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Archive 2013 · 1st flashed HS Football
  
 
BillP57
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1st flashed HS Football


This past weekend was my first attempt to flash HS Football. Flash mounted on monopod about 20" below camera and lowered to about 2' trying to eliminate red-eye. I was unable to get the camera to work in HSS and had to try regular sync. I guess my settings were too close to ambient as I did get ghosting. C&C appreciated.

Bill





1

  Canon EOS 7D    EF300mm f/2.8L USM lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    0.0 EV  







2

  Canon EOS 7D    EF300mm f/2.8L USM lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    0.0 EV  







3

  Canon EOS 7D    EF300mm f/2.8L USM lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    0.0 EV  







4 QB lost grip as he was about to pass.

  Canon EOS 7D    EF300mm f/2.8L USM lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Sep 10, 2013 at 03:46 AM
jspytek
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1st flashed HS Football


Working on flash with a wireless trigger myself. We should trade notes to get up to speed faster.

First note, I just figured out how to turn off the auto-sleep function on my flash! That will help as I kept missing some keepers cause the flash wasn't flash'n!!!



Sep 10, 2013 at 03:55 AM
Ralph Thompson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1st flashed HS Football


Lower the ISO, that'll eliminate the ghosting. I shoot ISO 800-1,000 when flashing w/o HSS. You're really close.... What flash are you using and how are you triggering it?


Sep 11, 2013 at 04:07 AM
BillP57
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1st flashed HS Football


Thanks Ralph, I'm using a Canon 580 EX II flash with a hotshoe cord. I had no way to weatherproof the rig and had to go to ambient when it started to rain. I just got PWs and may try them this week. I'd like to try HSS but I was late getting to the game and diidn't have time to troubleshoot the problem getting it to work.

Bill



Sep 11, 2013 at 12:37 PM
BillP57
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1st flashed HS Football


jspytek, so far I don't have any notes to give, as I didn't notice the ghosting till reviewing the images on a bigger screen after the game. I think the lower IS Ralph suggested will give me more separation from ambient and solve the issue.

Bill



Sep 11, 2013 at 12:43 PM
Ralph Thompson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1st flashed HS Football


Bill, The best rain cover for a speedlight on the monopod is a zip lock & a couple rubber bands. Use a rain cover of your choice for your camera & lens. Pull the bag over the flash and pull it tight against the flash head and rubber band it in place. Pull the rest of the baggie down over the flash body, over the connections, zip it as tight as it'll go and rubber band the rest.... Really high tech plus it has that working photographer's touch to it!

The Canon off camera cord has a weather seal on it.... I never trust them completely therefore, I use the zip lock sandwich bag. I've never (knock on wood now) had a flash get wet....



Sep 11, 2013 at 06:34 PM
acoll123
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1st flashed HS Football


There are some other threads here about this that I looked at before I started using flash.

I think you should try HSS, it's what I use now and I have been happy with it. I have also tried manual flash control instead of ETTL. Use 1/4 power and adjust your iso and shutter speed - allows for more flashed shots in series. With ETTL I am lucky to get two flashed shots in a row with a quantum battery. When you are at 1/4 power, I can get up to 3.
Also, you need to be at least 2 stops below ambient to avoid motion blur with a flash (in my experience).
Andy



Sep 11, 2013 at 07:02 PM
Ralph Thompson
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1st flashed HS Football


IMHO manual power would not work well. It would if your distance to your subject is fixed. But since this is sports, and the subject distance varies a great deal, ETTL is the best solution. since you paid a lot of $$ for this feature in your gear, use it!



Sep 11, 2013 at 09:44 PM
BillP57
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1st flashed HS Football


Ralph, I usually have zip lock bags in my case, but was afraid water wou8ld run down the cord and into the flash. With the PWs Zip Locks should work fine.

Andy, I wanted to use HSS, but I couldn't figure out why the camera wasn't recognizing the flash was set to HSS. I ran out of time and had to settle for standard flash sync. Currently I'm shooting single shot and working on my timing, so flash power only effects the number of flashes per battery.

Bill



Sep 12, 2013 at 12:06 AM
ScatterCrSport
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1st flashed HS Football


If you set any Flash Function Settings or Custom Function Settings in the flash, those settings will over ride any flash settings that you try to make in-camera.

Find the camera External Speedlite Control menu (the flash needs to be in the hotshoe and turned on)... open the Flash Function Settings sub-menu and set as follows:
Flash Mode --> E-TTL II
Shutter Sync. --> High-Speed
FEB --> you don't need this for sports
FEC --> you're probably not ready for this... yet
E-TTL II --> Evaluative
Zoom --> Auto
Wireless Set. --> I don't have wireless, do you?
Flash Firing --> Enable

What you're seeing in your photos is motion blur caused by the slow 1/250th x-sync flash speed associated with the focal plane shutter. To freeze field sports, 1/640th is generally the slowest shutter speed that you can use. Look at the first image that you posted. The players moving across the screen are blurrier than the player coming towards the camera.

My guess is that your Exposure Triangle will look something like this:
1/640
f/4.0
ISO 4000-6400

I use a Better Beamer to extend the reach of my flash and an external power pack to speed up the recycle time. HSS eats up power.



Sep 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM
 

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BillP57
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1st flashed HS Football


Thanks for the settings info ScatterCrSport. I did get to try a few shots of HSS in the 3 minutes of play before the game was called due to lightning last night. The results were very poor, to say the least. When you use HSS are you exposing for ambient and just letting the flash do fill?

Bill



Sep 13, 2013 at 12:59 PM
ScatterCrSport
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1st flashed HS Football


Yes, I meter the grass to expose for ambient... if the grass looks good, everything else should look good too. Well, a little green background PP for the pulsing lights. Lately, -1.33 FEC has been working rather well for fill.

There's a link to my flickr account just below my avatar with some negative FEC football images from last year. I leave the exif attached to most of my images.



Sep 13, 2013 at 01:27 PM
sleepy717
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1st flashed HS Football


Do you guys get any flack for using a flash. I have always been told that's a taboo because it distracts the players. I want to try it, but haven't. Also, any suggestions for a monopod flash bracket?


Sep 17, 2013 at 12:26 AM
jspytek
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1st flashed HS Football


I just started using flash. I had my kids, who are working with me but happened to be in the stands last time, my wife, also in the stands and my editor on the sideline. I flashed a bit during the game. Afterwards asked if the flash drew too much attention to myself. They all responded, uhhhh I didn't even notice. I do worry when I get a good shot and the player's face is sharp but their eyes are closed. But, I get so many shots during the day when a kid is about to take a hit most of them close their eyes instinctively that I don't think my flash is causing it. Besides if you are 10-20 yards or more down field when you flash I don't think it will be a big deal. I have been asking the refs before the game, just to confirm it's ok. And everyone of them has said just as long as you are not behind the field goal when they are kicking you should be fine.

GL



Sep 17, 2013 at 12:37 PM
DennisC
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1st flashed HS Football


ScatterCrSport wrote:
Yes, I meter the grass to expose for ambient... if the grass looks good, everything else should look good too...........



Interesting. I now recall that, what's his name, Peterson, in his book Understanding Exposure, spoke about metering off the grass.

Do you take new readings off the grass as you move around the field and change positions?

Thanks!



Sep 17, 2013 at 01:29 PM
DennisC
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1st flashed HS Football


ScatterCrSport wrote:
Yes, I meter the grass to expose for ambient... if the grass looks good, everything else should look good too...........



Interesting. I now recall that, what's his name, Peterson, in his book Understanding Exposure, spoke about metering off the grass.

Do you take new readings off the grass as you move around the field and change positions?

Thanks!



Sep 17, 2013 at 01:29 PM
finster1018
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1st flashed HS Football


just curious, anyone using hypersync with TT1 and TT5 with a 580 EX II rather than high speed sync?


Sep 17, 2013 at 04:50 PM
NathanHamler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1st flashed HS Football


finster1018 wrote:
just curious, anyone using hypersync with TT1 and TT5 with a 580 EX II rather than high speed sync?


HYPERSYNC is more designed for monolights and other studio heads with SLOW flash durations...NOT for speedlights where the slowest flash duration is 1/1000s...you gotta have like a 1/500s flash duration or less (slower) to get good results with hypersync...and even then, it takes work to get things dialed in correctly...



Sep 18, 2013 at 04:04 AM
finster1018
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1st flashed HS Football


NathanHamler wrote:
HYPERSYNC is more designed for monolights and other studio heads with SLOW flash durations...NOT for speedlights where the slowest flash duration is 1/1000s...you gotta have like a 1/500s flash duration or less (slower) to get good results with hypersync...and even then, it takes work to get things dialed in correctly...


really? Watch this guy in the video is hypersynching with speedlights and doesn't use the TT5/TT1 combo. He uses a optical slave to trigger the speedlights meanwhile he can shoot at 1/8000 sec and no banding.

youtube video



Sep 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM
NathanHamler
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1st flashed HS Football


finster1018 wrote:
really? Watch this guy in the video is hypersynching with speedlights and doesn't use the TT5/TT1 combo. He uses a optical slave to trigger the speedlights meanwhile he can shoot at 1/8000 sec and no banding.

youtube video


Ok, well the question i answered was about the PW TT5/TT1....I watched the video, and tried it myself, and i couldn't duplicate his results on a Nikon D3 and an Alien Bee 800....I have the same optical slave he's using.....at speeds from probably 1/500 up to 1/2000 the flash exposure is VERY inconsistent across the entire frame...like 3 or 4 stops from one side to the other....tried every combination of flash duration with the alien bee...it's just not good...Trying to use a speedlight was just a ton of banding.....

I have a feeling that what you're seeing in the vid, is a situation where it works with that SPECIFIC set of equipment.....it's not something that can be replicated across any system in the world of photography.....

Maybe the shutter lag on a 7D is slow enough that it happens to time correctly....

maybe his particular studio light setup has the PERFECT flash duration and t.1 and t.5 times to be able to accomplish this....

maybe the canon flashes are still putting out a pre flash when set to high speed sync in manual mode....the nikon's dont, so when they flash, they only flash once....i tried in ttl mode, and even the pre-flashes of the sb-600 in TTL mode wouldn't trigger the alien bee (or other sb-600) in time to get a good exposure...

So, i think what you're seeing is something that works, but it's like an anomaly due to a certain set of equipment working together....Just like the D70....it had a hybrid shutter that if you happened to use a PW, or an off camera flash chord, it would work up to a crazy shutter speed, b/c there was no 2nd curtain to move across the frame at those speeds, and the camera didn't think there was a flash attached...



Sep 18, 2013 at 01:55 PM
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