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Archive 2013 · Race to the bottom

  
 
longisland.km
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Race to the bottom


Seems the race to the mirrorless bottom has started and Sony fired the first shot...A3000 and kit lens for $399. Probably not the camera for most people on the board, but I know a few people that would find the IQ/price ratio compelling. I wonder about the effect on low end Rebel/EOS M pricing in the future.


Aug 27, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Access
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Race to the bottom


Hardly the first shot, micro four thirds has had cameras with starter lenses in the $200. or $300. range for at least the last year. Also the prices on the canon mirrorless has dropped pretty low.


Aug 27, 2013 at 01:19 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Race to the bottom


yeah that Sony is cheap , and good luck to them

but I must say from seeing the images of it I really dont get it . why when your taking the mirror and the opticle VF out of the equation do you really want something thats bigger than a SL1 ?
if its using the E mount of the Nex range (rather the A mount) then it can be thinner than that

Maybe they will attract buyers wanting a cheapie but I cant see them locking those buyers into the system because I cant see the target market buying lots of the expensive lenses .

Heck i do wonder how many Rebel buyers ever buy have more than the 1 kit lens that came with teir camera , and even then the 'other' lens is likely to be the EFs Tele .



Aug 27, 2013 at 01:37 PM
sirimiri
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Race to the bottom


To the bottom of what?


Aug 27, 2013 at 02:28 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Race to the bottom


sirimiri wrote:
To the bottom of what?


...and what's on the other side?



Aug 27, 2013 at 02:39 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Race to the bottom


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
but I must say from seeing the images of it I really dont get it . why when your taking the mirror and the opticle VF out of the equation do you really want something thats bigger than a SL1 ?
if its using the E mount of the Nex range (rather the A mount) then it can be thinner than that

I read recent research somewhere that camera consumers equate a DSLR body size/type with quality. So it might be that Sony is trying to appeal to that impression while still enjoying the production-cost savings of a MILC.



Aug 27, 2013 at 02:46 PM
corndog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Race to the bottom


sirimiri wrote:
To the bottom of what?


Pricing.

jcolwell wrote:
...and what's on the other side?


More gear.



Aug 27, 2013 at 03:01 PM
longisland.km
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Race to the bottom


corndog wrote:
Pricing.

More gear.


Hmm, I thought it might be bankruptcy for the smaller players.



Aug 27, 2013 at 03:09 PM
chez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Race to the bottom


longisland.km wrote:
Hmm, I thought it might be bankruptcy for the smaller players.


Yep, a common strategy. Big boys take out smaller fish by pricing them out of business.



Aug 27, 2013 at 03:14 PM
longisland.km
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Race to the bottom


Access wrote:
Hardly the first shot, micro four thirds has had cameras with starter lenses in the $200. or $300. range for at least the last year. Also the prices on the canon mirrorless has dropped pretty low.


This is a new camera with an introductory price of $399. Are you saying there were m43 cameras introduced at the $200 or $300 price point? I didn't notice them being that low.

Or are you referring to the closeout, "dump all the unsold inventory" sales that have been happening with the Canon EOS M, the Nikon V1, the Panasonic GX1, etc?

While they are all going to be in the market at the same time, the mindset of the companies are not really directly comparable since their introductory prices were much higher.



Aug 27, 2013 at 03:19 PM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Race to the bottom


I don't necessarily see this as an anti-competitive move. It's probably just to bring more people into the Sony system and give them a stepping stone to more profitable gear down the road.


Aug 27, 2013 at 03:29 PM
M Lucca
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Race to the bottom


I seem to have the feeling that these days Sony is just throwing things at the wall and see what sticks. I suppose that they can since they are such a juggernaut.




Aug 27, 2013 at 03:30 PM
Photon
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Race to the bottom


M Lucca wrote:
I seem to have the feeling that these days Sony is just throwing things at the wall and see what sticks. I suppose that they can since they are such a juggernaut.


Yeah, and just like spaghetti, if it does stick you've got a mess.
Actually I have no idea what Sony's plan is, and don't really care, but lower prices are generally a good trend.



Aug 27, 2013 at 03:47 PM
Access
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Race to the bottom


longisland.km wrote:
Or are you referring to the closeout, "dump all the unsold inventory" sales that have been happening with the Canon EOS M, the Nikon V1, the Panasonic GX1, etc?

While they are all going to be in the market at the same time, the mindset of the companies are not really directly comparable since their introductory prices were much higher.

But this 'mindset of the companies' is not what the actual consumer sees. It's only the (low) price when they set out to actually buy (or consider buying) a system.

In fact I would say that economic pressure is a far more powerful and effective force than the will of corporate leadership. In other words the former has pushed prices down far more then the latter.



Aug 27, 2013 at 05:45 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Race to the bottom


Sony's huge problem at the moment if they abandon A mount and go entirely mirrorless and I believe this is happening next year, is they have very ordinary CDAF. They have introduced a hybrid AF in the NEX 5R, but it it's still nothing special and certainly not good enough for fast servo work. SO unless they have a massive surprise up their sleeve on the AF front, it's a an ill-timed move. Cannot see the mirrorless version of the A77 replacement being competitive at all with cameras like the D7100, 70D and then there's the possibility of D400 and 7D II.

On the other hand the 3 new E mount lenses are nice, although looking at $1000 for the 16-70 f/4.



Aug 27, 2013 at 06:04 PM
chez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Race to the bottom


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Sony's huge problem at the moment if they abandon A mount and go entirely mirrorless and I believe this is happening next year, is they have very ordinary CDAF. They have introduced a hybrid AF in the NEX 5R, but it it's still nothing special and certainly not good enough for fast servo work. SO unless they have a massive surprise up their sleeve on the AF front, it's a an ill-timed move. Cannot see the mirrorless version of the A77 replacement being competitive at all with cameras like the D7100, 70D and then there's the possibility of D400
...Show more

But what is truly the audience for the mirrorless cameras? Is it the current DSLR crowd thst might need fast servo focus, or is it the crowd wanting something a little better than the phones, but don't want to lug around a DSLR. Maybe Sony does know it mirrorless market, and you are not part of it.



Aug 27, 2013 at 06:12 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Race to the bottom


Darn! I thought this was a Miley Cyrus thread!


Aug 27, 2013 at 06:16 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Race to the bottom


Gunzorro wrote:
Darn! I thought this was a Miley Cyrus thread!


Oh, snap!



Aug 27, 2013 at 06:25 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Race to the bottom


chez wrote:
But what is truly the audience for the mirrorless cameras? Is it the current DSLR crowd thst might need fast servo focus, or is it the crowd wanting something a little better than the phones, but don't want to lug around a DSLR. Maybe Sony does know it mirrorless market, and you are not part of it.


My point was (obvious) was they would be giving up on trying to compete against the Nikanon Juggernaut and will just go mirrorless and abandon pretensions of offering sporty cameras. Except for FF as it makes almost no sense as lenses will still be as large and all you will have saved is a few hundred grams on the camera body.

BTW they already have a mirrorless segment called the NEX so that market is already covered. Why offer a pretend DSLR on top of that?



Aug 27, 2013 at 06:29 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Race to the bottom


I think this is more Sony's answer to Samsung- who is actually a very big threat in the mirrorless market, even if they haven't really taken off in the states.

I'm not much of a Samsung fan (they always mess up something important), but their MILC system works, and they've shown that they're willing to bolt current-gen smartphone bits to them. The smartphone/tablet tech isn't slowing down anytime soon, so with competent sensors, Samsung will be a force to be reckoned with, and they're far more agile than geriatric Sony.



Aug 27, 2013 at 06:38 PM
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