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Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo
  
 
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #1 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Mr Mouse wrote:
The announcement is the fact it for only for old Photoshop customers that balked at Adobe doubling the cost of upgrading Photoshop. Adobe will not double the price again soon for they have just doubled the price. The current price of single product Photoshop CC is $20 a month not $10 a month. Only old Photoshop users can get the $10 price if the sign before year end.


Yes it's for CS3 or later PS owners. And you get both PS and LR. And that price is not double the upgrade cost compared to before. They also wrote that they will announce the price for non PS owners later. So we don't know that price yet.
And no way that I could upgrade my old PS or my old PS & LR for half that cost every 18 months.



Sep 08, 2013 at 05:33 AM
coranda
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p.7 #2 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


My situation definitely isn't the norm but for me the price hike is substantial. The cheapest deal I can see is $10/month for Photoshop/Lightroom but I also make occasional use of Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects so it looks like $25/month is the best I can find so far. Compare that to the previous versions where I bought the CS6 Master Collection DVDs for $33.

Before the accusations fly: no, they are not pirate copies. The disks are legitimate and bought through an official Adobe reseller. They came with a serial number and the installations (on 2 computers) have been authorised through the Adobe servers.




Sep 08, 2013 at 06:31 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #3 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


coranda wrote:
My situation definitely isn't the norm but for me the price hike is substantial. The cheapest deal I can see is $10/month for Photoshop/Lightroom but I also make occasional use of Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects so it looks like $25/month is the best I can find so far. Compare that to the previous versions where I bought the CS6 Master Collection DVDs for $33.

Before the accusations fly: no, they are not pirate copies. The disks are legitimate and bought through an official Adobe reseller. They came with a serial number and the installations (on 2 computers) have been authorised
...Show more

I can also buy disks from a legitimate Adobe seller when I stay in Bankok. In a real shop in a large department store. The Master Collection cost about $ 3. And most of the time they will be authorised by Adobe. But we all know what it is



Sep 08, 2013 at 06:55 AM
coranda
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p.7 #4 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Lars Johnsson wrote:
I can also buy disks from a legitimate Adobe seller when I stay in Bankok. In a real shop in a large department store. The Master Collection cost about $ 3. And most of the time they will be authorised by Adobe. But we all know what it is


Yes, I've seen similar things in Bangkok and Malaysia. However, the disks I have are legitimate and are obtained with the full consent of Adobe. The terms are written into the contract my employer has with Adobe - although I notice that the price has now gone up to $110.



Sep 08, 2013 at 07:15 AM
15Bit
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p.7 #5 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


coranda wrote:
Yes, I've seen similar things in Bangkok and Malaysia. However, the disks I have are legitimate and are obtained with the full consent of Adobe. The terms are written into the contract my employer has with Adobe - although I notice that the price has now gone up to $110.


Similar arrangements exist here. I have several software packages on my home computer for free (including Win7 and Office 2010) via the licensing agreement of my employer.

My problem with the subscription model of software is the heavy asymmetry of the agreement. When you still had a choice about buying an upgrade or not there existed a much better balance in the customer-vendor relationship. They produced new features and you could choose whether to pay for them. The penalty for not paying was simply not having those features. At some point the features vs cost equation would tip and you would buy. In this relationship, Adobe are obligated to keep innovating if they want your custom. They could of course choose not to, in which case you likely wouldn't buy. Now that model wasn't without its failings, most obviously the way that Adobe leveraged upgrades by refusing to upgrade ACR to read files from new cameras and by cutting all support on a version of PS the moment the new version shipped. But still, as a customer you had a reasonable degree of leverage.

With subscription the customer-vendor relationship balance tips dramatically. The customer now has considerably less choice. You lose some of the control you had over how much your upgrades would cost you. The issue isn't really the magnitude of the cost, but the control that you had. This isn't really the big tip in the balance though. The big shift is the fact that under a subscription model Adobe is no longer so strongly obligated to innovate to keep your custom. You lose your leverage over them when you lose the choice of whether to upgrade. Now they can sit on their arses and do nothing, and you *must* continue to pay in order to access your files and do further work. In 5 years Photoshop could well remain functionally unchanged, but you will have paid them the cost of 2 or 3 upgrades anyway. They can change their prices to "optimise" their income, and the only say you will have in the matter is to completely cancel your subscription. Fine you say, i can go back to my old copy of CS6. But what about new customers, people who don't have a fall-back copy of photoshop? We have generally been ignoring them in these discussions.

Think Adobe won't do these things? Well, the path of recent history is generously littered with companies that took advantage of monopolistic or pseudo monopolistic positions. MS, Apple and Google have done it, what makes you think Adobe will be any different? Maybe they are a benevolent behemoth, putting their customers first and their profits second. Maybe with the improved efficiencies of cloud computing they will even pass on savings to customers and reduce prices. I will be keenly watching out of my window for the first passing flock of pigs, but until i see it i fully expect Photoshop to cost more and improve more slowly than it has in the past. And that is not a good deal for us as customers.


Edited on Sep 08, 2013 at 07:58 AM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2013 at 07:22 AM
coranda
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p.7 #6 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


15Bit wrote:
Similar arrangements exist here. I have several software packages on my home computer for free (including Win7 and Office 2010) via the licensing agreement of my employer.


I've been ripped off. I had to pay $12 for MS Office. :-)



Sep 08, 2013 at 07:29 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #7 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


coranda wrote:
Yes, I've seen similar things in Bangkok and Malaysia. However, the disks I have are legitimate and are obtained with the full consent of Adobe. The terms are written into the contract my employer has with Adobe - although I notice that the price has now gone up to $110.


Then it's a different thing. we also have those deals here in Sweden. But then your employer is paying Adobe by having a deal for many copies of their software



Sep 08, 2013 at 08:13 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #8 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


coranda wrote:
I've been ripped off. I had to pay $12 for MS Office. :-)


Yes you have been riped off In Bangkok when buying a new PC or laptop. Many shops give you a list with nearly every common software. Like everything from Microsoft, Adobe and so on. Then the customer check off the list for the software he like. Pay them 200 baht ( $ 6-7) and come back a few hours later. And he have all those software in his new PC



Sep 08, 2013 at 08:20 AM
coranda
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p.7 #9 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


And they say service is dead.


Sep 08, 2013 at 08:42 AM
RustyBug
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p.7 #10 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


coranda wrote:
Parliament had to change the law to make piracy illegal and they did so though copyright law. Hence, software piracy is illegal but it is not theft.


So, we should be able to agree that it is illegal/wrong (too simple) no matter whether you call it theft or piracy.


Nikon Rob wrote:

Not only is the owner not deprived of the property, they are not deprived of this "hypothetical revenue" you decided to erroneously add to your definition of theft to try to make it fit your incorrect viewpoint.

So, how does this compare with awards for damages ... isn't that a recognition of the lost/deprived value of "hypothetical revenue" (never mind the splitting hairs at theft vs. copyright).

Imo, the concept of theft/stolen my have legal sub-categorically, redefined application specification terminology, but at it's core is the fact you took/appropriate/copied/duplicated/stole/insert legal term of choice) something that wasn't yours to do so with. I realize that will matter in legal proceedings as to ensuring you utilize the appropriate terminology in concert with the applicable statues as written, but relative to the propriety/morality of taking what isn't yours (no matter how you want to slice & dice or convolute it ... too simple, it's wrong.



Sep 08, 2013 at 01:30 PM
 

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aubsxc
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p.7 #11 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Nikon Rob wrote:
Also incorrect. You'll notice "the money that would have been paid to him if the property had been acquired in accordance with the owner's wishes" isn't mentioned in that definition - you have to actually deprive them of THE PROPERTY. With piracy the owner retains the original to sell to whomever he pleases and make just as much revenue as he otherwise would have. Moreover, the owner would likely not get any revenue from the pirating party regardless of whether the piracy happens or not - pirates are rarely potential purchasers. Not only is the owner not deprived of
...Show more

The revenue is not hypothetical. Software companies make billions each year by licensing their products. It is very real. So is piracy, which deprives software companies of revenues and drives up the price and/or introduces DRM which usually makes the product less user friendly for the people who are actually paying for the software.

I would have never have paid for a Ferrari, therefore if I were to take one from the street without the owner's consent it is not theft. That argument doesn't work. People pirate software because they want to use the software without paying a licensing fee to the owner/vendor. Under the wiki definition of theft,

Wiki: The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use

Piracy involves the unauthorized using of another's property with the intent to defraud the owner/vendor of his rightful licensing fees.

Do you people honestly think the RIAA wouldn't press criminal charges against every single person who pirates music if it were actually theft? It's not.

You would have to ask the RIAA. I suspect it is because they would have a hard time convincing local enforcement to pursue nonviolent, petty crimes and because they have potentially much more to gain by pursuing civil litigation.


More on the topic, $10-15 a month for a license is not that bad a deal, but a lot of people will never bite because of one thing - at the end of the day, be it after 3 months or 10 years, you maintain ownership/rights to nothing. They need to allow users to keep using the software (without upgraded features) after so many months of paying. Say I get a license today, 9/8/13. After a set amount of months, say 24 or 36 or whatever, I should get to stop paying but keep using some version of the software. I...Show more

I feel the same way. I think Adobe is making a huge mistake by taking away the customer's option to buy a perpetual license, and I will not be subscribing anytime soon. But just because I am unwilling to pay Adobe to subscribe to CC does not mean I will be pirating CC.





Sep 08, 2013 at 02:40 PM
RustyBug
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p.7 #12 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


aubsxc wrote:
But just because I am unwilling to pay Adobe to subscribe to CC does not mean I will be pirating CC.

+1 @ ^

And thus the difference between an honest person and a so-called "generally honest" person.


"Generally honest" infers people are "honest" when it is convenient for one to be so or when they fear the consequences of being caught. Truly honest people remain honest even when it is most inconvenient or very costly for them to do so.

People want to split hairs at theft vs. terminology of choice ... "generally honest" is just another way of splitting hairs to describe the character/actions of being "sometimes dishonest" without actually admitting they did something wrong so they can feel good about themselves without owning up to admitting they are capable of doing things that constitute wrong.

If you want to shoot straight about it, call it like it is ... people doing wrong because they have justified in their own minds or gone along with others who have justified the wrongful action through faulty rationale ... i.e. akin to a Robin Hood syndrome @ taking from others and giving to yourself. The faulty rationale being that you're poor compared to the rich you took it from and they won't miss it, so it's okay for the "little guy" to take it without paying for it ... that's BS.


Edited on Sep 09, 2013 at 02:38 PM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2013 at 03:07 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #13 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


If you remember the very well-known "Pirat-bay" trial in Sweden a couple of years ago. Four people got one year each in prison and also have to pay damages of about $ 5 million


Sep 08, 2013 at 03:16 PM
RustyBug
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p.7 #14 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


BTW, if you "sneak" into the movie theater without paying for it, or "slip" or "hop" into a second show without paying for it, or upgrade yourself from the 2D to the 3D version ... what justification / rationale are you going to use ... what, that you didn't actually take anything away from the owner, therefore you didn't steal anything? Maybe the couple below should have tried using that logic/rationale.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/couple-snuck-into-movie-felony_n_2774003.html
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/06/can-sneaking-into-movies-get-you-arrested.html


Nikon Rob wrote:
you have to actually deprive them of THE PROPERTY.

Interesting that the statute for "Theft of Services" uses the specific term "Theft", and in the case of entertainment in which nothing physical was removed from the owner ... unauthorized movies, stealing cable, sharing cable with unauthorized users, etc. the term of "theft" is still prescribed in the statute.
http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.039.026.000.html



Edited on Sep 08, 2013 at 11:05 PM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2013 at 05:48 PM
skibum5
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p.7 #15 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


aubsxc wrote:
The revenue is not hypothetical. Software companies make billions each year by licensing their products. It is very real. So is piracy, which deprives software companies of revenues and drives up the price and/or introduces DRM which usually makes the product less user friendly for the people who are actually paying for the software.



True, although the numbers they use usually don't have much bearing to reality. They count each case of copies software as a full lost sale when a great many of them never would have been sales anyway. I'm not sure why they need to exaggerate things, often radically, since it just reduces credibility and seems to be counter productive.

(If you study it: In some cases, in the early days, piracy actually increased net income, in some of the 8bit days kids were like man by the time you get the computer you can barely afford any games not worth it but then if they saw they could get some games on the side they went for computers but they still bought every bit as many games as they could on honor and all those sales were extras that happened because of piracy and the starter losses were all stuff that would never have been purchased anyway. Of course, it doesn't always go like that and it's probably been a long, long time since it was ever actually a net plus and later on piracy got completely out of control in some cases, one really bad case was in the later Amiga days over in Europe where piracy on games for it became ridiculous and there were barely any sales, a total disaster, developers got utterly shafted and it collapsed. But there are still times when it's close to a draw and most of the time the losses are much smaller than claimed, not to say the actual realistic losses might not still be bad at times, but more often could've only made like 0.1-25% more, realistically, instead of the 300-60000% more claimed, of course it depends upon the exact circumstance and location, in some regions of the world it is very high these days and even 20% can certainly hurt someone. On an side note: these days a rather high percentage of packed cracks have all sorts of malicious nasties riding along. I almost feel like that is actually a better 'DRM' than anything the software companies do which are often bothersome to legit users these days and never seem to do much in terms of saving any sales that would've been sales.)

DRM can be quite a problem itself though.

The phone home type of DRM is especially pernicious, even if it only has to be done a single time per install, since as soon as the companies goes away so does your software or music or whatnot (RIAA insisted MusicGiants use DRM on all their lossless music, MusicGiants goes under, any music that hadn't been refreshed at the right time before they went under became useless, RIAA didn't give a crap and were basically like just go by it again) and the same has happened to some games and other software. Even on itunes if an app stops getting distributed and you end up needing to restore and ipad the app you paid for is gone and you can't get it back again. With the old codebook type DRM you never had such issues.

And sometimes it can be pretty annoying that companies so cripple and restrict usage that purchased items are almost unusable while pirated copies be used as you wish and easily, which does get frustrating.

The way they try to overly lock down digital media and certain other things sometimes drives away more sales than it creates and/or saves, sometimes noticeably so, for both media and games. Some DRM has been so nasty and people so appalled that I think potential games sales got cut easily multiple times more than piracy would've cost. And for media they sometimes try to scheme up ways to source each usage and usage on device type into so many revenue streams that the restrictions and potential eventual complete losses to the consumer are so annoying that they just lose way more sales than their split stream ever have a hope to make up for, but it all sounds good in the board room when some new MBA presents it.

Anyway it's a tangled subject.



Sep 08, 2013 at 08:28 PM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.7 #16 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Erik_J wrote:
How many computers am I allowed to intall and use it on ? Is it two or?


I belive it's two. But I'm not 100% sure



Sep 08, 2013 at 10:07 PM
tuthill
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p.7 #17 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
I belive it's two. But I'm not 100% sure


It is two however it is possible to install it on more than two. If you attempt to run it on a third machine you will get a dialog that offers to sign off your other installations (if they are signed in to the cloud) and then it will run on the third machine. Sign off on the third machine and you're good to go on the other 2 machines. Plus this works cross platform so I have CC on 2 Macs and 1 Windows machine (which I use occasionally).

In my book this new offer is good for my purposes. Only downside is the fact that the Lightroom license isn't perpetual however it won't be an onerous expense to purchase a new perpetual license if/when one cancels their subscription.



Sep 09, 2013 at 12:36 AM
skibum5
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p.7 #18 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Lars Johnsson wrote:
This price was not for the earliest users. It was for anyone who signed up before 2014.
And you really belived the price would be the same 100 years from today


It could for the very few who signed up pre-2014. I'm not sure Adobe will exist in 100 years but if so....



Sep 09, 2013 at 02:55 AM
skibum5
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p.7 #19 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


Norman my love wrote:
15bit - I would say the entertainment industry gets more protection because so much money talks. After all some of those Hollywood types, make only $80 million per year and most actors make much more than a talented brain surgeon. You wouldn't want to see them loose any.


Most major, big-time execs and money men make much more even big time actors and at least the actors produce something worthwhile (at least for some at times) . If an exec runs a giant company into the ground they get a $40 million golden parachute and move on to take over another company. (OK, OK, they do work hard and some do produce and it's not easy but some have also gone against every internal warning and advice from lower downs and run things into the ground and gotten huge bonuses and some of the investment people have basically just raided and gussied up impressions and sold for huge profits right before collapse and repeat) If a big star leads a few films that bomb they get may struggle to get major leading carrying type roles. The average person in finance makes more than the average actor I'd bet, by a long shot.




Edited on Sep 09, 2013 at 09:43 PM · View previous versions



Sep 09, 2013 at 03:00 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #20 · Adobe offerts Photoshop+Lightning cloud for $9.99/mo


skibum5 wrote:
It could for the very few who signed up pre-2014. I'm not sure Adobe will exist in 100 years but if so....


If you read on Adobes site and the statement they made public about this offer, it does not say anything about the price staying the same at all. It's just something people here in the forums made up. This is what Adobe say about the price:

"To be clear, $9.99 is not an introductory price. It is the price for those of you who sign up by December 31, 2013. And here is a list of prices for the major regions outside of the US keep in mind that these prices are exclusive of VAT/local taxes which vary by country.

North America $9.99 USD

European Union 9.99 EUR

EMEA non-EU $9.99 USD

Australia/New Zealand $9.99 AUD

Asia Pacific $9.99 USD

Latin America $9.99 USD

Japan 1,000 JPY

UK 7.14 GBP



Sep 09, 2013 at 05:08 AM
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