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Archive 2013 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers
  
 
ricardovaste
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


jmraso wrote:
Bytheway: thanks for the english lesson about "leave" to the poster.


+1




Sep 19, 2013 at 07:52 PM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


jmraso wrote:
very funny but that priest (probably always praying away and talking to God at night) is not helping the PROs do their job and feeding their little kids, lets say, not very Christian I would say.

Not helpful and pretty rude attitude towards the faithful. You may not understand their beliefs, but have a little respect.

BTW, their role is not to provide "PROs" an opportunity to make money.



Sep 19, 2013 at 08:06 PM
WNStudio
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I come from a really religious country- there's no way in hell that I'll be allowed to stand behind priest at any time during ceremony. This is a sacred area. So imo and from my experience priest had a reason to get upset esp. when nobody talked to him before. Did he have to be an ass...e- nope but we're all humans. Photo and video guys didn't help either.
I just feel sorry for b&g.



Sep 19, 2013 at 08:39 PM
Bearmann
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


ricardovaste wrote:
"This is not about the photography, this is about god"



Perhaps....... but if I'm there when God parts the Red Sea, you better bet I'm gonna get a picture of it!



(a non-wedding photographer's perspective)



Sep 19, 2013 at 09:00 PM
tonyhart
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Ian Ivey wrote:


It is not safe to assume that a vicar will treat a ceremony as less sacred simply because it is outdoors. This video is adequate to prove the point. If the vicar views it as a sacred ceremony, where the sacred ceremony occurs won't change the fact that the focus is on God, not on himself, the couple, the attendants, the photographers, or any other person present.



I don't know what this means. It sounds like a non sequitur about general church attendance, but I actually don't comprehend the point.


Apologies for the delay replying, had a game of squash!

Fair argument on the first point. I certainly think that an argument can be made in either direction. I agree that the ceremony can retain it's sacredness by being conducted elsewhere but the point I'm making is that a field/garden/outside area such as this doesn't have the clearly demarcated spaces and areas that a church building does. There's no defined sacristy/transepts nave etc in the same way. There are analogous but they're not clearly defined.

With reference to the second point, I'm saying that the actions of an individual or organisation such as a priest or church have ramifications on how people perceive those individuals or organisations. To label such a statement as non-sequiter is simply to avoid a reality that you find unpalatable. I'm not going to pursue it further than that, or engage again on that point because Cordell makes a valid point about it being outside of the relevant subject matter here.



Sep 19, 2013 at 09:45 PM
tonyhart
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


GCasey wrote:
Tony,

Usually, when I share my work, there is a blank stare. The silence then says, "But, what do you really do?" I'll try.

I worked and paid my way through college (psychology and business administration), attended graduate school and earned degrees in religious education, church administration, and theology.

I directed education programs in churches for 17 years, working with volunteers, in a variety of programs -- usually directing and coordinating work among scores of volunteers. For more than 26 years I was a financial consultant, specializing in helping volunteers in community and religious organizations raise big $$$ to fund their building programs.
...Show more

I'll be honest, I find this to be an astonishingly arrogant discourse. I particularly value the comment about telling scores of clergy how to do their job.

You also speak at length about how your career has involved clear communication yet in an early post you seemed surprised that a vague/implausible request delivered as a command 'leave' could be misunderstood.

I take particular issue however with your closing slogan. First off, as photographic service providers if someone else drops the ball that certainly makes my life tougher but I for one always attempt to pick it up again and improve my clients day. With the situation at hand, we have no definitive idea as to whether the photographic team did plan or not. It's simply a moot point as we can't know whether they did or not. You seem to be taking the assumptive position that these guys didn't plan.

As I've said a number of times in this thread, I know many photographers, including myself who attempt to go above and beyond in terms of research and planning ahead of a wedding day. Of all the 'elements' of a wedding day that I have worked with it's my experience that the people most likely to dash that planning to smithereens are members of the clergy. While many are great to work with, a significant proportion will happily say one thing and then change their mind later on. For this very reason I consider waving the "Failure to plan on your part does not create a crisis for me." banner on behalf of the clergy to be somewhat laughable. I for one prepare meticulously for all my weddings, as most other decent shooters I know also do, yet of all the categories of people involved in a wedding day it is the clergy that are most likely to jeopardise that very planning.

I have no major issue with churches that limit or even ban photography, on the proviso that this dictum is clear, understood at an early stage and enforced in a standardised manner. As a photographer it's somewhat disappointing, but I'll abide it as it's not my place to overrule. That said, I've been in churches when professional photography has been forbidden yet every guest is clicking away in the most obnoxious and distracting manner possible. iPhones, iPads, compact camera flash you name it. To put it bluntly, this pisses me off.

These photographers were clearly somewhat overbearing and I'm not defending them. However as a starting point for a conversation on clergy/photographer relations it reminds me that I've found it to be a sticky situation despite my very best efforts over my career.

One thing I'm still unclear on. Are you, or have you ever been a professional wedding photographer. That is to say, have you advertised yourself as such and earned the largest component of your income doing this job? I ask purely out of interest, I'm not trying to be inflammatory. I ask because I can't see a link to a website and I'm trying to assess the POV of the person I'm debating with.



Sep 19, 2013 at 10:07 PM
GCasey
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Tony,

You asked about my work, and I described it. Every action mentioned was in relation to why I was on site as the client's counsel for fund raising. It required thorough preparation and attention to detail -- all of which is necessary for groups of people to work together. I've shot enough weddings to know that the same principles apply, though I do not advertise myself as a wedding photographer.



Sep 19, 2013 at 10:58 PM
D. Diggler
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Ian Ivey wrote:
I think the priest's initial instruction had only one reasonable interpretation: get out from behind me and stop distracting from the ceremony. The "where do you want us to be" question was a combative response: it is spectacularly inappropriate to start engaging this priest in some kind of planning discussion at that point. The only appropriate move for those guys would have been to say one word, "sorry," and to move away without any discussion at all.


All spot on, Ian!

Hard to see where the photographers were standing but there's no way in hell the videographer should have set up where he was.

I see the priest's reaction as completely reasonable and what I would expect the typical priest to do in that situation.



Sep 20, 2013 at 12:28 AM
MazeRunner
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


The officiant could've asked nicer... but the "photographer" had a whole bunch of annoyingly loud clicks. It's one thing to click if you must, but to spam it like that is just asking to annoying someone.


Sep 20, 2013 at 12:46 AM
jtillery1
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I don't know about it being about god. Seems to me it's about the couple, it their day. The priest made the situation about him and his beliefs. I understand churches have policies, but that looks to be outside.


Sep 20, 2013 at 01:16 AM
 

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dmacmillan
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


jtillery1 wrote:
I don't know about it being about god. Seems to me it's about the couple, it their day. The priest made the situation about him and his beliefs. I understand churches have policies, but that looks to be outside.

I take it you're not a church goer and know little about faith.


Edited on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:40 AM · View previous versions



Sep 20, 2013 at 02:34 AM
jtillery1
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


No I am not a church goer cause I found a majority of church goers seem to jump to conclusions and make assumptions about those that disagree with them.



Sep 20, 2013 at 02:44 AM
taran
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


This is partially my fault, and I feel horrible about it.

Back when there were fewer digital cameras @10 years ago, still young and adventurous, I would "do things" with my cameras that would now be considered gauche. Couldn't help myself, many wedding shots simply hadn't been tried before, and I greedily assumed I should be the one to try them all.

Mid ceremony, I reached my camera around the priest and shot a couple frames via fisheye of all the principles with my camera 1mm off the bible, while the ring was going on.

This is an extremely embarrassing admission, but as a photo junkie, I had never seen that shot before, so I went for it. Nobody said anything back then because people weren't as accustomed to jerk "camera guys".

If this has made life harder for anyone I don't know, but for you "real" professionals out there, if a priest or a rabbi or a cleric or a druid happens to be giving you a super difficult time, it might be because of something I did... sorry.



Sep 20, 2013 at 03:03 AM
D. Diggler
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


MazeRunner wrote:
The officiant could've asked nicer.


He said, "please". What more do you want.



Sep 20, 2013 at 03:24 AM
Micky Bill
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


taran wrote:
This is partially my fault, and I feel horrible about it.

Back when there were fewer digital cameras @10 years ago, still young and adventurous, I would "do things" with my cameras that would now be considered gauche. Couldn't help myself, many wedding shots simply hadn't been tried before, and I greedily assumed I should be the one to try them all.

Mid ceremony, I reached my camera around the priest and shot a couple frames via fisheye of all the principles with my camera 1mm off the bible, while the ring was going on.

This is an extremely embarrassing admission, but
...Show more


That sounds like a wicked cool shot!



Sep 20, 2013 at 03:43 AM
jmraso
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


WNStudio wrote:
there's no way in hell that I'll be allowed to stand behind priest at any time during ceremony. This is a sacred area.


Not so much in an open ceremony, totally different than getting into the altar in church.

The PROs answering back to the priest where to go after the first "leave" it may be a secure question so
they can tell the B&G that they just didnt leave without trying something to stay there though I agree that they
should have moved away from behind and keep on shooting from a different angel, they made it worst setting up
on fire that beast I mean that priest.




Sep 20, 2013 at 08:10 AM
ricardovaste
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Bearmann wrote:
Perhaps....... but if I'm there when God parts the Red Sea, you better bet I'm gonna get a picture of it!



(a non-wedding photographer's perspective)


Wasn't that Moses? Or a giraffe? Maybe Jiminy Cricket Either way, if that does happen when I'm there, it might be a good time to hire a second. That way I could send him in under Jeremy to get a frogs-eye-view perspective.



Sep 20, 2013 at 10:00 AM
cordellwillis
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


D. Diggler wrote:
He said, "please". What more do you want.


He was a b@tch about it in the middle of a ceremony that was special to the couple. God or not.



Sep 20, 2013 at 01:25 PM
cordellwillis
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


jtillery1 wrote:
No I am not a church goer cause I found a majority of church goers seem to jump to conclusions and make assumptions about those that disagree with them.


Dude, if I had a $100 I would send it to you. Thank you for this on point reply.



Sep 20, 2013 at 01:26 PM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


jtillery1 wrote:
No I am not a church goer cause I found a majority of church goers seem to jump to conclusions and make assumptions about those that disagree with them.

I actually agree with you here. Interestingly, recent published remarks by Pope Francis indicate he also agrees with you.

My awkward response was in reaction to "making it about him and his beliefs". I'm thinking since the couple chose to have a religious ceremony for their wedding instead of a civil ceremony, that they share some of the beliefs of the institution to which both they and the priest belong.

I grew up in a time and place where church going was far more prevalent. Back then photographers were more likely to know the "rules of the road". I'm disheartened with the oft stated view here that the religious aspect of church weddings, including the clergy entrusted with ensuring those religious aspects are observed, are at best an annoyance to wedding photographers.

I see attitudes that suggest that those who express them have forgotten that they are a guest. You don't have to hold their beliefs or any beliefs at all, but common decency dictates you respect and abide by their traditions.



Sep 20, 2013 at 02:23 PM
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