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Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent
  
 
Paul Mo
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p.2 #1 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


jorkata wrote:
But maybe Canon is not interested in a high MPs body and/or high-FPS video camera.
They'd rather let Nikon and Sony have all the fun .



They are market leaders running a hugely successful corporation. In comparison to Canon as a collective, forum cretins are full of it.

People can complain all they like but the fact is some forum lurkers are spoilt brats who like nothing better than searching for information on the Internet to regurgitate on forums in an effort to appear smart - if they were as knowledgeable as they think they are then perhaps they'd be applying to work as engineers at Canon.

These cretins love to criticise and postulate with no concept of how stunning our image-making tech already is.

This is in defense of Canon for whom I have nothing but the greatest of respect.




Aug 28, 2013 at 02:00 AM
johnctharp
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p.2 #2 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Paul Mo wrote:
These cretins love to criticise and postulate with no concept of how stunning our image-making tech already is.

This is in defense of Canon for whom I have nothing but the greatest of respect.


And therein lies the point you missed- we're comparing the video taking quality to the image taking quality and calling bull. Video is a succession of still images, yet video taken from the most recently introduced members of Canon's DSLR line bears no resemblance to Canon's still image quality from camera's released over the last decade (or more).

Do you see where we're going with this? Doesn't it bother you that a ~20MP camera can't take decent 2MP video?



Aug 28, 2013 at 02:44 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #3 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


johnctharp wrote:
And therein lies the point you missed- we're comparing the video taking quality to the image taking quality and calling bull.


You might be caught up in video, but this is skibum5's thread so I'd refer to his first post which refers to DR in general. Or did you miss that?

johnctharp wrote:
Doesn't it bother you that a ~20MP camera can't take decent 2MP video?


Not really. I bought my 5D3 as a stills camera. Being able to turn the dial and shoot video is nice, but I still have an HV20 in use. For any serious video production I would look to a dedicated video camera such as this (among others):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733535-REG/Canon_4885B001_XF105_HD_Professional_Camcorder.html

This thread is about the possibility of a sensor with higher DR than is currently on offer. That naturally leads to criticism of Canon - rightly or wrongly.

And since none of us are sitting at the round table, we really have no clue about what's either in the pipeline or the realities of production now.



Aug 28, 2013 at 03:15 AM
johnctharp
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p.2 #4 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


The lack of DR bothers me- but having just tried to put the video capabilities to use, I'm far more disappointed.

We know that higher DR is available. That's not hard to believe; getting Canon to put it into production, if Canon even can, is the hard part.



Aug 28, 2013 at 04:08 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #5 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Paul Mo wrote:
This thread is about the possibility of a sensor with higher DR than is currently on offer. That naturally leads to criticism of Canon - rightly or wrongly.

And since none of us are sitting at the round table, we really have no clue about what's either in the pipeline or the realities of production now.


Two issues here: one Canon's still DR is limited by their technology, they are using archaic 500um process when the competition is at 180um and 250um. However their video quality is limited by their deliberate choices not to step on the toes of their high end offerings. Canon has a long long history of deliberate crippling of features to have clear market segmentation and while they have somewhat relented since they lost the clear leadership in IQ they used to have, these attitudes still run strong. Video is their new vision and they are moving aggressively to capture market share and nice juicy profits on their CXXX video gear.



Aug 28, 2013 at 05:41 AM
PeaktoPeek
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p.2 #6 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


And when Canon does put out a high MP body with 15+ stops of DR, I'm sure it will be in the $4000+ price range. Then they will drag out implementing the technology for prosumer and consumer cameras for at least a year until finally giving in to the demand. They will ultimately have the last laugh though, since the new lower end bodies will be crippled by something, like one cross type AF sensor or 3fps or something lame like that. In the end its going to be to little, to late. I loved my Canon gear, just not the way they string along their customers.


Aug 28, 2013 at 06:19 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #7 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


PeaktoPeek wrote:
And when Canon does put out a high MP body with 15+ stops of DR, I'm sure it will be in the $4000+ price range. Then they will drag out implementing the technology for prosumer and consumer cameras for at least a year until finally giving in to the demand. They will ultimately have the last laugh though, since the new lower end bodies will be crippled by something, like one cross type AF sensor or 3fps or something lame like that. In the end its going to be to little, to late. I loved my Canon gear, just not
...Show more

Sounds a bit too pessimistic to me and not in relation to more recent offerings. By your logic 5D III would never have received 1D X AF, 7D would never have arrived, dual pixel technology would not be on a mid range DSLR. The market has changed and they can no longer cripple cameras like they used to, when the competition beats them in IQ and features. Yeas there are still some annoying features missing, but this is true of other makes too.

Also it's not as though Canon Cameras aren't still excellent tools and they still have best lens line-up my far even though they haven't got best sensors.



Aug 28, 2013 at 06:25 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #8 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Canon has a long long history of deliberate crippling of features to have clear market segmentation and while they have somewhat relented since they lost the clear leadership in IQ they used to have...


I agree (meekly) and yet I'll dispute that. I know people suspect Canon are crippling gear, but in high-end broadcast video Canon is still relevant. Canon DSLR's are the most widely-used in all types of photography, including very demanding photojournalism. Canon has never been a player in cinema - it has been the preserve of Sony, Arri, et al and yet Canon are gaining ground there.

I would say Canon are doing an exceptional job of both holding and gaining market position.



Aug 28, 2013 at 07:10 AM
skibum5
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p.2 #9 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Paul Mo wrote:
I agree (meekly) and yet I'll dispute that. I know people suspect Canon are crippling gear, but in high-end broadcast video Canon is still relevant. Canon DSLR's are the most widely-used in all types of photography, including very demanding photojournalism. Canon has never been a player in cinema - it has been the preserve of Sony, Arri, et al and yet Canon are gaining ground there.

I would say Canon are doing an exceptional job of both holding and gaining market position.


Did you read the video and cinema boards when the 5D3 came out (if you think the mostly still oriented forums are harsh you should see how the serious video/cinema guys talk)? Did you notice the sales difference for the 5D3 pre and post ML for the 5D3 to that crowd?



Aug 28, 2013 at 07:19 AM
skibum5
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p.2 #10 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Paul Mo wrote:
You might be caught up in video, but this is skibum5's thread so I'd refer to his first post which refers to DR in general. Or did you miss that?

Not really. I bought my 5D3 as a stills camera. Being able to turn the dial and shoot video is nice, but I still have an HV20 in use. For any serious video production I would look to a dedicated video camera such as this (among others):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733535-REG/Canon_4885B001_XF105_HD_Professional_Camcorder.html

This thread is about the possibility of a sensor with higher DR than is currently on offer. That naturally leads to criticism of Canon
...Show more


why would you buy that video cam?



Aug 28, 2013 at 07:20 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Paul Mo
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p.2 #11 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


skibum5 wrote:
why would you buy that video cam?


Autofocus.



Aug 28, 2013 at 07:27 AM
MintMar
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p.2 #12 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Pixel Perfect wrote:
So the Sony and Nikon camera offer much much much faster fps I presume. The problem is you can only move the mirror so fast and already 12fps on FF is close to physical limits. Now they could go mirrorless, but again it doesn't matter how fast you dump data off the sensor if it is bottle necked elsewhere.


Quick sensor readout may be yet used with slowy moving mirror, I think, what about electronic shutters, original 1D's X-sync speed is still unrivalled after a decade in Canon land.



Aug 28, 2013 at 10:13 AM
PeaktoPeek
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p.2 #13 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Sounds a bit too pessimistic to me and not in relation to more recent offerings. By your logic 5D III would never have received 1D X AF, 7D would never have arrived, dual pixel technology would not be on a mid range DSLR. The market has changed and they can no longer cripple cameras like they used to, when the competition beats them in IQ and features. Yeas there are still some annoying features missing, but this is true of other makes too.

Also it's not as though Canon Cameras aren't still excellent tools and they still have best
...Show more

Perhaps on the technology side -- I would expect Canon to continue to push new tech out. But my beef is more related to the fact that perhaps they are taking advantage of consumers when it comes to pricing in respect to the features. I have no qualms with the assertion that Canon's lens line up is the most complete in existence, with many examples of top notch performance. But good grief, getting a lens to match up with the resolution of even the 20+ MP sensors seems to require some large cash. My 5D was okay with the 17-40, but I don't think that lens would hold up quite as well on the newer cameras. They have done great things with their recent lenses, including the upgraded non-L primes -- but they are just so expensive. I'm sure they will have a 17-40 II with class leading performance as well, but at $1000+. Its just tough on the non-pro to replace aging equipment at the premiums being charged. I waited for 5 long years to upgrade from a 5D and when the 5D III came out I was elated. Then I waited for the prices to come down and it just didn't happen and while the 6D is a fine camera on its own, it didn't represent the upgrade path for me. Sometimes I just want to say screw it and shoot film again -- then I remember how much of a pain that was too.



Aug 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #14 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Canon cannot be taking advantage of consumers. They don't hold up the customers and demand their money. If the prices were too high for what consumers were getting, the sales figures would drop precipitously. Don't blame Canon, blame all the people willing to pay for the cameras and features, namely all of us on the photography boards hyping up one body over another, sharing samples, feeding each others' gear acquisition syndromes, etc.

Really though, just like any other hobby, there are times you want the latest and greatest, and cannot afford it. You have to wait until 1) you build up the funds for it, 2) extend yourself on credit, or 3) wait for the used market to reach your budget. No different than cars, houses, watch collectors, guitar lovers, etc. Don't blame Canon, blame international markets, the value of the dollar, rising prices across the spectrum, and the lack of big organizations to manage debt to revenue ratios properly.



Aug 28, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Paul Mo
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p.2 #15 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


I agree. Our gear isn't cheap- even factoring in a calibration tool, quality monitor, et al, it still beats the total cost of having three enlargers running in the basement, buying bulk film from B&H, paper, chems, neg sleeves...

PeaktoPeek wrote:
...then I remember how much of a pain that was too.


Totally. And there were so many issues with film and printing when trying to get a clean gallery print. I mean it was fun but also very wasteful in environmental terms.



Aug 28, 2013 at 12:47 PM
MintMar
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p.2 #16 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


PeaktoPeek wrote:
Perhaps on the technology side -- I would expect Canon to continue to push new tech out. But my beef is more related to the fact that perhaps they are taking advantage of consumers when it comes to pricing in respect to the features. I have no qualms with the assertion that Canon's lens line up is the most complete in existence, with many examples of top notch performance. But good grief, getting a lens to match up with the resolution of even the 20+ MP sensors seems to require some large cash. My 5D was okay with the 17-40,
...Show more
[snip]
Agree. And some of the older offerings (categories) are no longer sold. Is there any non-L standard zoom for FF being manufactured by Canon? 6D is trying to be a "cheap" FF, but somehow I don't see any EF 24-85/3.5-4.5 USM II, not even 28-90 something being manufactured for it as a kit lens...

It's "premium or EF-S" now.



Aug 28, 2013 at 01:13 PM
PeaktoPeek
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p.2 #17 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


TeamSpeed wrote:
Canon cannot be taking advantage of consumers. They don't hold up the customers and demand their money. If the prices were too high for what consumers were getting, the sales figures would drop precipitously. Don't blame Canon, blame all the people willing to pay for the cameras and features, namely all of us on the photography boards hyping up one body over another, sharing samples, feeding each others' gear acquisition syndromes, etc.

Really though, just like any other hobby, there are times you want the latest and greatest, and cannot afford it. You have to wait until 1) you build
...Show more

I mis-worded that part, I meant to say that I felt like Canon was taking advantage of me. Fortunately, they don't demand loyalty and so I was free to pursue any brand I chose to. But, I was fortunate not to have thousands of dollars tied up in Canon gear. I have to think there are some people who feel like they are being held at bay because of the investment they have in gear, always waiting for that promised revolution that sometimes comes. I've learned my lesson from all these tech companies, never get too invested in any brand.



Aug 28, 2013 at 09:18 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #18 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


But even if I have thousands tied up in Canon gear (which I do), I don't ever expect 1) they will improve things later and those improved items will cost less and 2) that what I bought will be made better later by what Canon brings out.

My purchases of gear is a point-in-time event, and I expect what I buy at that time all would work to my expectations as a system, regardless of what the future brings. If the gear that is out at any given point cannot produce the results I need, then shame on me for buying it anyways. This is also why I buy 3rd party lenses, because I want gear that does what I need it to, regardless of brand.

In a nutshell what I buy now affects me now, and not later when Canon brings out new items. If I need better lenses, then I expect I will pay more for better lenses later. I use software to fill in the gaps where I don't get the results I want from the camera, its cheaper that way.



Aug 28, 2013 at 09:54 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #19 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Thanks for posting this skibum5.
It's just a patent and may never see production...but it gives us hope that Canon will start paying attention to DR.



Aug 29, 2013 at 01:42 AM
johnctharp
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p.2 #20 · Canon Files for Dual-Scale Column-Parallel ADC Patent


Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for posting this skibum5.
It's just a patent and may never see production...but it gives us hope that Canon will start paying attention to DR.


I'd bet they're already paying very close attention to DR- particularly by how much their current under-performance affects the bottom line versus incurring the cost of commercializing an improvement.

All I can say to that is this- be louder, Internet photo nerds! It's the squeaky wheel that gets greased!



Aug 29, 2013 at 01:45 AM
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