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1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail
  
 
Harry.C
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p.1 #1 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Last night I found a beauty of a hawk that kept returning time and again to the same location near me. It was a big crop for my 1DX + 600, but perfect distance for a 1200mm so I put on the 2.0 TC that my wife uses on her 300mm. I thought I was getting great shots but upon returning home I found out all of them had missed focus badly.

I just installed FoCal software and with the 1DX + 600 + 2x TC it suggested a AF adjustment of -104! With any other combination of lens + 2x TC everything is normal (i.e. with 300mm f2.8 + 2x TC it came up with a AF adjustment of +5).

Has anyone seen this problem? What can I do? It can't be a problem with the TC, since it works fine on any other lens and other body. It can't be the 600 because that's fine with other bodies and the 1.4 TC. Am I correct to assume there is a problem in the 1DX somehow? Does anyone know of a solution?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Cheers,
Harry C



Sep 02, 2013 at 09:22 PM
Psychic1
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p.1 #2 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Excellent results in Nature and Wildlife with that combo.

PM Speedmaster - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1236869

Probally needs MA.



Sep 02, 2013 at 09:47 PM
Harry.C
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p.1 #3 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


I appreciate the response, but as I mentioned the MA suggested was -104 (i.e. impossible).


Sep 02, 2013 at 09:50 PM
dfresh
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p.1 #4 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Harry.C wrote:
It can't be a problem with the TC, since it works fine on any other lens and other body. It can't be the 600 because that's fine with other bodies and the 1.4 TC. Am I correct to assume there is a problem in the 1DX somehow? Does anyone know of a solution?


I wouldn't so quickly assume because a lens (or TC) works well on one body it will automatically work well with another. It could easily be the culprit needing adjustment even it behaves normally on another body. Roger Cicala explained it quite well on his blog once:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths



Sep 02, 2013 at 10:04 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #5 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Something sounds very off with that. I didn't think Focal would even spit out such a number. Usually just gives an error if it is having trouble getting a value. I would try a couple things: re-run Focal and see if it continues to give such an odd value. Also setup on tripod and test between LiveView focus and then normal Autofocus. Make sure the LV can produce a sharp image as that will rule out some other lens or TC problem.

The link to Arash's image above is with the 600II and it would be expected to deliver better results than the 600I but that is not to say the 600I and TCIII shouldn't be able to produce a sharp image.

My guess is that it needs some amount of adjustment but I don't think Focal is getting a correct value. I have tried to AFMA my 600II and 2.0TCIII and it is very difficult to get a result out of Focal because of the extreme focal length and minor movements in the setup. You may need to manually try to MA it comparing it to a properly focused LV focused image.



Sep 02, 2013 at 10:07 PM
mitesh
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p.1 #6 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Harry,

Have you verified that lens/TC/camera contacts are clean and properly connected (solidly "clicked")? Also, what version of the 2X TC did you use? Can you post a picture with EXIF intact so we can see exposure settings? Shot handheld or tripod mounted? Was IS on/off? AI Servo or One-shot?

I would also try to mount the rig on a solid tripod and gimbal head, pick a contrasty subject, and take some shots using both PDAF and Live View CDAF, using center point,
One-Shot AF. Check for any inconsistency in the focus between PDAF and CDAF results. I have used FoCal and gotten inconsistent results from time to time. You might consider trying Dot Tune as a way of double checking FoCal's results.

Hope this can get you going in the right direction.



Sep 02, 2013 at 10:08 PM
Vancouver47
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p.1 #7 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Canon can calibrate the 600 and TC together. My 300mm f/2.8 IS +2xTC was a stinker that no amount of MA could improve. Following Canon's calibration of the two, it is now outstanding.


Sep 02, 2013 at 10:09 PM
Harry.C
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p.1 #8 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Vancouver47 wrote:
Canon can calibrate the 600 and TC together. My 300mm f/2.8 IS +2xTC was a stinker that no amount of MA could improve. Following Canon's calibration of the two, it is now outstanding.


Can you please explain a bit more about how you arranged this service from Canon?



Sep 02, 2013 at 10:24 PM
onesickpuppy
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p.1 #9 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Well...I know that this isn't apple to apple, but on my 5DMK3 I just borrowed a 600 vs II to cover some hydro racing and it did require some MA to be 100% dead on...about .5 of a click towards the body side.

Since the sensor in the 5D3 is like the little brother to the 1Dx, it sounds like you have other issues, as the following images will show it's a super setup!!!

If I can get a sharp image at 1/80th....you should be able to as well.
.
Boat 1 is at 80th of a sec to get some blur...and moving about 110 mph

Boat 2 is heavy overhead sun, moving about 160 mph

one at 600mm and the other at 1200mm


Funny you didn't 'see' your shots weren't correct while shooting....



© onesickpuppy 2013


Boat 1

  Canon EOS-1D Mark IV    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM lens    600mm    f/14.0    1/80s    100 ISO    +0.7 EV  







Boat 2




Sep 02, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Harry.C
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p.1 #10 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


I did another test.

Here's the same shot at 0, -20, +20, and manually-focused via 10x live view.







However accurate FoCal may be with this focal length, one thing is clear in that I need to be able to get beyond -20 for this combo. I'm not really sure where to go from here.




Sep 02, 2013 at 11:47 PM
 

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arbitrage
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p.1 #11 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


THat LV doesn't look very good either but does look like that combo would need to go more negative than -20 to even match it. Did you try letting it AF in LV and see what that gets you? THat uses a different method of AF (as long as quick AF isn't turned on) and won't be affected by MA values.


Sep 03, 2013 at 12:06 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #12 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Also is IS on or off?


Sep 03, 2013 at 12:07 AM
Harry.C
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p.1 #13 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Let me run down the list:

IS off
Remote shutter
Solid tripod
Solid tripod head
Single Point AF
Av mode
Roughly 12m distance from target
Consistent lighting

I'll try to see how AF in LV works. My batteries are dead now so I'm charging at the moment.

Cheers,
Harry



Sep 03, 2013 at 12:17 AM
shooter00
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p.1 #14 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Harry.C wrote:
Let me run down the list:

IS off
Remote shutter
Solid tripod
Solid tripod head
Single Point AF
Av mode
Roughly 12m distance from target
Consistent lighting

I'll try to see how AF in LV works. My batteries are dead now so I'm charging at the moment.

Cheers,
Harry


Your supposed to run your test at 50x the focal length.
That combination would be aprox.198ft.
It's said you can get by at 25x but I would stay at 50x if it was me........



Sep 03, 2013 at 01:11 AM
3iron
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p.1 #15 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


shooter; you are a not totally correct. FoCal says you can test the 600 at 12m which is 12 times focal length in their latest update.


Sep 03, 2013 at 02:45 AM
Harry.C
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p.1 #16 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


shooter00 wrote:
Your supposed to run your test at 50x the focal length.
That combination would be aprox.198ft.
It's said you can get by at 25x but I would stay at 50x if it was me........

That measurement might work for shorter lenses, but at 200 feet the target focal provides wouldn't be much more than a few pixels even with a 1200mm.

Regardless of that, as you can see from my own tests I need to adjust more than -20 which was my reason for the thread.



Sep 03, 2013 at 03:10 AM
shooter00
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p.1 #17 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


I've seen that and have tried but ended up with too many varied results.
When I move my targets back to the aprox. 50x I get much more consistant results.
I guess the best thing to do is just try the different distances and see what works best for each persons taste.

This is from the Focal manual:

"Different distances to the target can yield different AF micro adjustment results. Due to the way the autofocus system operates in a camera, a single AF micro adjustment value will almost certainly not provide perfect operation at all distances. Each result obtained at a specific distance is valid for that distance. Ideally, you should calibrate at around the “most used” distance. Canon recommend a distance of 50x the focal length (e.g. 2.5m for a 50mm lens), but this will only yield a value correct at 50x the focal length, which may not be appropriate for the lens in question (e.g. a macro lens).
It is also worth noting that the AF micro adjust solution may start to move significantly as the test is run close to Minimum Focus Distance (MFD) of the lens, so it is not advisable to run the test with the camera very close to the target."



Sep 03, 2013 at 03:19 AM
shooter00
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p.1 #18 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Harry you can print out the targets or get them printed in larger sizes.
On the left is the normal letter size on the right is one I enlarged and printed on my 13x19 printer for longer lens testing....





Sep 03, 2013 at 04:50 AM
Jim Victory
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p.1 #19 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


I wouldn't use Focal since your having read errors. Just because your examples at 0, -20, and +20 are not sharp doesn't mean you can't find a sharp value between 0 and -20 or +20. You need to test your lens at various settings from 0 to -20 and +20 to see if there is a MA point that is sharper.

As for distance, the charts become unrealistic in the distance needed for properly calibration using a 600 + 2x. Its best to use a distance you usually shoot that combo with or choose a distance between 50-100 feet which is 25x or 50x just for the 600 alone.

I have Focal and was a beta tester but it has too many bugs for my taste. I have had good luck with Focus Tune, especially with longer lenses like my 500 and 600 with the 1.4x and 2x.

Jim



Sep 03, 2013 at 05:59 AM
Thang
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p.1 #20 · 1DX + 600mm v. 1 + 2.0 TC v. 3 = fail


Jim Victory wrote:
Just because your examples at 0, -20, and +20 are not sharp doesn't mean you can't find a sharp value between 0 and -20 or +20. You need to test your lens at various settings from 0 to -20 and +20 to see if there is a MA point that is sharper.

As for distance, the charts become unrealistic in the distance needed for properly calibration using a 600 + 2x. Its best to use a distance you usually shoot that combo with or choose a distance between 50-100 feet which is 25x or 50x just for the 600 alone.

Jim


+1 - if it still fails, take it to Canon?



Sep 03, 2013 at 05:51 PM
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