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Archive 2013 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D
  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


14-stop

A few weeks ago, Magic Lantern announced 14 stops of dynamic range for the Canon EOS 5D Mark III and Canon EOS 7D. At the time, it was uncertain if other cameras could benefit from this.
Today Magic Lantern just tweeted that they were able to add the same 14-stop in dynamic range for the Canon EOS 5D Mark II and the Canon EOS 6D.

"Dual ISO" works by increasing 3-stops dynamic range using a breakthrough technique which basically combines an image at ISO 100 for some of the vertical lines and another at ISO 1600 for the rest of it. When mixing these two, one can get almost the entire dynamic range the sensor is capable of (around 14 stops).

Read more on Dual ISO working with the Canon 6D at magiclantern.com

Read Dual ISO technical PDF file



Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


Thanks Fred!

Sounds very interesting.

What is the cost of ML? Are there downsides to installing, let's say on a 5D2? Can the camera still be worked on by Canon CPS, or does the installed firmware make the body into a bandit?



Aug 12, 2013 at 05:58 PM
Hawkan
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


Gunzorro wrote:
What is the cost of ML? Are there downsides to installing, let's say on a 5D2? Can the camera still be worked on by Canon CPS, or does the installed firmware make the body into a bandit?


Magic Lantern is donationware. You do not "install" the firmware. It loads off of the CF card (or SD, in case of the 6D). This can make wakeup from sleep take a little longer, but other than that, you do not actually modify your camera. The software runs on top of Canon's camera firmware.

CPS or any other type of Canon shop can work on your camera without problems after you have used it - but perhaps it is wise to remove the CF/SD card with Magic Lantern on it before you drop your camera off at CPS.



Aug 12, 2013 at 07:10 PM
a.RodriguezPix
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


Fred Miranda wrote:
A few weeks ago, Magic Lantern announced 14 stops of dynamic range for the Canon EOS 5D Mark III and Canon EOS 7D. At the time, it was uncertain if other cameras could benefit from this.
Today Magic Lantern just tweeted that they were able to add the same 14-stop in dynamic range for the Canon EOS 5D Mark II and the Canon EOS 6D.

"Dual ISO" works by increasing 3-stops dynamic range using a breakthrough technique which basically combines an image at ISO 100 for some of the vertical lines and another at ISO 1600 for the rest of
...Show more



what does it mean? 14-stop Dual ISO



Aug 12, 2013 at 07:11 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


Hawkan wrote:
Magic Lantern is donationware. You do not "install" the firmware. It loads off of the CF card (or SD, in case of the 6D). This can make wakeup from sleep take a little longer, but other than that, you do not actually modify your camera. The software runs on top of Canon's camera firmware.

CPS or any other type of Canon shop can work on your camera without problems after you have used it - but perhaps it is wise to remove the CF/SD card with Magic Lantern on it before you drop your camera off at CPS.


So, you have to keep a fresh copy of ML on any CF or SD card? What about reformatting the card?

I always thought it changed or altered the Canon firmware, voiding any Canon warranty.



Aug 12, 2013 at 07:17 PM
adamo99
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


Any benefit to photo only users? The ML firmware (to me) appears to be targeted primarily to video users.


Aug 12, 2013 at 07:29 PM
mttran
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


adamo99 wrote:
Any benefit to photo only users? The ML firmware (to me) appears to be targeted primarily to video users.


+1, i have the same question - can the ML firmware takes care this 5D2 DR still issue?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/9481774519_b70bf3254d_h.jpg

I don't expect ML patch to cover the whole range but can ML gives us better controlled noise while lifting the shadows (assumed using the brightest spot to meter in this case) ?


Edited on Aug 13, 2013 at 02:45 AM · View previous versions



Aug 12, 2013 at 09:10 PM
dfresh
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


a.RodriguezPix wrote:
what does it mean? 14-stop Dual ISO


Explanation of Dual ISO:
http://acoutts.com/a1ex/dual_iso.pdf



Aug 12, 2013 at 09:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


dfresh wrote:
Explanation of Dual ISO:
http://acoutts.com/a1ex/dual_iso.pdf


Thanks!
Great info. I added the PDF to the original post.



Aug 12, 2013 at 09:54 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


I'm still waiting for a single stable build for the 6D; but I'm inching closer to trying my hand at 'compiling' one of the later builds and playing with it.

Just haven't taken the time to figure it all out yet .

(for the record, ML only has stable builds for a small selection of cameras, and the 5D III and 7D aren't on that list yet either)



Aug 12, 2013 at 10:57 PM
 

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surf monkey
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


I'm a bit confused on the availability of the ML firmware and was hoping some could explain it to me or direct me to the place on their website that has the answers.

There are several cameras that it is "stable" on, but others in "alpha".
In regards to the 5D3 and 7D, can I use the alpha now or is this for testing only?
Is the increased DR part of the current v2.3 release?
Are these only announcements or are they ready for use?

I have so many questions but I'll start with these. Thanks in advance.



Aug 13, 2013 at 12:53 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
I'm a bit confused on the availability of the ML firmware and was hoping some could explain it to me or direct me to the place on their website that has the answers.

There are several cameras that it is "stable" on, but others in "alpha".
In regards to the 5D3 and 7D, can I use the alpha now or is this for testing only?
Is the increased DR part of the current v2.3 release?
Are these only announcements or are they ready for use?

I have so many questions but I'll start with these. Thanks in advance.


You can use the pre-alpha stuff. Someone is posting compilations of the updates for the 5D3 every few days (or more) that you can directly use. I haven't looked into this dual ISO stuff at all. But man it adds so many critical video usability features and RAW video which is a complete revolution (it also almost seems to hint that Canon applies Gaussian blur and DR elimination stages in their late stage video pipeline to protect their high-end video gear. I mean probably not, but something sure goes wrong somewhere along the way.) and RAW histograms for video or still.

I've used it for months now and it's been awesome. Took 360GB of video in CA just now .



Aug 13, 2013 at 12:57 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
I'm a bit confused on the availability of the ML firmware and was hoping some could explain it to me or direct me to the place on their website that has the answers.

There are several cameras that it is "stable" on, but others in "alpha".
In regards to the 5D3 and 7D, can I use the alpha now or is this for testing only?
Is the increased DR part of the current v2.3 release?
Are these only announcements or are they ready for use?

I have so many questions but I'll start with these. Thanks in advance.


http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6362.msg49481#msg49481

lourenco 5D3 post

(and at the moment this is the latest 5D3 build he put up: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7QlH_BH2m32RlVtelMwTTYtclU&usp=sharing
click on the magic lantern aug 6th black down arrow to download the zip package)


Edited on Aug 13, 2013 at 01:01 AM · View previous versions



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:00 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
I'm a bit confused on the availability of the ML firmware and was hoping some could explain it to me or direct me to the place on their website that has the answers.

There are several cameras that it is "stable" on, but others in "alpha".
In regards to the 5D3 and 7D, can I use the alpha now or is this for testing only?
Is the increased DR part of the current v2.3 release?
Are these only announcements or are they ready for use?

I have so many questions but I'll start with these. Thanks in advance.

skibum5 wrote:
You can use the pre-alpha stuff. Someone is posting compilations of the updates for the 5D3 every few days (or more) that you can directly use. I haven't looked into this dual ISO stuff at all. But man it adds so many critical video usability features and RAW video which is a complete revolution (it also almost seems to hint that Canon applies Gaussian blur and DR elimination stages in their late stage video pipeline to protect their high-end video gear. I mean probably not, but something sure goes wrong somewhere along the way.) and RAW histograms for video
...Show more

Yes, the video capabilities are so good that it is puzzling why Canon doesn't have most of those features already built-in. The guys at ML are amazing.

One more dumb question: Is the Alpha stuff built into the v2.3 firmware or is it an add-on (and if so how do you use it?)?



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:00 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
Yes, the video capabilities are so good that it is puzzling why Canon doesn't have most of those features already built-in. The guys at ML are amazing.

One more dumb question: Is the Alpha stuff built into the v2.3 firmware or is it an add-on (and if so how do you use it?)?


All ML is add-on. It is just adds in functions or replaces functions (by changing where the function call points point I assume) in the original firmware. It basically makes the loaded load it at boot and it sets the needed hooks and stuff and then loads the regular firmware. It runs on top. It doesn't replace anything inside the camera ever (some versions can change stored non-volative data values, which is the only potential bad point, but there are ways to reset even those to default, most ML functions don't even touch that stuff at all).

The original firmware is always in the camera and is never touched or modified or removed.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:05 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


You also need RAW2DNG and to prepare the SD card for booting.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:07 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
I'm a bit confused on the availability of the ML firmware and was hoping some could explain it to me or direct me to the place on their website that has the answers.

There are several cameras that it is "stable" on, but others in "alpha".
In regards to the 5D3 and 7D, can I use the alpha now or is this for testing only?
Is the increased DR part of the current v2.3 release?
Are these only announcements or are they ready for use?

I have so many questions but I'll start with these. Thanks in advance.

skibum5 wrote:
You can use the pre-alpha stuff. Someone is posting compilations of the updates for the 5D3 every few days (or more) that you can directly use. I haven't looked into this dual ISO stuff at all. But man it adds so many critical video usability features and RAW video which is a complete revolution (it also almost seems to hint that Canon applies Gaussian blur and DR elimination stages in their late stage video pipeline to protect their high-end video gear. I mean probably not, but something sure goes wrong somewhere along the way.) and RAW histograms for video
...Show more
surf monkey wrote:
Yes, the video capabilities are so good that it is puzzling why Canon doesn't have most of those features already built-in. The guys at ML are amazing.

One more dumb question: Is the Alpha stuff built into the v2.3 firmware or is it an add-on (and if so how do you use it?)?

skibum5 wrote:
All ML is add-on. It is just adds in functions or replaces functions (by changing where the function call points point I assume) in the original firmware. It basically makes the loaded load it at boot and it sets the needed hooks and stuff and then loads the regular firmware. It runs on top. It doesn't replace anything inside the camera ever (some versions can change stored non-volative data values, which is the only potential bad point, but there are ways to reset even those to default, most ML functions don't even touch that stuff at all).

The original firmware is
...Show more

Sorry, I think I worded my query incorrectly.

I was asking if the alphas and the nightly builds are add-ons to the ML v2.3.
I've used ML on my 5D2, so I understand how the "standard" firmware update works, but I'm confused in regards to features such as the increased DR and alphas for the 5D3 and 7D.

How do those work?

Thanks again.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:15 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
Sorry, I think I worded my query incorrectly.

I was asking if the alphas and the nightly builds are add-ons to the ML v2.3.
I've used ML on my 5D2, so I understand how the "standard" firmware update works, but I'm confused in regards to features such as the increased DR and alphas for the 5D3 and 7D.

How do those work?

Thanks again.


Technically I suppose they are add-ons to the main code base at this point.

Anyway whatever the case, with the 5D3 link above, just use the ML download and then once it has loaded go to Load Modules and then it will load the RAW Video and Dual ISO and other added-on modules. So it's part of that distribution but as add on modules that have to be told to load once ML loads.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:21 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


skibum5 wrote:
Technically I suppose they are add-ons to the main code base at this point.

Anyway whatever the case, with the 5D3 link above, just use the ML download and then once it has loaded go to Load Modules and then it will load the RAW Video and Dual ISO and other added-on modules. So it's part of that distribution but as add on modules that have to be told to load once ML loads.


Perfect, thanks.
The reason I included all my questions here was my suspicion that there might be others out there that would benefit with some of the answers that the experienced ML users might provide.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone who's commented on Canon's lack of DR wouldn't try this.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:31 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Magic Lantern adds 14-stop Dual ISO for EOS 6D


surf monkey wrote:
Frankly, I don't see how anyone who's commented on Canon's lack of DR wouldn't try this.


The very original version of it that I saw had really nasty aliasing and moire. It seems things are a bit cleaned-up now, but I still think that some stuff will be sub-optimal other than the DR but I guess it might be worth it now at times. Have to test it to see if wonky banding and so on happens or not.



Aug 13, 2013 at 01:33 AM
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