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Priest calling out videographers/photographers
  
 
joelconner
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


GCasey wrote:
What part of "Please leave" do you not understand?


It was pretty unclear to me as well when I first watched it. "Leave" can mean just the altar, the front area, or the entire premises. It ends up he meant for them to leave the front area. That was definitely not clear (hence, them needing to ask)



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:19 PM
sboerup
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I can't say the Officiant did it with the proper tact and respect for his "office", but, the principle behind it was correct.

While we can only view a small portion of "where" the photographers were (it looks like there was a ton), standing behind the altar and hearing "click click click" would piss me off too if I was a minister. In his mind he's doing something far more important, and this was probably the tipping point for him after seeing similar behavior by other photographers throughout past weddings. I can't blame him for sticking up for what he believes is right.

The fact the photographers had to ask "where would you like me to be" solidifies to me that the photographers didn't care where they stood. I'd be mortified if I caused a scene at a wedding! I think there is room to blame on both sides, although the Priest just did it more publicly, because its easier to forgive a photographer for being disruptive to your wedding, rather than the priest.



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:26 PM
tonyhart
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


sboerup wrote:
The fact the photographers had to ask "where would you like me to be" solidifies to me that the photographers didn't care where they stood. I'd be mortified if I caused a scene at a wedding! I think there is room to blame on both sides, although the Priest just did it more publicly, because its easier to forgive a photographer for being disruptive to your wedding, rather than the priest.


Have to agree, I'd be mortified if I caused a scene at a wedding too. Thing is, I feel like this sort of thing could happen, with certain officiants, despite 'best practice' on the part of the photographer. I've worked with people who really are that problematic. Not often thankfully, most are very positive experiences, but occasionally.

I guess that's a part of why I'm less than ready to condemn photographers in situations like this.



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:29 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I've been called out once, but only because the priest mistakenly thought the video guy was a part of the photography team. This video guy just got up during the sermon, walked in front of the congregants, and started filming them watching the priest deliver the sermon.

Unfortunately for me, I happened to be toward the front of the room on the other side, at the time. I was so surprised by the videographer's high-visibility move that I just froze in place (to avoid compounding the problem). But it was so over the top that the priest interrupted his sermon and said, loudly, "Okay, would the photographers please stop shooting and moving around? This is a solemn service, not a photo shoot."

I quickly knelt down and nodded toward the priest, and he saw me do that, so he -- mercifully -- did not insist that I do more to draw attention to myself. The videographer grunted and slunk off to the back. I couldn't believe it (and I made a point to tell the priest afterward that he wasn't with us, and that we would never have done what he did).

But I did not blame the priest at all. A Christian service is not about the couple. It is about God and his ordination of a union among the two people and himself. I see a lot of photographers complain about restrictions at churches saying things like, "this is about the couple -- it's their day." That is a fundamentally ignorant perspective of a church wedding in a church of any significant orthodoxy. The couple, like the photographer, the attendants, and the congregants, are simply participants in a holy event that is primarily about God.



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:57 PM
cordellwillis
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


GCasey wrote:
What part of "Please leave" do you not understand?


The part where the priest disrespected the couples wedding day.

I take it that no matter the circumstance you feel that the correct thing to do is make EVERYONE uncomfortable and spoil what should be a great memorable day?

There was a very simple solution; turn back to the video guy and whisper in his ear to move. This way the couple would not have been affected. Matter of fact, he could have simply let the "moment" in time go and talked with the video guy after the ceremony about any other future events he may video. This relieves all embarrassments and helps a guy out.

Yes, the videographer was absolutely wrong (if no discussion was made prior to). That isn't the point. Corrective measures were not taken by the priest.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:00 PM
cordellwillis
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Ian Ivey wrote:
It is about God and his ordination of a union among the two people and himself. I see a lot of photographers complain about restrictions at churches saying things like, "this is about the couple -- it's their day." That is a fundamentally ignorant perspective of a church wedding in a church of any significant orthodoxy. The couple, like the photographer, the attendants, and the congregants, are simply participants in a holy event that is primarily about God.


So you're saying the priest should or shouldn't make a spectacle of it? Seems to me that is the only party to this who is putting everyone notice. Simply educate the "ignorant" in a peaceful non-embarrassing way.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:05 PM
tonyhart
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Ian Ivey wrote:
I've been called out once, but only because the priest mistakenly thought the video guy was a part of the photography team. This video guy just got up during the sermon, walked in front of the congregants, and started filming them watching the priest deliver the sermon.

Unfortunately for me, I happened to be toward the front of the room on the other side, at the time. I was so surprised by the videographer's high-visibility move that I just froze in place (to avoid compounding the problem). But it was so over the top that the priest interrupted his
...Show more

I agree with the assertion that a church wedding is first and foremost a religious affair. However I have two issues with that as far as this discussion goes:

1. I know that you were talking about your specific situation, but this situation is different. The wedding is not taking place in a church. It may still be a religious ceremony, but by choosing an outside wedding the couple - and the officiant agreeing to conduct the marriage there - this is surely a less regimented affair. For a start, there isn't an altar or recognised areas of greater and lesser sacredness.

2. If church weddings are primarily about God and not about the couple then so be it. I'm not a religious person and therefore don't deign to judge. However, if that's the case, those who hold such a view cannot bemoan the reduction of church going numbers. It's an either/or situation.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:08 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


cordellwillis wrote:
So you're saying the priest should or shouldn't make a spectacle of it? Seems to me that is the only party to this who is putting everyone notice. Simply educate the "ignorant" in a peaceful non-embarrassing way.


Me? I'm not in a position to say whether the priest should have handled this differently. I don't know what transpired before this, whether there was discussion ahead of time, or whether the crew (obviously there were at least two people back there making enough of a ruckus to get the attention of someone who had his back to them) were cooperative or combative before the ceremony began.

I think the priest's initial instruction had only one reasonable interpretation: get out from behind me and stop distracting from the ceremony. The "where do you want us to be" question was a combative response: it is spectacularly inappropriate to start engaging this priest in some kind of planning discussion at that point. The only appropriate move for those guys would have been to say one word, "sorry," and to move away without any discussion at all.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:14 PM
cordellwillis
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Be careful about making this a religious discussion. There are those who will get angry because someone has different views on life We don't need that stuff on this mostly positive forum.


Sep 19, 2013 at 06:15 PM
jefferies1
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I got called out one time after going over all the rules before the ceremony. I guess they wanted to change them. It was quite a surprise.

In the video the voice seems clear so he must have had a mic attached. Seems like if he had a list of places to not be he would have mention them ahead of time. I am sure it was not his first wedding with video and photography.Either way that ceremony was all about him, not the couple getting married. Ruin a couples special moment to prove you are in charge. I thought God was about love and forgiveness. I guess not during weddings.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:16 PM
 

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Ian Ivey
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


tonyhart wrote:
1. ... The wedding is not taking place in a church. It may still be a religious ceremony, but by choosing an outside wedding the couple - and the officiant agreeing to conduct the marriage there - this is surely a less regimented affair. For a start, there isn't an altar or recognised areas of greater and lesser sacredness.


It is not safe to assume that a vicar will treat a ceremony as less sacred simply because it is outdoors. This video is adequate to prove the point. If the vicar views it as a sacred ceremony, where the sacred ceremony occurs won't change the fact that the focus is on God, not on himself, the couple, the attendants, the photographers, or any other person present.

tonyhart wrote:
2. If church weddings are primarily about God and not about the couple then so be it. I'm not a religious person and therefore don't deign to judge. However, if that's the case, those who hold such a view cannot bemoan the reduction of church going numbers. It's an either/or situation.


I don't know what this means. It sounds like a non sequitur about general church attendance, but I actually don't comprehend the point.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:19 PM
cordellwillis
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Ian Ivey wrote:
I think the priest's initial instruction had only one reasonable interpretation: get out from behind me and stop distracting from the ceremony. The "where do you want us to be" question was a combative response: it is spectacularly inappropriate to start engaging this priest in some kind of planning discussion at that point. The only appropriate move for those guys would have been to say one word, "sorry," and to move away without any discussion at all.


Regardless of the interpretation, (to me) the priest's reaction made the bigger distraction. Sometimes you gotta let it go to help those who simply screw up to not spoil things for others.

I also didn't think the guy's response was combative. I took it as asking for clarity given the situation. That's like someone asking 'who me' and they are the only one standing there.

Even if the couple is extremely religious and their beliefs fall every bit in line with the priest, the "book", etc, the subject that will be discussed more in regards to their wedding day is priest/videographer, not God. My view is that it wasn't worth it for the priest to blow up the situation.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:26 PM
Micky Bill
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


yup it was kind of a train wreck...We don;t know what kind of discussions or behaviour led up to this and I think on a wedding photo forum there is going got be a lot of sympathy for the photographer team, but it seems that everyone involved could've done it better.
The minister was making a point that to him it's the ceremony that is most important thing, the photographer(s) were making a point that to them the photography of the ceremony is the most important thing. Both are right and both are wrong.
The B and G are left in the middle.


Edited on Sep 19, 2013 at 06:30 PM · View previous versions



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:28 PM
GCasey
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Tony,

Usually, when I share my work, there is a blank stare. The silence then says, "But, what do you really do?" I'll try.

I worked and paid my way through college (psychology and business administration), attended graduate school and earned degrees in religious education, church administration, and theology.

I directed education programs in churches for 17 years, working with volunteers, in a variety of programs -- usually directing and coordinating work among scores of volunteers. For more than 26 years I was a financial consultant, specializing in helping volunteers in community and religious organizations raise big $$$ to fund their building programs. Again, my work required enabling people to do specific jobs and coordinating the work of scores of people on a very tight time frame. In one state-wide project, during a five month period of time, more than 1,600 different people helped; they set a goal of raising $3 million and raised $4 million.

Thorough intensive and extensive communication in my work was/is an absolute necessity. It was/is important that each person know his/her job and to know that others were doing their jobs on a united, simultaneous basis. Job descriptions were provided -- enough structure for guidance and enough flexibility to tailor to meet local circumstances.

Yes, I've told scores of clergy -- bishops, priests, and pastors -- and volunteers what their job was -- and then helped them do it on very tight time schedule. My 'telling' includes a written, detailed plan, as well as verbal reminders of what is coming next.

I've shot many news photos for papers and magazines, have illustrated needs of a wide variety of causes, and have photographed weddings and families.

Communication among all parties is absolutely necessary. Each person involved in a wedding wants it to go well. Each person wants to do his or her part well and to know specifics on what others are doing.

Most churches have, whether written or unwritten, wedding policies. The bride, the parents, and the photographer need a copy and need to agree to those policies or seek another venue.

It's the responsibility of photographer to make sure that all parties know what to expect about the photography during a wedding.

There's no excuse for a bride's barking orders about photography as she starts down the aisle. Yes, a wedding is about the bride and groom, but it's also about many more people.

I could go on, but won't. One slogan that has helped me: "Failure to plan on your part does not create a crisis for me."



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:29 PM
amonline
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Noobs. All of them. Noobs.


Sep 19, 2013 at 06:50 PM
ultimaterowdy
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I first thought this was categorizing FM members ourselves :

1. Those who respect a well-intentioned conversation and recognise that there are a number of considerations at play.

2. Those who are intractable, obstinate and go out of their way to make life more difficult.



Sep 19, 2013 at 06:59 PM
sherijohnson
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I am glad someone posted this here, I saw it first thing this morning when I found the link in my email. My initial thoughts before the priest spoke up and turned around is how noisy the photographer was, all the clicking and sounds like shot gunning continuous shooting. I think that is what really caused him to get upset, of course we can't see how close they were, but I am thinking quite close. Above all I think we should do our jobs, stay out of the way, respect everyone including the guests, the officiant, the couple. You can do the job normally without being all up in someone's ear or face. Ideally you want to always discuss with officiant what their rules or wishes are concerning where you can go or any other restrictions they may have. Most of the time I am given quite a bit of freedom, but I still do not distract or block anyone's view of the ceremony. I also feel quite strongly about keeping the equipment as silent as possible, turning off camera sounds where applicable.


Sep 19, 2013 at 07:10 PM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


tonyhart wrote:
It may still be a religious ceremony, but by choosing an outside wedding the couple - and the officiant agreeing to conduct the marriage there - this is surely a less regimented affair. For a start, there isn't an altar or recognised areas of greater and lesser sacredness.

Look again. There is definitely an area that would be considered an altar. We can't see in the video if there was anything behind the officiant, but in many religions, the area behind the officiant has greater sacredness than the space in front of him/her.

Don't assume an outdoor space is less sacred than a sanctuary. Sanctity is defined by what happens in the space, not by what the space looks like. Also keep in mind the wedding ceremony is not only a worship service, it is also considered one of the Sacraments by some Christian faiths. We have been referring to this person as a priest. If he was a Catholic priest and this is a Catholic service, his frustration would be even more understandable.



Sep 19, 2013 at 07:24 PM
ricardovaste
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Micky Bill wrote:
it seems that everyone involved could've done it better.
.


Agreed.

Interesting to read speculation outside, but ultimately we cannot know the full extent in this exact situation. So to try and push more blame in either direction is useful for discussion, but lets remember there is not right or wrong in unexplained circumstances. Thankfully, god will hopefully forgive any disagreements we might have.

I found my recent discussion of a similar topic pretty useful / productive, as I could actually divulge specific details and circumstances :-)



Sep 19, 2013 at 07:45 PM
jmraso
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


very funny but that priest (probably always praying away and talking to God at night) is not helping the PROs do their job and feeding their little kids, lets say, not very Christian I would say.

Maybe they didnt talk to the priest earlier on, maybe they are kind of new in the business, lets say (who knows) and make mistakes of this kind, maybe they were too close, so what that doesnt mean they dont deserve an opportunity or another way to be treated.

The priest is an ash...e in my opinion.

This is about everything not just about God, what year he thinks he is living, do your job and let others do their.

Bytheway: thanks for the english lesson about "leave" to the poster.



Sep 19, 2013 at 07:45 PM
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