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Archive 2013 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe

  
 
RustyBug
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


chez wrote:
Seems to me that you don't need CC at all. So what's the beef then? You should be very excited that you have CS6 and it will suffice your needs forever. Why do you care so much if other people see a value in the features of CC? I don't get it.

Could you explain your fascination with CC when you stated numerous times it's not for you and all you do now is make mockery of the whole thing, in efforts of putting down people who think CC is valuable to them.



You misunderstand. I make no effort to make a mockery of anything. I strive for understanding and part of that understanding warrants a degree of vetting things presented at face value from the marketing suits of Adobe (and parroting of it). If it were not for the fact that I respect and appreciate the many members of FM who are claiming it to be a "no brainer", I'd likely have not near the interest and simply go along with my uneducated opinion / perception. By engaging with respected fellow members, I afford myself the opportunity to learn something from others. However, just because someone says that CC is a "no brainer" ... does that mean I should accept it with blind faith, or should I investigate why they feel so strongly about it.

I have no problem with other people seeing value in it. I was just trying to understand why it is that well respected members can see mountains of value such that they then suggest staying on CS6 is foolish and CC is a "no brainer". I really don't know that I've put anyone down for thinking CC is valuable ... I've only asked them to explain why they think it is so valuable and then responded with corresponding perspective @ CS6. In fact, on numerous occasions I've given credence to various aspects of CC for varying applications/reasons. If I were intent on making a mockery, I never would have given such credence.

All I aspire for is a proper understanding of the actual differences. You and others have made your case for CC. In doing so, I have listened and offered rebuttal ... which affords opportunity for you to augment and strengthen the case for CC. My rebuttal is not intended as a mockery ... just putting my cards on the table as I see things, which gives others the opportunity to correct me where I'm errant.

A little humor/levity now and again, even a smidgeon of snarky on a rare occasion ... but my intent is pure to foster a better understanding as to how much is just a new coat of paint and some fuzzy dice vs. a new set of pistons and a gear change. Relocating the battery to the trunk has performance value for some, not so much for others. Does the battery relocation make it a fundamentally better performing car, or does it just reduce your available trunk space. I'm just checking under the hood rather than believing everything the salesman suggests.

Apologies for my part in making you think I was aspiring toward mockery.





Edited on Sep 23, 2013 at 06:24 PM · View previous versions



Sep 23, 2013 at 05:57 PM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


^^^ ^^^



Eyeball wrote:
Just a clarification going the other way: Pre-CC ACR works on Jpegs, TIFs, and PSDs. It is not limited to just raw files.

There is some additional flexibility in terms of retaining layers with the ACR-as-a-filter though, as I mentioned previously. By the way, I confirmed (via J. Kost's blog) that ACR-as-a-filter can be applied as a Smart Filter (i.e., to multiple layers inside a Smart Object).



Kewl, thanks for clarifying that. So really anyone could clarify this in just a few steps:

1) Open PS CC, and create a new document.
2) See if ACR Filter is available.
3) Add a Smart Object layer, and select it.
4) And again see if ACR Filter is available.

If the answer is "yes" for 2 or 4 then it's confirmed. Now try adding a color gradient cloud render (via PS's plug-ins) and taking the layer into ACR Filter and seeing what ACR tools if any are ineffectual.



Oh, and Chez, you keep my compost outta this - ya'hear.




Sep 23, 2013 at 05:58 PM
chez
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Bifurcator wrote:
Oh, and Chez, you keep my compost outta this - ya'hear.



You opened the barn door and it just poured out.



Sep 23, 2013 at 06:07 PM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Hehe... Well then maybe it'll keep ya busy avoiding stepping in it and you won't have as much time to pull Rusty's chain? hehe...


Edited on Sep 23, 2013 at 06:11 PM · View previous versions



Sep 23, 2013 at 06:10 PM
RustyBug
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Bif's "compost" ... now that's some "politically correct" language. You must have just come from a mandatory refresher course in sensitivity training.


Sep 23, 2013 at 06:15 PM
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


We all love you (anyway) Chez! Consider it a given!




Sep 23, 2013 at 07:51 PM
Access
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


I forsee a future where pricing is different based on usage or where adobe finds some other way to justify different prices for different users (ie. limiting cheaper prices to certain cameras or number of photos processed per month).

From a business perspective the problem is that a one-size-fits-all price does not maximize the amount of money they could make from each person. The idea is to get the price up to the maximum level each person is willing to pay for the service. For instance, to a professional photographer who runs a business, this price might be $29.99 or even higher (since the software is vital and he cannot live without it). To a college student who is learning photography, or to a casual user, the market may only support $9.99 a month. So adobe will look for ways to identify or differentiate the two different customer bases, ie. more than 100 photos processed a month, more than 24 hours of application runtime per month, etc., and develop different pricing plans to maximize the amount of money they make from each customer.

Perhaps the cheaper version would also have other ways of offsetting the cost, for instance an adobe watermark on every final image outputted by the software or some form or built-in adds or an ad-supported application as well as data-mining and collecting information about subjects, photography types, demographics, etc.



Sep 23, 2013 at 08:10 PM
melcat
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Lars Johnsson wrote:
Others have already posted some of the new things you get with the CC version compared to the CS 6 version.

...
More lens corrections
...



But do they work properly? Of my several Canon L lenses that require lens correction, only one of Adobe's profiles shipped with CS6 is actually correct. One other has a user-contributed profile on Adobe's site that works (the bundled one is wrong). The others produce wrong results.

These aren't obscure lenses and I don't think, in 2013, it's unreasonable to expect a raw converter to get this right.

I was hoping the profiles shipped with CS6 were better, but they appear unchanged from CS5.

And yes, I know I could make my own (as I had to with the camera profiles) but it's donkey work, something I would actually be happy to pay Adobe to do - if I could be sure they would do it and not just take the money and not do it.



Sep 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Eyeball wrote:
As I posted a minute ago, you do if you want the ACR changes to impact pixel-level edits that you have added in PS. If all you want to do is change ACR edits that you brought in as a smart object, then you're right - you do not need to bring it back in.


+1



Sep 24, 2013 at 12:21 AM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


^^^ To be clear the ACR Filter does "go out" and "come back in" identically to ACR in CS6. The only difference (for the umpteenth time) is that it can now act on user created layers and on any file-type. It can act as a Smart Object filter and a destructive filter - which it couldn't (at least with RAW) before.



Access, Melcat, all,
I dunno about prices in the future but I'll bet the lens profiles ship with CS6.1 or whatever they call the next update (if there is one). I bet the ACR_Filter follows in as well.



All,
As a slight update I downloaded the trial of PS CC from Adobe just now to see what was up. The process is painless. It knows your account info if you already have one - which you do if you ever posted on their forums, commented on their on-line manual, or filled out a bug report in the past. You just download and install the "Creative Cloud" application which is basically just a live updater/downloader (and ought to be great for sales!). If you selected the PS CC trial (or purchase) it downloads and installs the PS CC app which is v14.0 (x64 on my Mac) as opposed to CS6 PS which is v13.0 (x64 on my mac) and asks if you wanna inherit your settings from CS6 PS if you had one installed. I answered yes and it said it failed but 100% of all my settings came in anyway.

That's it, and you're ready to use PS CC v 14.0 If after you quit the app you decide you don't want to connect to any of the Adobe CC facilities you can just configure your network not to allow any connections and PS CC will still run (in my case for the next 30 days) just fine.

Yup, the ACR Filter works with everything. from 2bit Indexed color files to actual 32bit full HRDI's. I didn't check this in v13.0 (CS6) but 32bit HDR histograms in both PS and ACR now look and act like you would expect - which is different (fixed) from CS5 IIRC. Everything worked perfectly. with Alpha channels or flat, as Smart Objects (if you want ACR Filter to remember the settings last used for that layer or file) and as plain layers and BGs. Perfect and flawless - all the tools and sliders worked in all file Modes and in 32bit HDR many were enhanced (as you would expect given that it has a massively bigger exposure range to act upon).

Alll of my fifty-two (52) CS6 PS third party Plugins like Topaz, Nik, and so on all just work in PS CC too. From CS6 PS to PS CC (13.0 to 14.0) is probably the most compatible upgrade of PhotoShop I have installed to date. And of course you can run both CS and CC simultaneously if you have a mind to. I haven't explored further yet - I mainly focused on ACR Filter. But more than a few GUI changes have been made to CC and it looks a little more complimentary to sketch-pads if you use them.

The MySpace copy-cat for artists works the same as any other app that might have a "Share On FaceBook" or an "Upload To Youtube" menu option. It also allows saving (err, synchronizing) user selectable changes to your on-line WIPs as you create and edit your work. Some others like iMovie to youtube or iPhoto to facebook have this too but it's a full replacement of the uploaded content whereas this CC thing looks better suited to learning by WIP critique if you can get people to update their browsers and comment as you go. Of course I already know everything and so won't be using this feature.

In all, yup, this is PS v14.0 (an upgrade to CS6 PS version 13.0) and there's no reason not to get it unless you're politically opposed to the method of payment. If you're a Bridge user this also may be a deterrent - PS CC does not include Bridge and I didn't see a separate download or any mention of a CC version of Bridge.

There are some reasons to get PS CC like if you're at all titillated by the idea of using ACR as a filter in the ways described above - or by whatever

" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">other new features
may exist in version 14.x - it seems like a pretty nice upgrade and I'll know more as my 30 days count down.

EDIT 1:
Nope, I'm wrong. Found it... Adobe Bridge CC installed when I selected the "Close and goto Bridge" option in PS CC.

EDIT 2:
After using the CC Apps for a bit the Application Manager (Cloud ) offered to update PS CC from 14.0 to 14.1.1 which I did after some error solving. So if you have trouble updating the apps there's probably a solution on-line.



Sep 24, 2013 at 12:33 AM
RustyBug
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Okay, so two questions for you Bif:

In your opinion, V14.0 vs. v13.0: What are the core improvements ... and what are the most useful improvements/features @ repackage/bells/whistles

Adobe postured that we "must upgrade" to CS6 (v13.0) to be eligible for future upgrades. If CC is in fact version v14.0 and available, then we should be eligible to upgrade to v14.0 from CS6 (if we desire to) without the perpetual rental program @ CC (if we so chose) ... wouldn't you think



Sep 24, 2013 at 08:51 AM
RustyBug
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


So, I just called Adobe and asked to upgrade to v14.0. As you could imagine, they talked CC. I explained that I didn't want CC, but wanted v14.0. After getting nowhere with the rep, I asked for the supervisor.

The supervisor stated that they don't use version numbers anymore and only refer to it as the latest version in CC. I informed her of the V14.0 as noted by Bif and she still would not refer to it as v14.0 ... as a different version, just CC as latest version. Semantics for certain, but she refused to acknowledge CC as v14.0.

I expressed my interest in v14.0, but no interest in the CC subscription. She said that the only way to get any future versions would be from CC only.

I told her of the "must upgrade" to CS6 that Adobe published to be eligible for future upgrades. She defended that by saying by purchasing CS6 I'm now qualified for the CC. I then told her that CS3, CS4, CS5 are also eligible for upgrade to CC. Her reply was that she has no control over promotions. She then changed her verbiage to we "ENCOURAGE" people to upgrade to CS6 to have the latest tools available.

I reminded her that Adobe had published "must upgrade" to be eligible, and she is now saying it is only an encouragement and others (CS3-CS5) are also eligible for the same upgrade. I told her point blank, that I felt as though Adobe had "tricked me" into upgrading to CS6 in order to be eligible for future upgrades (which are only available in the form of CC now and that was not revealed during the time that the "must upgrade" was being promulgated). She then made an analogy about going to the grocery store to buy fresh fruit.

I told her that I felt that Adobe had tricked me into giving them hundreds of dollars that I hadn't needed to give them (for the purpose of retaining upgrade eligibility) ... except for their indication that I "must upgrade" to CS6. She apologized for me feeling that way and offered me the CC to purchase today.

From that I passed on purchasing CC subscription, but asked how I could evaluate v14.0 vs. 13.0 (which took us back to the semantics of no such thing as v14.0) ... fine, how do I evaluate the CC vs. CS6? She told me that I could try it out for free for 30 days. I pressed her as to if that was "charge & refund" or actually free. She acknowledged that it was in fact "charge & refund". I went on to ask if there was any way to evaluate it without purchasing first, like we've been able to do in the past. She then said that if you go to the site, you can download the "try" vs. "buy" and that it will be a "no charge" download that is valid for 30 days.

Make of it what you will ... just sharing info.



Sep 24, 2013 at 09:49 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


The latest version is 14.1.1
And it includes Bridge and a few other software. But they don't get installed unless you like to have them.

Edited on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM · View previous versions



Sep 24, 2013 at 10:03 AM
RustyBug
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Lars Johnsson wrote:
The latest version is 14.1.1


Thanks ... good to know we can always trust good FM'ers more than corporate suits/salesman.



Sep 24, 2013 at 10:05 AM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


RustyBug wrote:
Okay, so two questions for you Bif:

In your opinion, V14.0 vs. v13.0: What are the core improvements ... and what are the most useful improvements/features @ repackage/bells/whistles


It's too early to tell all in my case cuz I didn't really pour over it yet like I usually do with other (typically simpler) apps. But just considering The Generator and ACR_Filter it's worth the time and effort to upgrade - just for only those two. On the surface in general it looks pretty typical of a full point upgrade from Adobe on their PS product. Whether it's worth the price or not is up to each individual to decide for themselves of course.

I could be way off but I guess the new CC encasement is a two-pronged effort. One prong to combat piracy and one to promote sales of PS and the other packages they offer.

On piracy I'm all for software and network solutions as opposed to the prosecution of individuals. And in this they have succeeded somewhat. Looking up the crack for CC the instructions are long, complicated, and difficult - and I'm not even sure if they work or not (as I'm not about to insult Adobe by doing so). I'm pretty sure they have lots of trouble from the pirate community too. The latest cracks of CS5 and 6 allow the software to both inform Adobe of your illegitimacy and allow the pirate to download and update the applications anyway. The new CC scheme at least freezes the version and like I say the difficulty will deter most of the uncommitted. If I had to guess the number one most pirated app on the planet I guess PhotoShop would be it. That and Windows the OS or MS Office.

On the promotional marketing all is fair as long as it's honest and not misrepresentative or monopolistic in nature. So that's a personal thing. If you hate that, skip the product. If enough people skip it they'll get the message. Although I'm sure most people will actually like it. I kinda do. I'm now aware of about 5 apps from Adobe I didn't previously know existed - and knowing about the existence of a tool is to have a better assessment of one's potential as a working professional.


Adobe postured that we "must upgrade" to CS6 (v13.0) to be eligible for future upgrades. If CC is in fact version v14.0 and available, then we should be eligible to upgrade to v14.0 from CS6 (if we desire to) without the perpetual rental program @ CC (if we so chose) ... wouldn't you think

Yeah, I read your other thread too. I dunno. For me this is the first I'm hearing of it. Previously all Adobe ads, pop-ups, and marketing emails went directly into the trashcan upon arrival - so I never even saw them - thus this is the first I'm hearing of it. If they lied or misrepresented they should be made to atone IMO tho! I'm in communication with an upper management guy and two developers at adobe and all other mail is auto-sorted to the trashcan. I plan to keep that way too.



Sep 24, 2013 at 08:14 PM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


RustyBug wrote:
She told me that I could try it out for free for 30 days. I pressed her as to if that was "charge & refund" or actually free. She acknowledged that it was in fact "charge & refund". I went on to ask if there was any way to evaluate it without purchasing first, like we've been able to do in the past. She then said that if you go to the site, you can download the "try" vs. "buy" and that it will be a "no charge" download that is valid for 30 days.

Make of it what you will
...Show more

It's not a charge & refund thing. Adobe has never done that - that I'm aware of. You DL the trial and all you need to provide is an email address. You don't need a real name, a CC number, electronic money account, or anything like that.

At the end of 30 days (or whatever they set the timer to) the application refuses to load - presenting you only with a purchase option or quit. There's an uninstaller in each of the Application folders and also the App Manager (I think) can uninstall for you.

During the 30 days you get assess to the full un-crippled application with all of it's components able to save and load files just like the purchased version. It's 100% - only for 30 days tho. You even get a my-space copy-cat account with it. Mine is here: http://www.behance.net/Tesselator




Sep 24, 2013 at 09:49 PM
Bifurcator
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


And now just a day or two later another update. PhotoShop 14.1.2 just automatically installed. It didn't use the Creative Cloud app tho - it used the Adobe Application Manager instead - a tool that's been around for quite a long time - I think since CS2 but maybe earlier, I'm not sure.




Sep 26, 2013 at 12:27 PM
skibum5
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p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Lars Johnsson wrote:
This is just something you made up. And it's not true


Adobe customer service said that price is only for the first 12 months and then they raise it to whatever they feel like.



Sep 27, 2013 at 08:39 PM
skibum5
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Lars Johnsson wrote:
Of course the price will change in the future. So would it have done without the CC version also. And every other software will also have price changes. So it's not different from any other software. But the price is much lower than it would have been with the "old normal license" from the start


But why even pay the $120 for the first year at all? That is much higher than $0.
There is no guarantee at all you get any better price after that. Do you think Adobe as they are would do that when they don't have to?



Sep 27, 2013 at 08:43 PM
skibum5
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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · reading is fundemental especially for adobe


Lasse Eriksson wrote:
Not all people use RAW files. And it can be a huge benefit to be able to apply options like clarity and perspective correction to non raw images (a photoshop layer for example). When using the Camera Raw filter


you can already open JPG/TIFF in ACR



Sep 27, 2013 at 08:49 PM
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