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Archive 2013 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results
  
 
lsquare
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


johnctharp wrote:
I think that the best takeaway is that Canon split the pixels in half for PDAF (or DPAF), and image quality didn't suffer at all. That's a big thing, really, even though they're still missing out on DR (which I agree that they need to fix ASAP).

The positives here are that the 7D II, if it uses this exact sensor, will be at least as good as the 7D with respect to dynamic range and high ISO performance- while putting out noticeably (if only) better resolution from high-end glass, and that future PDAF-based sensors for the Rebels, the M's, and
...Show more

There's no doubt in my mind that Dual Pixel AF will eventually migrate over to Canon's FF sensors.

The thing about Canon's disappointing DR performance is that we've been complaining about it for years. It's not like Canon's competitors gained the edge recently. They've had a lead for at least 3 years if not longer now. Canon seriously needs to improve their sensors and I don't just want more pixels. I have no problem with more pixels, but DR should be top priority followed by high ISO performance.



Aug 29, 2013 at 08:36 AM
johnctharp
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


MintMar wrote:
Yes, true, but you would not get it while looking into the viewfinder. So you either get an interesting AF option while having the electronic "viewfinder" with all the downsides, or OVF great for the fast moving action without this new AF option...


But that is the point . The real point is that, even if it's not implemented on the 70D, the possibility exists for Canon to build in autofocus tracking using DPAF that rivals- or exceeds- their best dedicated PDAF sensors.



Aug 29, 2013 at 02:48 PM
WilliamFinley
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


mttran wrote:
Sticking with my 7yrs old cam, nothing new in canon land for my type of shooting anyway. Thanks canon you save me big buck


+1

Bill



Aug 29, 2013 at 02:55 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


kevindar wrote:
Jeff, if you have a 7d, and dont care about video focusing, there is no reason to buy the 70D.


Thats my conclusion:
- Aside from focussing during video, rotating lcd (if you want it and I don't for wildlife), and being able to set the low shutter on autoiso, the 7d is better or even. Particularly for wildlife.
- focus speed is about the same ( i tested it)
- 1fps better for 7d
- dot focus not in 70d [really big deal to me]
- no c1,c2,c3 [really big deal to me]
- sd limits 70d to 15 in burst with twice the time to clear buffer (I have tested) [really big deal to me]
- not as good weather sealing
- uses different remote shutter than 5d series
- bigger for bigger hands
- no joy stick on 70d
[70d will not work on cs5 or earlier or osx10.6.x causing you >$300 to upgrade] ******** http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1237937

Hopefully the elves at canon are working hard on some still camera benefits for 7d2. Maybe a 1dv with higher iso and dynamic range.

The focus while videoing is a nice feature for some but really belonged in the eos-m where the camera is focussing using liveview all the time.


Edited on Sep 01, 2013 at 06:33 PM · View previous versions



Aug 29, 2013 at 03:14 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


kevindar wrote:
Jeff, if you have a 7d, and dont care about video focusing, there is no reason to buy the 70D.


Scott Stoness wrote:
Thats my conclusion:...
Hopefully the elves at canon are working hard on some still camera benefits for 7d2. Maybe a 1dv with higher iso and dynamic range.

The focus while videoing is a nice feature for some but really belonged in the eos-m where the camera is focussing using liveview all the time.


Agree here, the 70D is only interesting to me as a view to Canon's technology. I'd only be interested in a high end APS C if it achieves 5D3 IQ or better for noise. For casual video both my G1X and my wife's SL1 have AF during video that works well enough. Although even that is a tradeoff; the SL1's hybrid sensor works well but needs an STM lens to AF smoothly. (Look at the panning video comparison of the 18-55 vs the 15-85 here at DPR.) The 18-55 is a poor landscape lens compared to the 15-85 (I've tested). Does DPAF require STM lenses for smooth video AF? If so then we have to wait for STM to show up in the higher end lenses.



Aug 29, 2013 at 04:39 PM
johnctharp
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


DPAF apparently works amazingly good with USM L lenses; I've seen comparisons using the 100L, 70-200L IS II, and 85L II, and the focus reminds you immediately of a decent camcorder- except that it's knife-point accurate with zero hunting. It's not even really apparent what the point of STM is, except that it's a cheaper 'USM' for Canon's non-L kit and mid-range lineup. STM at least guarantees the focusing speed of the non-USM lenses with the accuracy and smoothness of USM along with an internal focus design that keeps the front element from rotating during zoom/focus, while being slower than USM and not providing a real, coupled manual focus override found on most USM lenses, instead offering a 'decoupled' electronic autofocus input that's usually a bit laggy and imprecise, and requires that the camera be powered to be used.


Aug 29, 2013 at 05:44 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


I hope that DPAF works better, but the 15-85 is USM and doesn't do well on the SL1 according to DPR's comparison. Its only a hybrid sensor so the DPAF should have more data to work off of. Achieving smooth panning has been the bane of my videos.


Aug 29, 2013 at 06:02 PM
maholyoak
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


I'm puzzled by the DxoMark results.

The resolution and noise levels at higher ISO's looks better to me than the 7d on both dpreview samples of RAW images:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d/10

Similarly the just posted
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=7680 image quality tests compare favorably in resolution and noise.

Whether this is down to the straight higher total pixels in the sensor I don't know. However, I feel like we are missing something here and perhaps shows that we should be cautious making judgments on just a sensor. I cannot comment based on information I have seen on DR though this seems like something that DxoMark might capture more completely.

My 70d is on the FedEx delivery truck as we speak so I am keen to test it myself.
Marcel.



Aug 29, 2013 at 07:06 PM
snapsy
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


maholyoak wrote:
I'm puzzled by the DxoMark results.

The resolution and noise levels at higher ISO's looks better to me than the 7d on both dpreview samples of RAW images:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d/10

Similarly the just posted
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=7680 image quality tests compare favorably in resolution and noise.

Whether this is down to the straight higher total pixels in the sensor I don't know. However, I feel like we are missing something here and perhaps shows that we should be cautious making judgments on just a sensor. I cannot comment based on information I have seen on DR though this seems like something that DxoMark might capture more
...Show more

Neither of those sites make attempts to provide equal lighting/exposure conditions between tested cameras, which means the comparisons are problematic.



Aug 29, 2013 at 07:13 PM
curious80
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


Jeff Nolten wrote:
According to the DxO charts, the 7D has a tad bit better DR below ISO 800 than either the 70D or any of the other 18 MP Canon sensors. This seems a bit odd to me......


The DR number does not give you a complete picture of the shadow region performance of the sensor. All it is saying is that 7D hits the "noise == signal" point at a lower intensity. However if you compare the full SNR curves, you will see that 70D has lower noise over a large part of the intensity range (down to about 1-2% gray level), below which 7D starts to pull ahead. These results mean that over much of the shadow range, you would fine 70D to be either slightly cleaner than 7D or just about the same, except the deepest shadows where 7D might be slightly better.



Aug 29, 2013 at 07:37 PM
 

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curious80
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


maholyoak wrote:
I'm puzzled by the DxoMark results.

The resolution and noise levels at higher ISO's looks better to me than the 7d on both dpreview samples of RAW images:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d/10
....


As per DxoMark, 70D has both higher mid-gray SNR as well as better DR at higher ISOs compared to 7D, so this seems consistent with DxoMark findings.



Aug 29, 2013 at 07:42 PM
maholyoak
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


And how do we weigh 11% more pixels in the 70d compared to the 7d or 60d? This seems somewhat valuable to me in a crop camera for somebody who shoots birds frequently. Where does DxoMark tell us about this?


Aug 29, 2013 at 08:05 PM
curious80
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


maholyoak wrote:
And how do we weigh 11% more pixels in the 70d compared to the 7d or 60d? This seems somewhat valuable to me in a crop camera for somebody who shoots birds frequently. Where does DxoMark tell us about this?


Of course DxoMark doesn't tell anything about resolution.



Aug 29, 2013 at 08:19 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


maholyoak wrote:
And how do we weigh 11% more pixels in the 70d compared to the 7d or 60d? This seems somewhat valuable to me in a crop camera for somebody who shoots birds frequently. Where does DxoMark tell us about this?


I tend to compare the "screen" graphs as they are more representative of pixel level performance. This gives me a bit of information on what to expect when looking at 100% or trying for max resolution on the bird. "print" gives pixel averaged data and tends to favor higher pixel density sensors. I'm sure this is valid if you print often, but then all recent sensors look good if you pixel average to a print resolution. Just my opinion


curious80 wrote:
The DR number does not give you a complete picture of the shadow region performance of the sensor.


Thanks Curious, I agree, the chart data need to be balanced against competent user input.



Aug 30, 2013 at 01:35 AM
skibum5
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


Jeff Nolten wrote:
"print" gives pixel averaged data and tends to favor higher pixel density sensors.



it doesn't favor the high MP cameras, it evens things up and makes sure the lower pixel cameras are not favored.

(of course screen view can still be interesting to know what it will do when you need to look at 100% views and to determine how usable it might be if you wanted to zoom in all the way; not so useful for comparing between bodies at all though)



Aug 30, 2013 at 01:50 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


snapsy wrote:
70D Review

Summary: Traditional Canon low ISO DR performance. High ISO 18% SNR is close to the D7100 but trails the D7100 for High ISO shadow performance by about 2/3 stop.


Not surprising. Low iso DR has been about the same for at least 6 years in Canon DSLR's. Maybe longer. They have made good improvements in the high iso range (both in color, noise and dr) but the low iso has basically stayed the same with some models having more shadow banding than others. The 1DS Mark 3 has the least banding IMHO of the higher resolution Canon DSLRs.



Aug 30, 2013 at 01:57 AM
gocolts
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


Scott Stoness wrote:
Thats my conclusion:
- Aside from focussing during video, rotating lcd (if you want it and I don't for wildlife), and being able to set the low shutter on autoiso, the 7d is better or even. Particularly for wildlife.
- focus speed is about the same ( i tested it)
- 1fps better for 7d
- dot focus not in 70d [really big deal to me]
- no c1,c2,c3 [really big deal to me]
- sd limits 70d to 15 in burst with twice the time to clear buffer (I have tested) [really big deal to me]
- not as good weather sealing
- uses different remote
...Show more

I agree with the above, and with DSLR technology going the way it was a few years ago, if you would have told me that the 7D I bought in the fall of 2009 would be able to stand up, especially ISO-wise, to a brand new Canon crop-sensor 4 years later, I would have said no way. Maybe crop sensors have hit a technological wall for still shots, and the performance advancements really are going to be primarily in the full-frame market.

I realize this is all speculation with regards to a 7D2 someday, but I honestly thought the 70D was going to be good enough ISO-wise to tempt me from my 7D, at least for indoor shooting. From what I've seen so far, that isn't the case. Any my wife's SL1 and our EOS-M are fine for video needs.



Aug 30, 2013 at 02:28 AM
gabimaster
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


And the D7100's sensor is coming from Toshiba ,not Sony, which means that Canon is behind any sensor manufacturer you could think of for DR and Color Sensibility (Sony,Aptina,Toshiba,etc ). I hope that with the new patent that I've seen they showed to the public they can change that (starting with 7D MK2 ).


Aug 30, 2013 at 07:36 AM
skibum5
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


Not sure about horizontal banding yet, but vertical banding at ISO100 is certainly MUCH less than with the 7D (which was pretty bad in that regard).

Acutance likely appears to be better than the 7D (which was also a camera pretty weak in that regard). It seems like they didn't slit the greens in the CFA as badly as in the 7D so RAW converters do not need to mess around as much to avoid mazing artifacts so they can maintain higher acutance. They might have altered the AA filter strength too perhaps. Not 100% sure on this, but it seems likely to prove true that the acutance is a bit better than it had been on the 7D.

Not sure how it compares next to the 60D since I never really bothered looking into 60D IQ at all.



Aug 30, 2013 at 10:07 PM
artsupreme
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon EOS 70D DXOMark results


60D fail....70D fail....crop sensor rebadge mania.

The last impressive upgrade in the sensor department from Canon was the 5DII



Aug 31, 2013 at 03:18 AM
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