Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2013 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex
  
 
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


An upcoming obligation requires me to shoot award photos at an indoor dog show. Images will be of one or two people standing alongside one dog. A seamless BG with a few props will be used. The dogs are a giant breed (leonberger) that would remind you of a really large golden retriever, but with a black face. I'm really anxious about this assignment, because I am an available light, and continuous light source, photographer only. We own a pair of Canon 580ex units and the ST-E2 transmitter and light stands. I have access to additional 580ex units, for added frontal fill or BG illumination. We'd used a 1Dx or 1Ds Mark III, probably with the 70-200, or the 135/2 lenses. We could shoot tethered into LR.

I would be willing to skip the Canon speedlights and instead rent a light kit from Lensrentals (or other source), if that would allow for more predictable results. What I'll guess are adequately powered AlienBee kits are available there.

What modifiers would you apply to the Canon speedlights for improved light quality over naked flash, please? Would you treat the flash unit(s) for BG lighting the same way? How many lights, having your druthers, might you use?

Many thanks. I appreciate any and all counsel you care to offer.

John Caldwell



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:37 PM
BrianO
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


"Predictability" isn't an issue, as using a Speedlite in Manual mode will be just as predictable as using a monolight. What you'll get from a rented monolight, though, is power. Filling a large soft box or parabolic umbrella will eat some light, so the added power may give you some flexibility that you wouldn't have with Speedlites. On the other hand, with the good high-ISO capabilities of the cameras you mentioned, that's not as big an issue as it might have been in the past.

The problem I foresee with using Speedlites is the ST-E2 transmitter. It's an optical trigger, and in a large room there may not be a close-enough bounce surface to allow the signal to reach both Speedlites if they're placed in the best positions relative to the camera. I'd look into borrowing or renting radio triggers (or even buying three of the excellent Yongnuo YN-622C transceivers if you think you might want to start using your Speedlites more often).



Sep 19, 2013 at 07:28 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Thank you, BrianO.

John-



Sep 19, 2013 at 07:30 PM
jefferies1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


I would want a battery pack ( off brand OK) to speed up recycle time. You seldom get the dog and owner looking at you at the same time. Telling the owner to just look and you will get the dogs attention is worthless. They will try to get the dog to look but you have no shot because they are looking at the dog. When you do get a clean shot the last thing you need is a recycling flash to delay the shot. A squeaky toy is a must and works 95% of the time.

Shoot on full manual. After you lock in the exposure you are good to go for the rest of the shoot.



Sep 19, 2013 at 09:39 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Yes, what little work of this kind I've done with flash the recycle time killed many shots. Thanks for the reminder.

Thank you, jeffries1.

John-



Sep 19, 2013 at 09:58 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Any thoughts regarding modifiers for the 580 units?



Sep 20, 2013 at 01:45 PM
BrianO
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


John Caldwell wrote:
Any thoughts regarding modifiers for the 580 units?


Umbrellas are the most portable, least expensive solution that have a significant effect. Soft boxes, either square or octagonal, offer more control of spill but aren't as convenient.

Just getting the Speedlites off camera will make the greatest difference, so -- modified or not -- light stands are essential.

Forget about things like Omni-Bounce caps or Fong Domes; in a typical large venue like an auditorium or arena there won't be close-by bounce surfaces, so they won't be effective.



Sep 20, 2013 at 03:14 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Again, BryanO, thank you.

John-



Sep 20, 2013 at 05:11 PM
MaunaKea7007
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Tethered is an interesting addition. Is the goal tone management or organizing subject data for client contact, ordering, etc.? Would you have an assistant handling the computer? (Way better.) I haven't tethered directly into LR for a while. Had problems with camera drop (electronically!) but that's possibly cable stuff. I use EOS Utility for interiors but you need speed. At a March gathering we shot humans into LR and IIRC that was direct to LR with person staffing laptop full time. Love tethering. Having others watch the screen CAN increase interest and sales. You know best. Might not be appropriate as the dogs may need fewer distractions.

Those battery packs absolutely necessary, and the good batteries and charger to go with them. Perhaps time to get two Einsteins? Sounds like there will be A.C. power. I love mine, wish I had done it way sooner.

Some sidelighting differentiation would help tones in the dog's face if head is all black. Key light off axis.

Good shooting!



Sep 20, 2013 at 05:30 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Thank you for your interest, MaunaKea7007.

Tethering comes about because I so lack confidence in my lighting choices in this setting, I need the chance to make on-set changes based up tethered image feedback. Since I donate all of this work, it has nothing to do with stimulating sales, but certainly it can be nice for the subjects to see images quickly.

By Einstein units, do you refer to these soft boxes for use with our Canon speed lights, or do you mean higher power moonlights?

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Eggcrate-Diffuser-Dedicated-Speedring/dp/B006P2CCSA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1379701473&sr=1-1&keywords=einstein+light

Thanks again,

John Caldwell




Sep 20, 2013 at 06:27 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



BrianO
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


John Caldwell wrote:
...By Einstein units, do you refer to these soft boxes for use with our Canon speed lights, or do you mean higher power moonlights?


Einstein is the latest monolight by Paul C. Buff, Inc.

The link you posted is for a Fotodiox-brand softbox/grid/speedring combo designed to fit the PCB Einstein.



Sep 20, 2013 at 07:52 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


I now see the Einstein 640 watt-second moonlight. That represents a huge step up from the Canon speedlights of course. Thank you.


Sep 20, 2013 at 08:29 PM
TMGraphics
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


TIP - get a little "squeeker" out of a pet toy to get the dogs attention, but do not overuse it. The dog will look in the direction of the noise out of curiousity. You can also use a noisy bag like an empty snack chip bag but only if the room is not that noisy.

Good Luck with the shoot!



Sep 22, 2013 at 01:48 PM
JR Photo
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


I just bet you will know how to light. Try it pre-event if you are really unsure. I see the biggest problem. Recycle time and catching the human with eye contact. Be it dogs, horses or chickens. The owner-trainers job is having the animal in position. never fails after the shot said or not why didn't you have me looking good have lots of devises at hand. Toys. clicker wrappers, bags. Don't hesitate to say mam, sir J. R.


Sep 22, 2013 at 02:42 PM
MaunaKea7007
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


JR's advice very good: if they ask you to take their picture you can ask that they pay attention to your direction.

Einsteins would represent a purchase which isn't supported by the work, so perhaps the best option is the bigger external battery packs that take 8 AAs and offer rapid recycle to be ready immediately for another image. But if you do other paying work in photography this job could be the practice session for more work now made easier with the 2 einsteins I'd recommend if more future work is coming along. I *love* my Einsteins and wonder why I tried to use the speedlights for so long. (I had some aging Norman power packs, too.)

The cost of two battery packs, 16 rechargeable batteries and a slave (you prob already have the slave) isat least a bit of the way toward getting an Einstein. One head is a possible solution with a big softbox. Big=perhaps 3x4 feet for this. I liked 4x6 feet for this even better, if you have all that light from a strobe like the Paul Buff Einstein.

Look here:
www.paulcbuff.com and click Einstein tab or menu block. Then either two of their umbrellas or two less-expesive offerings somewhere else. (Buff modifiers cost reasonable $$) White umbrellas with removable black backing offer shoot-THROUGH or shoot-as-reflector option to you.

Like JR I wish you fun and a smooth shoot.

jonathan7007



Sep 23, 2013 at 07:24 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Thank you all for this thoughtful advice. We do enough available light work with digs to understand the important of the attention tricks you've mentioned. Those things can break, or make, the shot to be sure. You all have listed some good ones.

For now I've decided to stick with the Canon speedlights, and will probably use 4 or 5 units. But if this work is going to become habit, higher power monolights might need to enter our picture.

Many thanks again to all. Good advice here!

Best wishes,

John Caldwell



Sep 23, 2013 at 11:36 PM
MNPNW
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


When you consider more than speedlight power, consider the Cheetah CL-180 and CL-360.

https://www.cheetahstand.com/category-s/1938.htm

I use Canon 600's a lot (have 6 of them + ST-E3-RT) and use Einstein when I need more power. May consider the Cheetah as an in-between set-up, but then, how many different kits do I really want?



Sep 25, 2013 at 05:10 PM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Some weeks ago, FM Lighting forum members were supportive in my asking of questions related to an event shoot that I was required to do. I was, in particular, anxious about needing to use strobes as I felt only comfortable with continues or available light. I'll post results of what I walked away with, and a btw setup that shows the 4-speedlight setup. The images shown below are post-processed final versions.

1) Canon 1Dx, 24-70 II at about 60mm, and 580ex II speedlights (4ea)
2) Photix Odin system, all speedlights manual
3) Fills: 60" silver umbrella (2ea), each loaded with 580ex II - Odin Group A - Generally @ 1/2 power
4) Main key, top camera left Westcott 43" Apollo Orb softbox, loaded with 580, Odin Group B, Generally @ 1/4 power
5) Secondary Key (added key on dogs' faces), bottom camera left Westcott 28" Apollo soft box, loaded with 580, Odin Group C, Generally @ 1/8 Power

The 580's were fitted with a 3rd party battery pack Yongnuo YN-560 ($50 on Amazon) to reduce recycle time and lengthen the day.

My mistakes were to have not replaced the speedlight batteries throughout the day, as recycle time began to lag and I missed too many shots where the fills, in particular, didn't fire. I think my key lights should probably have been managed differently, as there wasn't much "key" by the time it reached subjects at camera right. So this left a fair amount of post work to cover those areas toward frame-right. The muslin wasn't taped adequately to the carpet floor, and this too, left post work to get rid of wrinkles.

It didn't take long to see that more strobe power would have allowed me to work at f11 and lower ISO, instead the 8-9 and ISO 500 that prevailed here.

I thank the Forum here for their support, and I walk away from this 1st-time project with some feeling that I could do better next time.

Many thanks to all.

John-







Best West Hotel Ballroom Corner























Edited on Oct 20, 2013 at 12:33 AM · View previous versions



Oct 20, 2013 at 12:22 AM
John Caldwell
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Last few:



















Oct 20, 2013 at 12:29 AM
markymarc
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Recommendation: Modifiers for Canon 580ex


Cool Leonberger pix! Never heard of that breed until you posted it.


Oct 20, 2013 at 01:23 AM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password