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Archive 2013 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant

  
 
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


California's coastal redwoods are extremely tall and heavy- and have shallow root systems- so heavy storms and wind sometime topple them.
Even in the moist climate where they live, they decay slowly because their bark (especially) is resistant to decay, insects, etc.

Oh- here's the correct answer to the old philosophical conundrum: "When a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one there to hear it- does it make a sound?"
The answer is "No."
Easily understandable when you realize it's a simple matter of science, and not philosophy, and after you define the correct meaning of "sound."




Charlie Shugart 2013

A Tree Fell in the Redwoods




Aug 15, 2013 at 09:54 PM
Karl Witt
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Geeesh Charlie and there appears an image of young gal somewhat like and Indian face on that bright tree base!

That is one large tree to fall..............I didn't hear a 'sound'

Karl



Aug 15, 2013 at 09:57 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Charlie Shugart wrote:
Oh- here's the correct answer to the old philosophical conundrum: "When a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one there to hear it- does it make a sound?"
The answer is "No."
Easily understandable when you realize it's a simple matter of science, and not philosophy, and after you define the correct meaning of "sound."


hmm gotta disagree with that! what in the world definition of sound are you using?



Aug 15, 2013 at 10:55 PM
KCollett
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Those forests are soooo cool. When it toppled, I'm sure it made a sound audible to all the critters living in and around it that have auditory systems. Do "sound" waves cease to exist if a diaphragm (or equivalent) vibrates due to those waves, but is not connected to a sentient being's brain? Now you've started a big debate Charlie! Next you'll post a pic of a chicken and an egg!


Aug 15, 2013 at 11:12 PM
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


I will not try to defend my silly pov just yet .
Charlie



Aug 15, 2013 at 11:17 PM
sdgnh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Beautiful shot Charlie!
Nancy



Aug 16, 2013 at 01:20 AM
surfnron
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


I have to disagree too Charlie, but I do await your "defense" with baited breath... ~ Ron


Aug 16, 2013 at 06:05 AM
Plinian
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Well, I don't have a strong opinion about whether a transient disturbance in air pressure requires a neural response to constitute a sound, but it is very reassuring to know that there are still some slides in Charlie's closet!

(By the way, this is a lovely image). ~Greg



Aug 16, 2013 at 06:27 AM
Ted ellis
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


surfnron wrote:
I have to disagree too Charlie, but I do await your "defense" with baited breath... ~ Ron


There is a yes answer and a no answer Ron. As written, the answer is

Very nice shot Charlie. Where in California? Central coast?



Aug 16, 2013 at 07:14 AM
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Thanks, guys.
There are many "mini" redwood forests in California- but I usually stop at those in the north, starting with Richardson Grove and running almost to the Oregon border. My favorites are along Old Highway 101 because all through traffic is taking the bypass freeway and those groves are very quiet.
This shot was taken in one of those groves along the old highway.

About the conundrum: I'm just having some fun with it, of course; I won't go to the mat in defense of my statement .
But briefly, here is my defense:
When a tree falls, it sends vibrations through the air (and through the ground).
When a "listening device," i.e. recorder, regular animal or human animal hears it, we call the vibrations "sound." (Wild animals call it "Unnhhh?" )
Forgetting about recording devices and animals for the moment- if there are no people around the vibrations remain as just vibrations- with nothing to convert them into sound.
Hence the answer to the question is "No."
Again- just having some fun .
Charlie



Aug 16, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Tim Kuhn
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Sound is why I don't like those fangled talkies. If I opened this up at work and heard a redwood falling my boss would know I don't do anything all day!!

I love spending time in the redwoods, one of my favorite places to spend time, hike, take pictures and think. When I come across a giant like this that has fallen it makes me stop and think about what it must have been like to witness the crash. It has to be a life changing experience. Your shot of the fallen giant makes step back and think about the redwoods. Man I want to go back. Thanks for the thought provoking shot Charlie.

Tim



Aug 16, 2013 at 02:47 PM
Ted ellis
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Charlie Shugart wrote:
Thanks, guys.
There are many "mini" redwood forests in California- but I usually stop at those in the north, starting with Richardson Grove and running almost to the Oregon border. My favorites are along Old Highway 101 because all through traffic is taking the bypass freeway and those groves are very quiet.
This shot was taken in one of those groves along the old highway.

About the conundrum: I'm just having some fun with it, of course; I won't go to the mat in defense of my statement .
But briefly, here is my defense:
When a tree falls, it sends vibrations through the
...Show more


Charlie:

I lived in Santa Cruz, CA 20+ years. Lots of Redwood trees. In fact, I had a rock and roll band named Redwood (1973-78). I'm in the picture . I heard the tree fall.

Ted







Aug 16, 2013 at 03:51 PM
birdied
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Having never seen the Redwoods, love this shot.

Birdie



Aug 16, 2013 at 04:16 PM
BeeBalm
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Charlie,
That's one big tree!
I have seen Sequoias in Yosemite NP! They were very big to me!
But unfortunately my ladder would not reach
Nice capture!
TFS
BeeBalm



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:54 PM
ScottHM
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Nice shot Charlie..sort of reminds me of the areas I was hiking this past week...One thing you forgot about the idea of sound though...there are plenty of other animals in those forests when the tree falls with the ability to perceive it.

Ted, if I was to hazard a guess...you're the guy in the back? Must've been a bass player too



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:56 PM
Ted ellis
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


ScottHM wrote:
Nice shot Charlie..sort of reminds me of the areas I was hiking this past week...One thing you forgot about the idea of sound though...there are plenty of other animals in those forests when the tree falls with the ability to perceive it.

Ted, if I was to hazard a guess...you're the guy in the back? Must've been a bass player too


No the pretty one in front.

Ted



Aug 16, 2013 at 07:59 PM
Charlie Shugart
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Again thanks, guys and dolls ().
Birdie- there are four things in the American west that are so intrinsically important and wonderful that every American should visit each at least once: Grand Canyon. Yosemite Valley. A redwood forest. Yellowstone's geo-thermals. (There are many other places in the US that can be people's favorites, true- but these four are so unique and exceptional that they should be on EVERY American's to-do list.) (IMO )
Ted- I was going to guess the pretty one with the Afro, but I guess you're the REALLY pretty one with the long hair?

Conundrum- more fun chatter :
I could have stipulated that there were no animals of ANY kind- but I didn't want to get that picky ().
Also, I don't know about the true "hearing" ability of insects and other under-the-earth creatures; do they all have some sort of ears? For sure they would all feel the vibrations of a nearby 300-foot redwood pounding against the ground. However, to me that's not true sound, but it IS "feel."
Then there's the whole question of "feeling" but not hearing vibrations.
When some cars drive by my home with their "tunes" at full tilt, I can tell they are approaching before I see them or hear their music. The bass on some are so powerful that it rhythmically compresses my front windows like the skin of a drum, and I "feel" the compression (sound?) several seconds before I hear it. And yes, I have good hearing (good enough to hear Ron snickering as he reads this ).
So- what does all this have to do with anything?
Hell- I don't know. But I'm having a grand time .
Charlie



Aug 16, 2013 at 09:02 PM
Ted ellis
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Redwoods----A Fallen Giant


Charlie Shugart wrote:
Again thanks, guys and dolls ().
Birdie- there are four things in the American west that are so intrinsically important and wonderful that every American should visit each at least once: Grand Canyon. Yosemite Valley. A redwood forest. Yellowstone's geo-thermals. (There are many other places in the US that can be people's favorites, true- but these four are so unique and exceptional that they should be on EVERY American's to-do list.) (IMO )
Ted- I was going to guess the pretty one with the Afro, but I guess you're the REALLY pretty one with the long hair?

Conundrum- more fun chatter :
I
...Show more

The pretty one with the Afro Charlie!



Aug 19, 2013 at 04:52 PM





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