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Water Drop Reflection Help
  
 
oldrattler
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p.1 #1 · Water Drop Reflection Help


I need some Water Drop Reflection Help! I am attempting to learn but so far all I see in the drop is smeared colors. Would you be kind enough to share your technique. Thank you, Jim


Aug 15, 2013 at 06:09 PM
Justin Huffman
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p.1 #2 · Water Drop Reflection Help


How are you lighting the drops? Id start with your shutter speed. Try to lower the ambient light and shoot at least 250 or even 1/500. adjust power from your lights to taste. Flash output is your shutter speed in the sense that it is really painting the picture with its delivery speed. If your ambient light is strong, it will blur the crisp water droplets as its painting light on those edges after the flash has delivered its power.

As a side note, if your bound to 1/250 or even lower based on e/iTTL or whatever system your using, black out the ambient light or shoot at night to guarantee ambient light isnt flooding the image.



Aug 16, 2013 at 12:30 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #3 · Water Drop Reflection Help


It is not clear to me exactly what you are wanting, but I will briefly describe one thing I have done. Use a piece of clear glass, and prep it with windshield treatment that makes water bead up to get larger drops. Support the glass horizontally so that you can put objects under it. Choose something interesting as your subject, like a flower or other colorful thing, and put it under the glass a few inches below. Then spray on some water to get many droplets that are beaded up. The size and number of drops is a factor, and you want middle sized or large drops. Try different spray bottles until you get one that does what you want. Each droplet should have an image of your subject showing in the drop, with each image formed by each drop that kind of acts like a fisheye lens. Experiment with how far under the glass your subject is, and with lighting angles and camera position, then shoot the drops as a macro, to show lots and lots of images of your subject. It is usually best to shoot at a slight angle to the glass, and not directly perpendicular to it, to avoid reflections. Also avoid light hitting the top of the glass, and direct the light only at your subject and its background, again to avoid reflections in the glass. You can also experiment with the background under the subject, and consider it being a color rather than black. You can also try multiple subjects, which show up as multiple subjects in each drop.

If that is not what you are trying to do, please explain fully what you want. If you are trying to freeze water drop motion, that is a whole other subject, and the key to short flash durations is to use manual power mode on a speed light, and set it to very low power, which gives very short flash durations. Then as mentioned, remove or control ambient light so that the flash is the only light on the moving subject.



Aug 16, 2013 at 04:05 PM
Ho1972
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p.1 #4 · Water Drop Reflection Help


If you're trying to freeze the drops, I've done that exactly once. This is what worked for me.



















Focal Length 90 mm
Exposure Time 1/250 sec
Aperture f/14
ISO Equivalent 200



Aug 16, 2013 at 04:10 PM
oldrattler
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p.1 #5 · Water Drop Reflection Help


Justin Huffman wrote:
How are you lighting the drops? Id start with your shutter speed. Try to lower the ambient light and shoot at least 250 or even 1/500. adjust power from your lights to taste. Flash output is your shutter speed in the sense that it is really painting the picture with its delivery speed. If your ambient light is strong, it will blur the crisp water droplets as its painting light on those edges after the flash has delivered its power.

As a side note, if your bound to 1/250 or even lower based on e/iTTL or whatever system your using,
...Show more

Justin; I initally tried with ambient light, then got out the 580 II. So far all I have gotten is OOF or a color smudge in the drop. I have not tried much as I felt lost. Thank you, Jim



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:09 PM
oldrattler
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p.1 #6 · Water Drop Reflection Help


Roland W wrote:
It is not clear to me exactly what you are wanting, but I will briefly describe one thing I have done. Use a piece of clear glass, and prep it with windshield treatment that makes water bead up to get larger drops. Support the glass horizontally so that you can put objects under it. Choose something interesting as your subject, like a flower or other colorful thing, and put it under the glass a few inches below. Then spray on some water to get many droplets that are beaded up. The size and number of drops is a factor,
...Show more

Roland; You have answered perfectly. I am attempting to freeze water drops, splashes, & produce reflections / refraction in standing water drops. You have been very helpful. Thank you, Jim



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:14 PM
oldrattler
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p.1 #7 · Water Drop Reflection Help


Ho1972 wrote:
If you're trying to freeze the drops, I've done that exactly once. This is what worked for me.

http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/138221709/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/132022267/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/132022285/large.jpg

Focal Length 90 mm
Exposure Time 1/250 sec
Aperture f/14
ISO Equivalent 200


This is one of the things I am attempting. Thank you for posting. Jim



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:17 PM
 

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Roland W
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p.1 #8 · Water Drop Reflection Help


I have yet to do freezing of splashes, but it is on my list. But I do know about using speed lights to freeze motion, and the manual power at low can work well. The catch is that you need to get the speed lights close to the subject, so that you have enough light available. In the case of water splashing, that should work out.

I had not really thought before about doing water splash freezing, and at the same time putting a subject behind to allow the drop or drops to image a subject. That does sound interesting and fun, but perhaps a little difficult. I suggest you master the standing drops first if you can, and then apply what you have learned to a splashing drop situation. And a lot of what I have seen before for drop splashing shots is kind of monochrome, but there is nothing to prevent you from coloring the water pool one color with a gel over a light source, and then coloring the splashed drops with another color with a colored light source, and having the background be another color, and then if you image a subject, making that another color. Lots of options to consider.

Thank you for the idea of combining splashing of drops with using drops to image a subject. It may not be new to lots of people, but it had never occurred to me. I now have another thing on my list of projects to explore.



Aug 16, 2013 at 05:28 PM
oldrattler
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p.1 #9 · Water Drop Reflection Help


Roland W wrote:
I have yet to do freezing of splashes, but it is on my list. But I do know about using speed lights to freeze motion, and the manual power at low can work well. The catch is that you need to get the speed lights close to the subject, so that you have enough light available. In the case of water splashing, that should work out.

I had not really thought before about doing water splash freezing, and at the same time putting a subject behind to allow the drop or drops to image a subject. That does sound interesting
...Show more

Photography is ever evolving if one wishes to explore. In my youth it was sports & children, Then cars, motorcycles & studio stuff. Now old ages is creeping up so I am always looking for something to do on those "not up to snuff / poor weather days". If you get a chance take a look at "Happy Smurf" in WA forum. Also El Camino in the MA. I am enjoying retirement. Thank you, Jim



Aug 16, 2013 at 06:27 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · Water Drop Reflection Help


I've never tried the freeze drop shot, but the point at using a strobe at low power is likely critical as an IGBT circuitry strobe has a shorter flash duration at lower power. However, if you have too much ambient contributing to the scene, the amount of ambient will allow for motion blur to be recorded from the ambient light.

The point @ flash to subject distance for exposure with such low power is pertinent as well. I may have to give a go at this classic shot myself, as I've never tried one. I don't think you are going to be using a studio monolight, but just in case ... the flash duration for studio monolights actually gets longer when you lower the power (sounds odd, I know), since they are NOT IGBT circuitry (except for the Einstein). Just something to consider if you were to try this with studio monolights.

Pack & Head systems however do also have shorter flash durations (i.e. get faster) with lower power (iirc), but please correct me if I'm mistaken @ pack/head power/duration relationship.



Aug 17, 2013 at 03:31 PM
oldrattler
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p.1 #11 · Water Drop Reflection Help


RustyBug wrote:
I've never tried the freeze drop shot, but the point at using a strobe at low power is likely critical as an IGBT circuitry strobe has a shorter flash duration at lower power. However, if you have too much ambient contributing to the scene, the amount of ambient will allow for motion blur to be recorded from the ambient light.

The point @ flash to subject distance for exposure with such low power is pertinent as well. I may have to give a go at this classic shot myself, as I've never tried one. I don't think you are going to
...Show more

Thanks Kent. I was gping to try it outside but if there is too much light I will move in to the studio. Good information. Again, thank you, Jim



Aug 17, 2013 at 05:43 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #12 · Water Drop Reflection Help


If you're shooting outside, you'll be more dependent upon your shutter speed to freeze motion. Sunny 16 @ ISO 800 would be 1/800 @ f16 or 1/3200 @ f8, so you can probably get high enough shutter outside, and still be clean with some DOF. Not sure what speed you'll need to be at to freeze things though ... just thinking out loud.


Aug 17, 2013 at 06:49 PM
rico
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p.1 #13 · Water Drop Reflection Help


RustyBug wrote:
Pack & Head systems however do also have shorter flash durations (i.e. get faster) with lower power (iirc), but please correct me if I'm mistaken @ pack/head power/duration relationship.

You are correct. Packs are faster at low power because energy can be divided at the source (pack) or before the destination (head) by pack-specific means. All packs can use a subset of the capacitors in a maneuver called bank switching. A full discharge would use all capacitors and you must wait for that entire charge to go down the cable. Some packs have two or more "channels" and the source charge is divided. Then, splitter cables can further divide charge among multiple heads. Some arithmetic is needed to determine the distribution outcome. Note that modern packs modulate energy between bank-switching steps by use of a varistor, so those intermediate settings are incrementally slower (and with warmer color temp).

So, Profoto Acute2 w/1200J achieves smallest and shortest discharge of 75J per head by splitting A/B channels (for -1 EV), by bank switching (-2 EV), and by using two heads on channel B (-1 EV). Varistor with -2 EV is not used. I own the single-outlet AcuteB w/600J and it achieves smallest and shortest discharge of 18J with bank switching (-4 EV) and a cable splitter (-1 EV). Unlike the Acute2, the AcuteB bank-selects in 2-stop increments, so use of the (-2 EV) varistor is more likely in actual shooting.



Aug 18, 2013 at 09:20 AM
oldrattler
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p.1 #14 · Water Drop Reflection Help


rico wrote:
You are correct. Packs are faster at low power because energy can be divided at the source (pack) or before the destination (head) by pack-specific means. All packs can use a subset of the capacitors in a maneuver called bank switching. A full discharge would use all capacitors and you must wait for that entire charge to go down the cable. Some packs have two or more "channels" and the source charge is divided. Then, splitter cables can further divide charge among multiple heads. Some arithmetic is needed to determine the distribution outcome. Note that modern packs modulate
...Show more

Kent / Rico, I can not thank you enough for the information. Thank you, Jim



Aug 18, 2013 at 09:33 PM





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