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Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right...
  
 
pkyryluk
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p.1 #1 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


In an effort to gain knowledge and share information...
A little over a year ago I joined this site... by registering and following all the guidelines.
I have many friends on this site and enjoy the many articles posted and feel that I have learned a lot about photography from many of you fine folks...

However, today I find myself very disappointed !
Looking at the Buy and Sell forum, I purchased an annual membership to be able to buy and sell on this site...
I found the item that I was interested in purchasing and proceeded to send a PM to the seller.

I immediately received a reply " I Do Not Sell to Fresh FM'rs" Needless to say...WOW What a response!?!!
How do we become a seasoned and not a "fresh" FM'r with that kind of approach to new folks?

There should be an explanation by Fred Miranda that once you pay up your money ...Which was taken without any requirement to be seasoned for a period of time before being able to purchase on this prestigious site..That there is a qualifying time...I think it's unfair, unfriendly... and flat out I feel that I was taken for my money!!!

Thank you for allowing me to rant...Just feel ripped off...
Pete K
Official "Fresh FM'r"




Sep 09, 2013 at 06:23 PM
Sarsfield
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p.1 #2 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Fred just provides the vehicle for trade, he does not dictate as to whether a buyer or seller has to follow any stringent rules. He provides guidelines which you are advised to follow but as to a seller refusing to sell? Sorry, that's the seller's choice, not Fred's or yours. If you are really interested in something, you can further insure a seller by providing as much information about yourself as possible which helps to create trust. Coming hear to kvetch does you no good at all although I understand your frustration.


Sep 09, 2013 at 06:30 PM
pkyryluk
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p.1 #3 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Thank you for your quick reply regarding my "kvetching"...
But could you justify the annual fee being charged for such a "vehicle for trade" ?

*here*



Sep 09, 2013 at 06:39 PM
mitesh
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p.1 #4 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


pkyryluk wrote:
There should be an explanation by Fred Miranda that once you pay up your money ...Which was taken without any requirement to be seasoned for a period of time before being able to purchase on this prestigious site..That there is a qualifying time...I think it's unfair, unfriendly... and flat out I feel that I was taken for my money!!!


Sorry for your experience, but blaming Fred and saying that you were "taken" is just projecting your frustration inappropriately. First, if you wanted to buy an item, you could have messaged the seller before signing up for an upload/sell membership. According to Forum rules, you can always buy without a membership. The cost of the membership isn't just for B/S, it also includes hosting for uploaded photos, and memberships pay for that expense.

Secondly, the User Agreement states that buy and sell transactions occurring on this site are directly between buyer and seller, and that Fredmiranda.com doesn't act as an intermediary. So, if a particular seller doesn't want to transact with a new member, that is his/her call and there is nothing against that in the Forum rules. I hope you can understand that people may be wary of dealing with someone who is a relative unknown when we are talking about equipment worth thousands of dollars.

As to your question of how to become established, it has been discussed in many threads. Everyone started out with zero feedbacks. In years past, it was easier to get started because the general level of trust was a bit higher. After some scams, people are understandably more alert and wary now. Basically, try to participate in areas of the site other than just B/S. You can also build up feedback by transacting in lower cost items, or by getting an established member who you may know offline to vouch for you. It has also been suggested that, when selling, newer members can ship before payment, or, when buying, allow a seller to clear funds before shipping. If you want more suggestions, you can do a forum search, or, I'm sure others will add their opinions in due course.

I understand you might feel frustrated, but a vent/outburst likely won't win you any points. I'm sure you'll be able to find people willing to do business with you.

Edited on Sep 09, 2013 at 06:51 PM · View previous versions



Sep 09, 2013 at 06:44 PM
BruceF99
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p.1 #5 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


You may have registered here over a year ago, but you only have 7 posts (including the 2 in this thread). That post count puts up a red flag. One also has to wonder how you have "many friends" on this site without posting. Many sellers and buyers are weary of being scammed by 'fresh FMers' which seems to be happening more frequently. If you want to be 'seasoned', it's pretty simple... participate in the forums.


Sep 09, 2013 at 06:46 PM
CGrindahl
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p.1 #6 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


I'd also note something that apparently you missed when you arrived. You are not required to obtain and Upload and Sell subscription if all you wish to do at the moment is BUY something. You only need the subscription if you wish to SELL something or if you wish to use FM to host your images. You can BUY to your hearts content without a subscription.

That said, I'll second Bruce's comment, though Bruce who has been a member for almost five years is not much for participating on this website either. There are myriad opportunities to become part of this community and doing so will doubtless be recognized when it comes time to buy something. At the moment we're experiencing a rash of scams being run through the Buy and Sell forum, so folks are being especially careful. There is a bias toward dealing with folks who've established a reputation on the website and in prior transactions. The person you encountered was being especially careful because realistically, it is the seller who has control over the transaction since they can specify payment form and await payment before sending the item. It is the buyer at risk who will want to evaluate the past performance of the seller.

So if this site really has something of value to you, get involved. If all you're looking for is a good deal as a buyer or seller, be prepared for careful vetting and possible rejection.



Sep 09, 2013 at 07:45 PM
DanBrown
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p.1 #7 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


CGrindahl wrote:
You can BUY to your hearts content without a subscription.


+1 This fact is clearly stated in the Buy and Sell forum guidelines.

When buying and selling, each individual has their own perception of the risk involved. Note that this is a subjective assessment. Some "anchor" their perception. This is when someone uses a single piece of evidence, in your case, the time of membership or number of posts, to make further judgements. You'll never escape this process; you just have to recognize that it occurs and live with it.




Sep 09, 2013 at 09:40 PM
mogud
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p.1 #8 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


As others have mentioned, a relatively high post count gives sellers some assurances that you are here for the long term. In addition, make purchases of small dollar items at first to establish yourself. Don't expect sellers to mail a $2500 lens to you if you have no histury.

Establishing yourself here takes time and patience. BTW, welcome to FM.



Sep 10, 2013 at 10:46 PM
John P Mulgrew
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p.1 #9 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


I think the seller is probably wrong since you are paying the yearly fee for upload and sell, that to me says you belong here. If you use paypal and everything are verified then I don't see where the problem is. Now if you were selling with only 8 posts then I probably would not buy from you but get your posts to over 100 then I might.


Sep 12, 2013 at 11:18 AM
rainshadow
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p.1 #10 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Wow, I understand your frustration, sounds like you got a very cautious seller which of course they have a right to be. I actually purchased a semi-high dollar lens with zero posts and no upload & sell membership a few months back, although I did end up talking with the seller over the phone before he shipped. Reading your post makes me realize I was fortunate to deal with a reasonable member that actually wanted to sell his advertised gear and took the time to call and talk to me about it. It's really too bad scammers are making the buy/sell process here more difficult for those of us that are "fresh FM'ers". I have some gear I will be selling in the future but now I'm not sure about paying for the upload & sell membership because it seems my low posts/feedback could be a bigger issue than I thought.


Sep 12, 2013 at 11:05 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



anthonysemone
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p.1 #11 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


So, grab hold of a Board here that reflects your photographic interests; join in on the discussion; post up a few of your pics; fill out your profile; link up to your other sites, e.g., Flickr, Facebook, 500px

It's not rocket science here to getting yourself known so that when you post up something for buying or selling, members can say "hey, I know this guy" If on the other hand all you are about is Buying and or Selling here, well.... God said "You makes your choices and you takes your consequences."



Sep 12, 2013 at 11:19 PM
lhryshko
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p.1 #12 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


I have the distinct honor of being rejected by Fred himself on my first attempt to purchase a lens here. Offered full asking price, multiple shipping options, yada yada. Since then, almost everything I have came from here. Stick around, tough it out, it's worth it in the end.


Sep 13, 2013 at 02:31 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #13 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


I'll bet 20% of my transactions were with "fresh" FM'ers, but they participated in
fora besides the B&S...and definitely exceeded your 9 posts in 14 months here.
If you wish to be taken otherwise update your profile, post some pics SOMEWHERE
and try to fit in. Whining solves nothing and probably turns off many members from
even considering dealing with you. Just sayin'...



Sep 16, 2013 at 12:08 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #14 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Personally, I don't mind trading with a "fresh" member. Of course, I need to verify identify somehow first. But it doesn't mean you can force everybody to think the same, especially when you know that there are scammers to come by as a fresh member.


Sep 17, 2013 at 01:53 AM
Sunny Sra
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p.1 #15 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Its the sellers loss. Its not Fred's fault. Its that simple. Find the item from another seller. If you're in a rush, buy it retail...


Sep 17, 2013 at 03:52 AM
Jammyn
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p.1 #16 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


pkyryluk wrote:
However, today I find myself very disappointed !
Looking at the Buy and Sell forum, I purchased an annual membership to be able to buy and sell on this site...
I found the item that I was interested in purchasing and proceeded to send a PM to the seller.

I immediately received a reply " I Do Not Sell to Fresh FM'rs" Needless to say...WOW What a response!?!!
How do we become a seasoned and not a "fresh" FM'r with that kind of approach to new folks?

Pete K
Official "Fresh FM'r"



I am sorry that has been your experience. I guess that I was lucky because I was able to purchase the first item that I wanted; I paid via PP, but ended up meeting to complete the sale as we are both Floridians and it was a friendly and smooth transaction.

I hope that your experience was the exception, and not the norm, as I don't consider myself "seasoned" but have not had an issue purchasing an item with a relatively small amount of feedback.



Sep 17, 2013 at 11:23 PM
halie
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p.1 #17 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


The reality is that several years ago it was much easier for people to start from the begining because the overall level of honesty and integrity on the buy and sell forum was far higher than it is now. If people are less trusting these days, ask yourself why.


Sep 18, 2013 at 04:36 AM
PerlaD300
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p.1 #18 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


Pete, Just wanted to share my experience as a first time Buyer on FM. I have been a frequent visitor to FM but posted occasionally. I was looking for a Ball Head for a new tripod and I knew exactly where to get it (while I had choices to look on BH/Adorama/Ebay used sections) which is FM and reason for this is I trust this site.

When I found the Ball head I wanted, I was the first time BUYER on this site. I contacted the Seller via PM and asked him couple of questions and agreed on price. However, when I went to Paypal, my account was disabled due to inactivity for a while. I immediately mentioned to the Seller about this and tried to rectify the situation. After 3 days from our agreement, I paid the Seller, and honestly, he was very understanding. While I could have been in your shoes and could have received 'sorry sold the item' or 'sorry i can't sell it to you', the only reason the transaction happened is I was forth coming and communicated to the Seller assuring I am not trying to pull a scam on him. Eventually things worked out.

I am sure this is a glitch, and you will find FM a great great place to hang out, learn, share and of course BUY and SELL. As Ops mentioned above, give it a chance again and try to be bit more active. You do not need to pay FM for BUYING but only for SELLING (which I am actually considering paying that fee as I am planning to sell few lenses).

Happy purchasing!



Sep 18, 2013 at 02:06 PM
kzoockof
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p.1 #19 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...


I honestly feel for you and also understand your frustration.

I was a prior "member" under a different username (ckoffend) with transactions, postings, etc. in 2009 and 2010. I have been trying for months to get my account re-established, but to no avail. Went through the process of providing my e-mail address for receiving my "password", but never received any e-mails. Even used direct messaging to Fred via Facebook, same issues.

I love this site, I love the buy/sell. I love the educational aspects. It is a free site (ex the added upgraded, which I have purchased) and am grateful for this site. But in the very next sentence, I do understand your frustration.

For me, when I get around to buying something, I am going to have to try to convince the seller to go through the steps of checking my feedback under a different (but similar) username by specifically searching the "old site" 2009, 2010 and maybe 2011. Additionally, I can provide my usernames for eBay (they could contact me/you via eBay to confirm, while also checking my feedback/history there), or in my case ask them to go to Audiogon.com to check my high-value transactional feedback there.

I think with most sellers you will find that they are a bit more forgiving with new members who are buying something, versus selling something. However, there are steps you should be willing to take:

#1: buy your item from a high feedback seller
#2: provide your home and cell phone number (they can verify your home number on-line)
#3: provide your work address, phone number, website - they can use the website to reconfirm the phone number and call you at work (to confirm you are a real person)
#4: Either send them a check (encourage them to hold shipping until it clears) or pay via Paypal Gift (which leaves the buyer much less protection, but the seller complete protection).



Sep 18, 2013 at 03:11 PM
GC5
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p.1 #20 · Frustrated "Fresh FM'r"... Not very happy right now...



I've sold to new members. Good communication and a willingness to provide sufficient identifying information goes a long way.



Sep 18, 2013 at 09:23 PM
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