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Archive 2013 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers
  
 
joelconner
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Sorry beforehand if this is a repost, but I had not seen it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oReLN5nntKw



Sep 19, 2013 at 02:00 PM
SGallant
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


ehh that was a pretty bad spot to be in, if they didn't speak to the priest beforehand they deserved what they got. If you notice as the video guy was backing up they had some sort of a reverse of things going on with the wedding party being behind the ceremony location.


Sep 19, 2013 at 02:05 PM
joelconner
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I am guessing they did not talk to the priest beforehand...mistake on their part. Also, based on the view from when they move the video camera at the end, it seems like that person was almost right up on them from not more than a few feet away. I think I might get annoyed if they were THAT close as well.

But...the priest could have handled it so differently, and you can see how uncomfortable it made the couple feel. He definitely had a negative impact on their experience, and that's the biggest failure of the entire situation.



Sep 19, 2013 at 02:07 PM
GCasey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


The priest is the main problem? Absolute nonsense!

It's obvious the videographer did not talk with the priest before the ceremony and assumed he could shoot as he pleased. The videographer made matters worse by arguing when the priest told him to leave. How many times did the priest tell him to leave?

. . . . And some photographers wonder why church develop policies for photographers.



Sep 19, 2013 at 02:42 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Just seen this. Came looking to discuss it. It's hard to have an informed opinion without seeing the before and after.

My first thoughts are that I'm just appalled at the whole thing. We're all there in the interests of the couple and this situation would have made me yack. I'm not sure I'd have gotten that close unless it was a very small indoor location and there was no other choice (and I'd have cleared it with those running the ceremony first) but given the location of the attendants it may have been a case of very few other angles making any sense.

On a personal level, the whole thing makes me palpably angry. I don't care whether you're religious or not, this is a complete fail on the part of the minister. He could have handled the situation softly (if he felt compelled to handle it) but instead the lasting memory for the B&G will be their minister kicking off at the photog/video people. Pretty shocking really. Good on the photographers for keeping their cool and not exacerbating the situation but if it'd had been me and I'd had a conversation ahead of the ceremony you can bet your ass I'd have kicked off, in private, after it. It's not even in a church for crying out loud.

Friction between clergy and photographers is utterly unnecessary. I hate it so much that it actually beats out excessive groups as my numero uno wedding day stressache.



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:28 PM
Njphotostudio
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Lack of communication among every one. I always make sure to talk to my clients before wedding if the officiant will be ok with taking photos. And on the day of the event, I double check again with client and officiant where can I stand without any problems. Plus I even ask as a request if possible where and how they should face so I could record the even with photo or video. After all, it is the clients special day and they want nice memories of it. So every one have to be in the same program.



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:30 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


How do we know they didn't have a conversation? I mean, I agree that that's the most probable scenario, but is there somewhere that that's made clear? I've encountered, on a number of occasions, officiants of one kind or another who reneg on previously agreed plans. Thankfully never midway through a service, but I've seen it done.


Sep 19, 2013 at 03:32 PM
SGallant
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


tonyhart wrote:
How do we know they didn't have a conversation? I mean, I agree that that's the most probable scenario, but is there somewhere that that's made clear? I've encountered, on a number of occasions, officiants of one kind or another who reneg on previously agreed plans. Thankfully never midway through a service, but I've seen it done.


This is a good point. A few weeks back I had a conversation with the church lady about where I could stand during the processional, recessional and during the ceremony itself. When it came time for the processional the priest tapped me on the shoulder and tells me I can't stand where the church lady and I agreed because I was in the way. Um well that's lame, why did I talk it out in advance?

If this photographer and videographer didn't have a conversation in advance than they are just a couple of tools.



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:40 PM
canerino
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


The priest probably isnt wrong in this case here. But man, why does he have to be a dick about it? "Excuse me gentlemen, would you mind moving your equipment from behind the proceedings? Thank you."


Sep 19, 2013 at 03:44 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


SGallant wrote:
This is a good point. A few weeks back I had a conversation with the church lady about where I could stand during the processional, recessional and during the ceremony itself. When it came time for the processional the priest tapped me on the shoulder and tells me I can't stand where the church lady and I agreed because I was in the way. Um well that's lame, why did I talk it out in advance?

If this photographer and videographer didn't have a conversation in advance than they are just a couple of tools.


Indeed on both counts!

Reminds me of the situation Rich Harris had a few weeks ago in which prior to the ceremony the Vicar essentially 'forgot' all the discussions and agreements they'd made at the rehearsal.

I'm sorry but while I won't deny that the camera men were close, I can't condone this guys actions in anyway shape or form.



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:45 PM
 

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tonyhart
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


canerino wrote:
The priest probably isnt wrong in this case here. But man, why does he have to be a dick about it? "Excuse me gentlemen, would you mind moving your equipment from behind the proceedings? Thank you."


Exactly. Asking nicely is surely the least he could do.



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:46 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


"This is not about the photography, this is about god"




Sep 19, 2013 at 03:47 PM
photolove84
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


ricardovaste wrote:
"This is not about the photography, this is about god"



I am all for respecting the rules of the church but I had "church lady" say this exact same thing to me years ago when I asked what their rules were. She got so hostile and rude and all I could think to say to calm her down was "yes exactly why I'm asking where I am and am not allowed to stand because I DO want to respect your rules" but really all I was thinking was "yes but we were hired by the bride and groom because they WANT photos of this moment!!!!"

Then I had an officiant tell me a year or so ago that we weren't allowed to take ANY photos during the ceremony. When I ran to ask the bride about this she totally freaked out and said "NO, I HAVE to have photos of my ceremony. She must mean no flash photos, that must be what she means" so I ran back to again ask the officiant, and she said "no absolutely no photos what so ever" and when I said "well, the bride was under the impression it was just no flash" then the officiant let out a huge sigh and said "you can take photos if you stay in one spot in the back and do NOT move" and everyone was happy. but what the heck? she thought it was okay to say no photos and never tell the bride and groom that?!?!? Just as much as it's not all about the photos, it's not all about the church, it's about the BRIDE AND GROOM!



Sep 19, 2013 at 03:59 PM
GCasey
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


Njphotostudio wrote:
Lack of communication among every one. I always make sure to talk to my clients before wedding if the officiant will be ok with taking photos. And on the day of the event, I double check again with client and officiant where can I stand without any problems. Plus I even ask as a request if possible where and how they should face so I could record the even with photo or video. After all, it is the clients special day and they want nice memories of it. So every one have to be in the same program.



Perfect procedure and solution!

When one of our friends planned the wedding of their daughter, they wanted nice memories (photos) and were impressed with a photographer who suggested working with the pastor to record the event. They wanted it to be about the couple and did not want the photographer wandering around and disturbing people in any way. In this wedding a husband/wife team stayed in one position and photographed the ceremony without flash. They got the photos the parents and bride wanted without irritating guests.

All parties need to work together. Talk over the photo procedures ahead of time. It is not reasonable for a bride to demand at the last second that she MUST have photos when taking those photos will create some problems for all concerned. Don't assume anything!


Edited on Sep 19, 2013 at 04:20 PM · View previous versions



Sep 19, 2013 at 04:12 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


GCasey wrote:
Perfect procedure and solution!

When one of our friends planned the wedding of their daughter, they wanted nice memories (photos) and were impressed with a photographer whom suggested working with the pastor to record the event. They wanted it to be about the couple and did not want the photographer wandering around and disturbing people in any way. In this wedding a husband/wife team stayed in one position and photographed the ceremony without flash. They got the photos the parents and bride wanted without irritating guests.


I quite agree. Thing is, how do you know the cameramen didn't have this conversation? Do any guests look irritated here?



Sep 19, 2013 at 04:15 PM
GCasey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


tonyhart wrote:
I quite agree. Thing is, how do you know the cameramen didn't have this conversation? Do any guests look irritated here?


The videographer asked the priest, 'Do you want me to leave?" about three times before finally leaving. The priest seemed surprised that the guy was practically resting his camera on the priest's shoulder. The couple was also embarrassed that the video guy was creating a major, unnecessary scene. Also not known is whether the priest had told the videographer where he could/could not stand when taking photos and was then surprised that he snuck up behind him.

There was major miscommunication. The photographer has to work with several parties -- parents, bride, officiant, the 'church lady,' etc., and all need to know what to expect. .A little common sense goes a long way.

The guests are mostly out of focus, and their expressions are not really visible.




Sep 19, 2013 at 04:36 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


canerino wrote:
The priest probably isnt wrong in this case here. But man, why does he have to be a dick about it? "Excuse me gentlemen, would you mind moving your equipment from behind the proceedings? Thank you."

I don't know what transpired before the video starts. I'm going to withhold judgement about whether the officiant was a "dick". Maybe he asked politely beforehand (I get the feeling there was discussion we didn't see) and got ignored. They seem to be right on top of him. I hear a lot of shutter noise and I also hear the photographer talking back to him.

Boundaries are harder to identify in an outdoor setting as opposed to a sanctuary. That's why communication between the photographer, videographer and officiant is especially important in outdoor venues. We have no idea where the communication breakdown occurred, therefore it is unfair to label the officiant as a dick using what we know.

For the record, I've seen far more asshole photographers than I've seen asshole clergy.



Sep 19, 2013 at 04:42 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


I'm sorry but 'Please leave' is pretty unclear language from the get go. Firstly, the togs had to deal with the probably astonishing OMFG-is-this-actually-happening shock of the situation, followed by trying to dissect what he meant by 'Please leave'.

'Would you like me to get in my vehicle and drive away officer?'

'Do you want me to simply move back?'

'Where can I stand?'

All of these are reactions that would be perfectly understandable in the situation and neccessary to translate from what is being said to what is actually being requested.

I imagine you're right, a convo probably did not happen, but the experiences of myself, and many other photographers here tell me that having a polite and respectful up-front conversation with the officiant ahead of time doesn't preclude this sort of behaviour and similar.

At the end of the day, this is not analogous to a kid being told to move off someone's front lawn. His request may interfere with the photographer and videographers ability to do their job. I'm not saying that it will, or that it should, but it may. We get paid good money to photograph peoples nuptials and while I always go out of my way to be respectful and cede to the officiants wishes, the reality is that it's not the only consideration.



Sep 19, 2013 at 04:49 PM
GCasey
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


What part of "Please leave" do you not understand?


Sep 19, 2013 at 05:04 PM
tonyhart
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Priest calling out videographers/photographers


GCasey wrote:
What part of "Please leave" do you not understand?


In that situation, pretty much all of it.

Leave:

1.
- go away from: she left London on June 6
- depart from permanently: at the age of sixteen he left home.
- cease attending (a school or college) or working for (an organization)

His wording, alongside a frankly pretty direct challenge suggests that he may actually be asking the tog/vid people to 'depart permanently', a request that is neither reasonable, believable or achievable given that they're paid employees with as much a job to do as he.

If he'd turned around and asked them to 'Please move back a bit' or words to that effect then he may have found that they complied a hell of a lot quicker and with far less issue.

I'm picking a fight on this one because although we don't know the full circumstances surrounding this situation, what is portrayed in the video is ridiculous and therefore defending the actions portrayed in this video is also ridiculous.

Everyone I know on FM is largely respectful and professional with their dealings with officiants of all kinds. My experience of clergy is that they broadly fall into two categories:

1. Those who respect a well-intentioned conversation and recognise that there are a number of considerations at play.

2. Those who are intractable, obstinate and go out of their way to make life more difficult.

I'm not familiar with your work, what's your experience of these situations?



Sep 19, 2013 at 05:15 PM
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