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Archive 2013 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?

  
 
skibum5
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


retrofocus wrote:
Photos taken both with the MkII AND the MkIII suffer under specific low light conditions and very high ISO numbers from the same banding issues since it is the same sensor.


It's not quite the same sensor and from all I have seen the 5D3 definitely has less banding at high ISO.

(and for video since it can do some binning it allows for VASTLY better 1080p quality, almost two stops better and with much less aliasing/moire)


At normal ISO numbers (I consider normal between ISO 100-400) there is no difference at all between photos taken with either the MkII or the MkIII.


although you can be a bit more aggressive with sharpening 5D3 since even going aggresive with it you don't bringup noise at low ISO, but yeah there really is not much between the two at low ISO (for stills that is, for video it is almost two stops better)



Sep 03, 2013 at 03:47 PM
skibum5
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


gdanmitchell wrote:
The banding thing exists... but the vast majority of people will only see it in certain kinds of images, pushed in certain ways, and when viewed at 100%. It has never caused a problem for me - aside from one time in a particularly tricky image when I thought I would have to do something in post so that it wouldn't be visible in a print. In some other rare situations, I've been able to detect it when I went looking at 100% magnification... but it wasn't visible in the final image.


banding is a type of noise that actually tends to show at all scales since it doesn't scale away like random noise so much at lower magnification




Sep 03, 2013 at 03:52 PM
skibum5
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


gdanmitchell wrote:
There is more noise at higher ISOs, of course, but I haven't noticed banding there, and others tell me that they don't regard that as the main noise issues at higher ISO. There it is basically just the old story of higher ISO coming with more noise. This is also one of those things that generally improves as technology improves - and any of these cameras are better than film in this regard. And what noise you can see at the higher ISOs is often not really an issue in photographs - it is more of a technical concern.



In high ISO shots were some of the image was very bright and then large parts were near black banding could be a big deal at high ISO. And it is why a 7D sometimes does much better at high iso than a 20D or 50D despite the SNR not being THAT different. In rare cases the 7D would even look better per image than the 5D2 because of this and it explains why in some particular cases the 5D3 can look more than just the bit over a half stop better it measures for SNR differences at very high ISO than the 5D2.

Old 20D and 5D shots could get pretty banded at ISO3200 and up, especially if the scenes feature large areas of dark shadow while 7D and 6D and 5D3 and 1DX can hold together much better.




Sep 03, 2013 at 03:56 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


retrofocus wrote:
I purposely did not reply to your first quotation in regard to my earlier statement since it only leads into a discussion of 5D MkIII vs. 5D MkII pros and cons. You can argue as much as you want how much better you find the offered features in the MkIII which are all sensor-independent. This is not the point of this discussion here, it is only about the files of the 5D cameras and how they look. As I mentioned earlier, I agree that at high ISO numbers photos taken with the 5D MkIII look better and contain less noise.
...Show more

I think we are talking at cross purposes Retrofocus. What I said was:

Jeff Nolten wrote:
I'll have to take issue with this Retro, Canon claims it to be a totally new sensor design with gapless microlenses and a new photodiode structure; the new Digic probably helps some too. Most will agree Canon eked a bit of performance improvement with this. I for one am glad they didn't do the same kind or dramatic pixel density increase they did between 1 and 2. The 5D2 sensor was/is awfully good; that the 5D3 sensor is only a ittle better is good enough for me Being able to AF at f8 is killer but thats OT.


I think you say they are the same sensor because you see no apparent output difference below 400 ISO. That is certainly valid to claim. I was saying that Canon claims its a new design. Just the change in MP required redesign however insignificant but Canon made other mods as well. You couldn't swap sensors and expect the cameras to function. Whether these changes yielded observable improvement is indeed debatable. Angst over no dramatic increase in DR is understandable. I feel the 5D3 is a bit more forgiving in post but its small enough that I'll happily use either camera unless I need f8 AF. Cheers.



Sep 03, 2013 at 04:41 PM
kezeka
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Thanks for explaining why no one has been able to make good photographs with this camera. And congratulations on being the newest contestant on Hyperbole Wars! ;-)

Dan


Crappy underexposed photos was in reference to my photo taking abilities - please reread my response. I also never mentioned that the 5D3 was incapable of capturing incredible images, nor the 5D2 with the same exact sensor. I was elaborating on why I think the 5D3 is the same exact sensor as the 5D2 despite it being an excellent opportunity for an large improvement in sensor design. Please do not create your own context for my statements that were explicitly stated as being subjective.



Sep 03, 2013 at 08:05 PM
Jefferson
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


Did I mention…?

My Vote:
http://jeffersonposter.smugmug.com/Photography/Something-Different/i-xQFHV4C/0/X2/Canon%205Dc-2-X2.jpg

... It also grills... and retrives cold beer from the fridge... Let's see your II or III beat that...



Sep 03, 2013 at 09:29 PM
Jo Dilbeck
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


I think there is a lot of subjectivity in the IQ. In my case, I was first introduced to the 5DC after using a 30D for several years. It was my first full frame camera and the view through the viewfinder was just stunning. Perhaps it was more just the FF "image" that led me to truly love my 5DC. However, as I grew older, and my eyes grew weaker, I found the LCD and the viewfinder to be very difficult to see/read. That's one of the few reasons I finally upgraded to 5D2 after having the 5DC for about 3 years. At last, I could see again. The only reason I upgraded to 5D3 was as a consolidation of the 5D2 and 7D (retaining 1D4). The 5D3 has the AF I need for in flight shots, and the full frame for landscapes. Just a good all-around camera for what I do, YMMV.

Jo



Sep 03, 2013 at 09:33 PM
mttran
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


Jefferson wrote:
....Let's see your II or III beat that...


Jefferson, until then yours still the champ

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h47/sketchkat06/GIFs/laughinghecklers.gif



Sep 03, 2013 at 09:43 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


kezeka wrote:
Crappy underexposed photos was in reference to my photo taking abilities - please reread my response. I also never mentioned that the 5D3 was incapable of capturing incredible images, nor the 5D2 with the same exact sensor. I was elaborating on why I think the 5D3 is the same exact sensor as the 5D2 despite it being an excellent opportunity for an large improvement in sensor design. Please do not create your own context for my statements that were explicitly stated as being subjective.


I expressed no doubts about their subjectivity. ;-)



Sep 03, 2013 at 10:32 PM
mspencer1
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


aladyforty wrote:
curious to know why you would prefer 5DII over the later model?



My bad. I meant to say that I definitely prefer the 5DIII.



Sep 03, 2013 at 11:27 PM
aladyforty
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


mspencer1 wrote:
My bad. I meant to say that I definitely prefer the 5DIII.



wish I could afford one, I'm really happy with the IQ from mark II but to have the auto focus and frames per second of 5DIII in that body would be nice....one day



Sep 04, 2013 at 06:10 AM
retrofocus
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Files? Which 5D do you like best?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I think you say they are the same sensor because you see no apparent output difference below 400 ISO. That is certainly valid to claim. I was saying that Canon claims its a new design. Just the change in MP required redesign however insignificant but Canon made other mods as well. You couldn't swap sensors and expect the cameras to function. Whether these changes yielded observable improvement is indeed debatable. Angst over no dramatic increase in DR is understandable. I feel the 5D3 is a bit more forgiving in post but its small enough that I'll happily use either
...Show more

Points well taken, Jeff! Fully agree!



Sep 04, 2013 at 06:54 AM
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