Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4              8       9       end
  

Archive 2013 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come wi...
  
 
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


artur5 wrote:
The question is if they took care of making a sensor more tolerant to acute angles of incidence in order to allow relatively compact optic designs. It might be so, hopefully. That Sonnar FE 35/2.8 has an overall size more like a Biogon than to a Distagon, but who knows ?.


it may be telling though that they have labeled it a sonnar rather than a biogon.




Sep 06, 2013 at 10:12 PM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


sebboh wrote:
it may be telling though that they have labeled it a sonnar rather than a biogon.



I'm imagining that it'll be a "Sonnar" similar to the 24/1.8 and RX1, which kind of looks like a Sonnar design in reverse, with only a few elements in front of the aperture, and a more telecentric rear with a big, rear correcting element (same with the Sigma 30/2.8, too.) If theSuede is correct about the problems to overcome with native lenses, it makes sense that the new Sonnar 35mm is only f2.8.



Sep 06, 2013 at 10:23 PM
artur5
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


Anyway, the combo FF-NEX + Sonnar FE 35/2.8 has only 54.5 mm from the focal plane to the lens front, while the combo M camera + Biogon ZM 35/2.8 is 58.7mm.


Sep 06, 2013 at 11:29 PM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


artur5 wrote:
Anyway, the combo FF-NEX + Sonnar FE 35/2.8 has only 54.5 mm from the focal plane to the lens front, while the combo M camera + Biogon ZM 35/2.8 is 58.7mm.


Yep. It seems f2.8 designs will be ok for 35mm. It'll be interesting to see how large the rumored 55/1.8 is.



Sep 06, 2013 at 11:35 PM
Nanh
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


douglasf13 wrote:
Yep. It seems f2.8 designs will be ok for 35mm. It'll be interesting to see how large the rumored 55/1.8 is.


Since it's so small, it's entirely possible that the f2.8 Sonnar has a more symmetric design. Old symmetric lenses are rarely if ever faster than 2.8. The faster leica wides all have a more retrofocal design and are bigger. The throat size is only a limitation for fast and retrofocal designs(requiring large rear elements), i.e. it might not be possible to design a fullframe 50 1.2 for the E-mount. Symmetric wide lenses have a high incident angle not due to the small throat size, but by definition. Whether Sony can make small wide lenses has everything to do with whether the sensor can cope with hight incident angles and not much to do with the mount.



Sep 07, 2013 at 12:28 AM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


Nanh wrote:
Since it's so small, it's entirely possible that the f2.8 Sonnar has a more symmetric design. Old symmetric lenses are rarely if ever faster than 2.8. The faster leica wides all have a more retrofocal design and are bigger. The throat size is only a limitation for fast and retrofocal designs(requiring large rear elements), i.e. it might not be possible to design a fullframe 50 1.2 for the E-mount. Symmetric wide lenses have a high incident angle not due to the small throat size, but by definition. Whether Sony can make small wide lenses has everything to do with whether
...Show more

Yeah, I'm assuming that Sony hasn't made any giant steps towards improving the sensor coping with high incident angles, and a 35/2.8 Sonnar doesn't change my view on that, because, as I mentioned, it is probably in the same design vein as the 24/1.8 and RX1 Sonnar.



Sep 07, 2013 at 01:04 AM
Tariq Gibran
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


I also suspect Sony/ Zeiss would have almost certainly named the 35/2.8 with "Biogon" rather than "Sonnar" if it were a pseudo symmetrical design.


Sep 07, 2013 at 01:35 AM
LightShow
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


artur5 wrote:
Anyway, the combo FF-NEX + Sonnar FE 35/2.8 has only 54.5 mm from the focal plane to the lens front, while the combo M camera + Biogon ZM 35/2.8 is 58.7mm.

douglasf13 wrote:
Yep. It seems f2.8 designs will be ok for 35mm. It'll be interesting to see how large the rumored 55/1.8 is.

Nanh wrote:
Since it's so small, it's entirely possible that the f2.8 Sonnar has a more symmetric design. Old symmetric lenses are rarely if ever faster than 2.8. The faster leica wides all have a more retrofocal design and are bigger. The throat size is only a limitation for fast and retrofocal designs(requiring large rear elements), i.e. it might not be possible to design a fullframe 50 1.2 for the E-mount. Symmetric wide lenses have a high incident angle not due to the small throat size, but by definition. Whether Sony can make small wide lenses has everything to do with whether
...Show more
douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, I'm assuming that Sony hasn't made any giant steps towards improving the sensor coping with high incident angles, and a 35/2.8 Sonnar doesn't change my view on that, because, as I mentioned, it is probably in the same design vein as the 24/1.8 and RX1 Sonnar.

I'm not too sure about that, the E24Z is a 7/8(group/elements) design while the FE35 is a 5/7



Sep 07, 2013 at 03:51 AM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


LightShow wrote:
I'm not too sure about that, the E24Z is a 7/8(group/elements) design while the FE35 is a 5/7


I didn't mean the same design. I meant in the same vein as the design of the 24/1.8, RX1, Sigma 30/2.8 and others, with an exit pupil closer to the front of the lens and more telecentric rear corrective elements. I can almost guarantee that the lens arrangement won't look like the Biogon 35/2.8.



Sep 07, 2013 at 04:17 AM
theSuede
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


Nanh wrote:
Since it's so small, it's entirely possible that the f2.8 Sonnar has a more symmetric design. Old symmetric lenses are rarely if ever faster than 2.8. The faster leica wides all have a more retrofocal design and are bigger. The throat size is only a limitation for fast and retrofocal designs(requiring large rear elements), i.e. it might not be possible to design a fullframe 50 1.2 for the E-mount. Symmetric wide lenses have a high incident angle not due to the small throat size, but by definition. Whether Sony can make small wide lenses has everything to do with whether
...Show more

The problem with a FF NEX isn't normal lenses at F2.8 or F2.0. It's the large aperture lenses that get hard to plan correctly (relaxed optics).

Looking at this image, you see F1.4 and F2.8 exit pupils at different distances. And I haven't even plotted the CORNER of the sensor, this is the side edge of the sensor (18mm image height, corner is sqrt(18^2+12^2)= 21.6mm).



You can of course accept some mechanical vignette, and get clipped OOF highlights and darker corners, but it's in no way optimal.



Sep 07, 2013 at 01:32 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



kewlcanon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


"A dozen (yes a dozen!) of European stores just sent me messages to tell me that they got an important invitation from Sony. These are big and very small store owners. They told me that Sony invited them for a very important meeting where Sony will show them something “BIG” in the digital camera market (that’s the word used by Sony). Every store got different meeting days. But these are all days in the week between the 14 and 18 of October.

I am going to share one of the mail I received from a small store owner (Thanks to the anonymous sender). This is what he wrote:

“I work at a small camera retail store in a small country in Europe. Yesterday we got mail from Sony. There will be a meeting on October 18.
And the fact, that we get an invitation, means it must be something big. Every other announcement Sony makes, we get via mail. On the next day…
It didn’t say, what will be announced. But… Last time our Sony representative told us, that there will come a “Full Frame NEX 7″ soon.“

"
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-sends-out-invitations-for-a-big-event-full-frame-nex-9-coming/



Sep 16, 2013 at 03:03 PM
h00ligan
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


I would love to see this happen. However I would guess he cheapest body will be the price of the rx1. Or a couple hundred less.

Sony is tearing it up lately, great sensors and maturing things. They are paving a return to smaller cameras. They do however, IMO, want to get the ff to pros. And pros need things in their cameras.

Great zooms, great flash, great support.

IMO they haven't dine the first two so far and the third has been pretty good from my experience.

Even with all small primes, they need f 2.8 zooms, and on a Nex body I can't see how they wouldn't be disproportionately huge.

Pluses - great for reportage, steal that market from rangefinder hold outs. But given the cost of ff sensor production vs crop, they need a broader market.

While a segment (like those hanging out in the alt forum) would be happy just to have a similar camera to the Nex, the masses will need more than the idea and a good small body to switch systems...and this isn't a fixed lens compact. A full frame interchangeable lens within reach of regularman is a system change.

My guess is revision two or three body before they work out the lenses and flashes. But that's conjecture.



Sep 16, 2013 at 04:10 PM
theSuede
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


The main "great zoom" to beat at the moment is the Canon 70-200F2.8IS2. Even people that have tasted the goodness of DR and resolution of a D800 seems to gravitate towards the Canon offering for image quality. It's quite simply brilliant.

And unfortunately, that's the size a 70-200/2.8 comes in. Making it smaller by anything more than a few percent is quite impossible (if you want image quality). And mounting a 70-200/2.8 to a slightly larger NEX feels like hitching an eighteen-wheeler trailer set to a Toyota Prius. Sure, the car is small and nimble, but that does very little to the overall package size, and makes handling and real-world performance abysmal.

Small FF cameras are not good for larger lenses. I'd hesitate to mount anything larger than a 85/1.8 or even a 24-70/4.0 to it.

To use it with something like a 35-70/3.5 or a 35/2.0 on the other hand....



Sep 16, 2013 at 04:58 PM
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


yeah, i really don't think FF a NEX shaped cameras make sense for work with big zooms and flashes and i get the feeling sony feels the same way. putting a giant lens on and carrying around off camera flashes mostly negates the purpose of a small form factor. hopefully sony will also make a bigger FF e-mount camera for such uses, but canon and nikon already have that market pretty well filled so it doesn't really offer much room for growth.




Sep 16, 2013 at 05:06 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


theSuede wrote:
The main "great zoom" to beat at the moment is the Canon 70-200F2.8IS2. Even people that have tasted the goodness of DR and resolution of a D800 seems to gravitate towards the Canon offering for image quality. It's quite simply brilliant.


From the images and tests I have seen, it isn't enough better than the Nikkor 70-200/2.8 VRII to offset the D800's advantages, so I will stick with mine, thank you very much, and keep the D800 advantage with all my other lenses too

Who do you know who has switched to Canon for this lens, and sold their D800?



Sep 16, 2013 at 05:10 PM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


sebboh wrote:
yeah, i really don't think FF a NEX shaped cameras make sense for work with big zooms and flashes and i get the feeling sony feels the same way. putting a giant lens on and carrying around off camera flashes mostly negates the purpose of a small form factor. hopefully sony will also make a bigger FF e-mount camera for such uses, but canon and nikon already have that market pretty well filled so it doesn't really offer much room for growth.



I agree, although I do think Sony's rumored desire to merge the A and E mounts into one camera could produce one heck of an interesting SLR-styled body. Something with the size and functionality of an a99 with interchangeable mounts for A and E where the sensor moves to give you the appropriate register could open up possibilities for other mounts or, at least, give you an appropriately sized e-mount camera for longer, faster teles.



Sep 16, 2013 at 05:21 PM
Jim Schemel
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


Not sure if this link has been posted here yet
-Jim

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-sends-out-invitations-for-a-big-event-full-frame-nex-9-coming/



Sep 16, 2013 at 08:05 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


It stated that "many Zeiss and Sony lenses will be announced". If that is really true, then this could be interesting. I am still not going to pay the same price for a NEX-9 as a D800 costs (and especially not more), and I will especially not buy any NEX if they don't fix that damn menu system with its stupid icons and horrible organisation, or if they insist on making the camera so tiny and scrawny without a substantial feel to it. The larger lenses would make another tiny camera a cruel joke, ergonomically.


Sep 16, 2013 at 08:10 PM
h00ligan
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


I dont' see you getting a compact full frame MILC for less than a d800- MAYBE the same price.

I omitted when making my earlier point -

Clearly sony are focusing on merging lines and the alpha dslr is to share lenses/accessories - as such, they need to work on flash and zooms.. whether one wishes to use them on a small camera is another story.

Additionally - let's not overlook the gigantic accessories for nex right now, from flashes to mics



Sep 16, 2013 at 09:11 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!


h00ligan wrote:
I dont' see you getting a compact full frame MILC for less than a d800- MAYBE the same price.


Judging by history, you are probably right. I still think that a reflex camera should be more expensive to build than an EVF (or none) camera. My feeling is that this is just Sony trying to get out of financial trouble by pricing things highly, but I could be wrong.



Sep 16, 2013 at 11:04 PM
1       2      
3
       4              8       9       end




FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4              8       9       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password