pull zooms were very popular in the early days of zoom lenses, and allow you to manually focus while zooming all with one hand. It can be wonderful once you master it.

Lots of people rely on autofocus, but there are situations where tracking moving objects where manual focus and push pull zoom work very well.

The push -pull zooms are a dying breed, so enjoy it while you can



Sep 21, 2013 at 09:28 PM
Photon
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Those darn push-pull zoom lenses: how to operate without frustration


Hey tig, I figured you might be using a TC and losing the AF option. I would worry a bit about using the focus ring to push and pull the barrel for zoom. It may not be designed to take force in that direction...or it might handle it fine, but I try to get my hand solidly on the grip that's designed for zooming.

I have one prime lens that requires a substantial AF MA (on one body it's at 17). This does suggest that it wouldn't work well on a body without that feature, so I'm considering sending it to CPS for adjustment. If you were a CPS member (but your profile says amateur) I'd say send it in. Likewise, if it's under warranty, send it in. They may say it's operating within specs, but if you have described the concern accurately they may adjust it closer to a "neutral" range. Remember that camera bodies differ (sometimes a lot) and many other tolerances in the AF process can balance out to minimize effect, or add up to a large effect. If it's out of warranty...I'd probably just live with it as the MA seems to have the range to deal with it. MA can be a great feature.



Sep 21, 2013 at 10:17 PM
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