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Archive 2013 · Fuji X-A1 announced

  
 
kiddik
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Fuji X-A1 announced


allstarimaging wrote:
Not so sure about this comment above. I think most of the people in this link would disagree:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/1691085@N24/


Yeah but these were all shot with the X100, which has a normal Bayer sensor, right? It's only the new X100s which has the X-Trans.

I personally own the X-Pro1, love the camera but not the sensor.



Sep 18, 2013 at 06:54 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Fuji X-A1 announced


allstarimaging wrote:
Luminosity wrote:
It's not. I photograph nothing but people, and the X-Trans sensor is just as hideous on people as landscapes.


Not so sure about this comment above. I think most of the people in this link would disagree:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/1691085@N24/


That guy has a weird personal vendetta against x-trans, it's a strangely irrational emotional response like X-Trans dumped him one time. He hates it yet loves to participate in any discussion about it.



Sep 18, 2013 at 07:20 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Fuji X-A1 announced


douglasf13 wrote:
The bottom line is that X-Trans is a trade off, and it's a trade off for a bit better high ISO performance that some prefer, while others prefer Bayer, and it would be great if Fuji gave the option to pick the sensor type in all of their X cameras...especially if Bayer is $200 less expensive. It's a pick your poison kind of thing. TheSuede lays it out pretty simply here: link

"X-trans has very good DR in a downsampled image. It has worse DR "per pixel" in a full-size image than any given Exmor of the same generation.

Bayer based
...Show more

This seems about right to me except I've noticed more DR advantages than indicated. However, the Irridient RAW developer has been doing some amazing things with X-Trans files for low ISO detail. I may go do a quick comparison when I have some time vs my OM-D.



Sep 18, 2013 at 07:28 AM
Spyro P.
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Fuji X-A1 announced


FlyPenFly wrote:
That guy has a weird personal vendetta against x-trans, it's a strangely irrational emotional response like X-Trans dumped him one time. He hates it yet loves to participate in any discussion about it.

yeah maybe, problem is, this is not that kind of forum, and I'm not saying we're too civilised for pointless arguments, but we definitely get easily bored by them
so basically is that's how you feel, just ignore him.
My suggestion anyway, for what it's worth.



Sep 18, 2013 at 07:41 AM
luminosity
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Fuji X-A1 announced


FlyPenFly wrote:
That guy has a weird personal vendetta against x-trans, it's a strangely irrational emotional response like X-Trans dumped him one time. He hates it yet loves to participate in any discussion about it.


That I do. I'm always glad to give my opinion on the X-Trans sensor.



Sep 18, 2013 at 09:27 AM
Jman13
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Yes, but your opinion is, well, without much basis in reality based on my experience. Show me examples of photographs of people where the rendering is 'hideous' due to the X-Trans sensor. This is not "find bad pictures of people taken with Fuji cams" this is find pictures where there are genuine faults due to X-trans.

I say this because I've taken about 7,000 photos with X-trans sensors. While occasionally, I've come across situations where there is some watercolor effect due to poor demosaicing, they occur almost exclusively in landscape shots with fine green detail, and even then, they are only visible at 100% and don't show up in prints, especially when processed with something like Capture One. I've yet to see a single shot of people (which make up about half my shots) where there's any sort of negative effect due to X-trans.



Sep 18, 2013 at 09:34 AM
michael49
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Jman13 wrote:
....

I say this because I've taken about 7,000 photos with X-trans sensors. While occasionally, I've come across situations where there is some watercolor effect due to poor demosaicing, they occur almost exclusively in landscape shots with fine green detail, and even then, they are only visible at 100% and don't show up in prints, especially when processed with something like Capture One. I've yet to see a single shot of people (which make up about half my shots) where there's any sort of negative effect due to X-trans.


Agreed, thus far I have no major issues with the X-trans in my X-E1.



Sep 18, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Mescalamba
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Fuji X-A1 announced


X-trans has "advantage" in RAW developers (at least today), you can pick if you want it sharp with bit of artefacts, or slightly smoother (with perhaps bit mushy greens) or watercolors.

There are RAW developers which allow very nice files to be created. Just one cant try one option and said "its rubbish". Truth is there were ways to get something usable almost right after X-trans was made, just most people didnt care enough (as its easier to bash Fuji and Adobe than trying to find some way).

I tried almost every RAW developer on market (or free ones) in order to find whats best for my S5 Pro. I cant say its 100% success, but its a helluva lot better than just whine how bad it is (and yes I found some decent options).



Sep 18, 2013 at 12:25 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Mescalamba wrote:
X-trans has "advantage" in RAW developers (at least today), you can pick if you want it sharp with bit of artefacts, or slightly smoother (with perhaps bit mushy greens) or watercolors.

There are RAW developers which allow very nice files to be created. Just one cant try one option and said "its rubbish". Truth is there were ways to get something usable almost right after X-trans was made, just most people didnt care enough (as its easier to bash Fuji and Adobe than trying to find some way).

I tried almost every RAW developer on market (or free ones) in order to
...Show more

I have two thoughts on this. My first thought is that I did personally try several raw converters just a couple of months ago with my X-trans files, and, while Adobe is the worst, IMO, they all have trade offs. None of them gave me results that I'd prefer over a regular Bayer sensor.

My second thought is that, after trying several converters, (and even migrating my whole catalogue from LR to another converter,) I realized that, for better or worse, I am married to the LR workflow. I had already determined years ago that other raw converters, like RPP, are a bit better at converting regular Bayer files than LR, but the LR workflow, highlight recovery, and a few other things led me to stick with a LR-only setup, so I'm just not interested in switching, at this point. Maybe if X-trans was giving me files that I was really excited about in another converter, I'd consider the switch again, but not for what X-trans is currently producing with any of the converters on the market.



Sep 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Mescalamba wrote:
I tried almost every RAW developer on market (or free ones) in order to find whats best for my S5 Pro. I cant say its 100% success, but its a helluva lot better than just whine how bad it is (and yes I found some decent options).


Until a user brings issues (raw issues for instance) to the forefront, nothing will change. It's a huge part of the process of getting manufacturers and software developers to first know of an issue and then, hopefully, to improve their product.

Ironically, Adobe faced a similar situation with Adobe Camera Raw processing and Fuji S2/ Super CCD over ten (10!) years ago. Only until I and others demonstrated the issue and got the attention of adobe did anything change for the better with Adobe raw processing of Fuji Super CCD raws. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and, in the end, ALL users benefit.



Sep 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM
itai195
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Jman13 wrote:
Yes, but your opinion is, well, without much basis in reality based on my experience. Show me examples of photographs of people where the rendering is 'hideous' due to the X-Trans sensor. This is not "find bad pictures of people taken with Fuji cams" this is find pictures where there are genuine faults due to X-trans.

I say this because I've taken about 7,000 photos with X-trans sensors. While occasionally, I've come across situations where there is some watercolor effect due to poor demosaicing, they occur almost exclusively in landscape shots with fine green detail, and even then, they
...Show more

I agree. I think xtrans is basically no net gain for me. Maybe slightly better DR and noise performance than a bayer sensor, but a more complex RAW workflow and on rare occasions some artifacts. I'd certainly rather have $200 in my pocket and stick with a bayer sensor, all else equal, but xtrans won't keep me away from a line of cameras and lenses that I really enjoy.

That said, this is the internet, and making a big deal out of infinitesimally minor issues that most people will never care about is the name of the game. Obviously you can never use Fuji cameras to photograph landscapes or people, unless you have no taste. I can barely stand to look at the photographs of my family that I've taken with my X-E1, they're just too horrible for words. Everyone I show those photos to immediately runs out of the room screaming.



Sep 18, 2013 at 01:32 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Jman13 wrote:
Yes, but your opinion is, well, without much basis in reality based on my experience. Show me examples of photographs of people where the rendering is 'hideous' due to the X-Trans sensor. This is not "find bad pictures of people taken with Fuji cams" this is find pictures where there are genuine faults due to X-trans.

I say this because I've taken about 7,000 photos with X-trans sensors. While occasionally, I've come across situations where there is some watercolor effect due to poor demosaicing, they occur almost exclusively in landscape shots with fine green detail, and even then, they
...Show more

i mostly agree, the x100s can take fantastic portraits. it does sometime appear that it has more local contrast in oof areas than the x100 did, but i've never seen a direct comparison done. i'd love to see comparisons now of the same shot with the same lens on x-trans versus bayer.




Sep 18, 2013 at 01:57 PM
Mescalamba
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Until a user brings issues (raw issues for instance) to the forefront, nothing will change. It's a huge part of the process of getting manufacturers and software developers to first know of an issue and then, hopefully, to improve their product.

Ironically, Adobe faced a similar situation with Adobe Camera Raw processing and Fuji S2/ Super CCD over ten (10!) years ago. Only until I and others demonstrated the issue and got the attention of adobe did anything change for the better with Adobe raw processing of Fuji Super CCD raws. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and, in
...Show more

I agree with you. Was meant more about that guy which simply say "its output is garbage". Its good that users complained and Adobe and others tried to fix it. My point was that if you dont like output with lets say ACR/LR today, then instead of thrashing output as bad simply go and try something else..

Btw. 10 years ago Adobe was rather smaller today. If I wanted today improvement of color profiles and demosaicing for S5 Pro, all I can do is "want".



Sep 18, 2013 at 04:22 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Mescalamba wrote:
Btw. 10 years ago Adobe was rather smaller today. If I wanted today improvement of color profiles and demosaicing for S5 Pro, all I can do is "want".


Yeah, I'm sure that's true. Back then, Thomas Knoll actually participated a little in the discussions.



Sep 18, 2013 at 04:32 PM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Fuji X-A1 announced


kiddik wrote:
I personally own the X-Pro1, love the camera but not the sensor.


I'm having the opposite experience with the X-E1. I picked it up in a trade in the hopes that it would perform better than the NEX-6 at high ISOs. I don't really care about the foliage issues (the 7 and a99 aren't going anywhere), and I figured I'd get over my ergonomic complaints over the top plate shutter release and shutter-speed wheel. I didn't realize how laggy the EVF would get in what the NEXs see as good light. It makes it very difficult to focus on anything that moves at all. And the colors OOC were okay.

Then I started converting them to B&W, and I was impressed with how easy it was to get really good results. With both the 6 and 7, I end up making color adjustments to get the deep blacks and whites where I want them. The X-E1 files, it's a couple of clicks and done. Nice clean files at 1600 and 3200, too. So I'm going to shoot it out with the 6 and go from there. I don't know, though. That EVF is a huge drawback.

Not much to look at, but I got my M and FD adapters today, so I had to play a little around being chained to my laptop.





Canon nFD 35/2 wide open







Summicron 40/2 wide open







Summicron 40/2 wide open




Sep 18, 2013 at 11:16 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Fuji X-A1 announced


when did you pickup a 40 cron?




Sep 19, 2013 at 01:04 AM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Fuji X-A1 announced


Won the auction on Sunday and it arrived today. I'm hedging my bets just in case there's anything wrong with the 35 on the FF (or warding off bad juju in regards to the 35 on a FF NEX, if you hear my buddy tell it).


Sep 19, 2013 at 01:10 AM
naturephoto1
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Fuji X-A1 announced


freaklikeme wrote:
Won the auction on Sunday and it arrived today. I'm hedging my bets just in case there's anything wrong with the 35 on the FF (or warding off bad juju in regards to the 35 on a FF NEX, if you hear my buddy tell it).


The Kipon adapter (for the Leica M to Fuji X), 40.5mm B&W UV filter, and the 40.5mm lens hood have already arrived and I am waiting for the arrival from Germany of my Minolta CLE MC M-Rokkor 40mm f2 lens. I purchased the M-Rokkor lens which is the Minolta MC equivalent to your newly arrived Leica C 40mm f2 Summicron lens for the FF NEX and in anticipation of wider Leica M lenses to work with that camera. I wanted to make sure that at least 1 M mount lens would work and it would replace both a 50mm and 35mm (at least for now). In the mean time, I will use it on my Fujifilm X-E1.

Rich



Sep 19, 2013 at 04:35 AM
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