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Archive 2013 · VSCO Film 04 is out

  
 
joelconner
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · VSCO Film 04 is out


dmacmillan wrote:
I think VSCO does a good job overall, but I have a gripe regarding their B&W as practiced....


This is my main gripe with VSCO as well. I am not sure when, but at some point, the overly faded, desaturated, "muddy" look became associated with what film looks like. I personally do like the look when it is done well, but most of the films they have done where they have had the overly faded look, the only way the film looks that way is when you have incredibly expired film or if (and I think this was their mindset) you are intentionally "mis-treating" the film to get that look. As I said, I personally like the look when done well. One of my favorite rolls of film I ever shot was a roll of Kodak Gold that was about 7 years expired and had a wicked color shift along with the fading. But, that is not the "normal". Granted, their third film set does fall in this category, since most of the instant films in that pack have that feel to them.

I am curious what you think about their standard B&W presets...not the faded ones. Personally, I love them and think they look great. I should probably take it back when I say I do not really use vsco stuff in my wedding work. All of my b&w's now are built on the vsco's tri-x or fp-3000b base.

Edited on Aug 09, 2013 at 09:20 AM · View previous versions



Aug 09, 2013 at 08:53 AM
cordellwillis
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · VSCO Film 04 is out


dmacmillan wrote:
The question is how close does VSCO and other products get to a traditional film look.

I think VSCO does a good job overall, but I have a gripe regarding their B&W as practiced. I've been shooting B&W since the 1960's, including professionally. I spent considerable time, including formal training at the school where the Zone System was codified, trying to achieve the best possible results. What I see that passes for "B&W" is a look that came from bad exposure, bad processing and bad printing. Often the highlights are grayed in a way that looks like safelight fog and
...Show more


I get what you're saying, but isn't all of this subjective? People can use the same b&w negative and come up with totally different looks using the same chemicals and papers. What you have here is VSCO's perception....that YOU can even tweak to look the way YOU want.



Aug 09, 2013 at 08:58 AM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · VSCO Film 04 is out


joelconner wrote:
I am curious what you think about their standard B&W presets...not the faded ones. Personally, I love them and think they look great. I should probably take it back when I say I do not really use vsco stuff in my wedding work. All of my b&w's now are built on the vsco's tri-x or fp-3000b base.


I can't comment because I don't use VSCO. I use NIK products instead. I find NIK SilverEfex Pro 2 very effective. I particularly like the fact you can set control points and change the brightness, contrast and structure (similar to sharpness) in a very controlled manner. In the photo below there's at least 8 different control points:



The complete NIK suite has been drastically reduced in price. It's now just $149. If you've never used their add ins, you might want to give them a whirl. I like the fact you can use them in Photoshop as layers. I've gotten some good results stacking them over the original image and changing their opacity.

PS Joel, you do lovely work. Your B&W's look great! You prove that just about any tool in the right hands can create wonderful results.



Aug 09, 2013 at 09:35 AM
joelconner
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · VSCO Film 04 is out


Yeah, I actually use Silver Effects Pro 2 every once and a while. It's a killer product. But, VSCO does an amazing job on their basic B&W's too. I think you would actually probably really like it. I never even touch the more faded versions, but I love the more standard ones.


Aug 09, 2013 at 09:40 AM
taemo
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · VSCO Film 04 is out


I love using VSCO 01 and 02 to get that film look without having to spend money and time on developing and scanning. I ignored 03 as I don't shoot Polaroid but since I love shooting slide I had to get 04.

Here's some comparison shots between Film 04 Preset and actual Provia 100f and Velvia 50 as I just realized that I was shooting with X100s and Pentax 6x7 for a while
http://earldieta.blogspot.ca/2013/08/vsco-film-04-vs-slide-film.html



Aug 09, 2013 at 09:54 AM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · VSCO Film 04 is out


taemo wrote:
I love using VSCO 01 and 02 to get that film look without having to spend money and time on developing and scanning. I ignored 03 as I don't shoot Polaroid but since I love shooting slide I had to get 04.

Here's some comparison shots between Film 04 Preset and actual Provia 100f and Velvia 50 as I just realized that I was shooting with X100s and Pentax 6x7 for a while
http://earldieta.blogspot.ca/2013/08/vsco-film-04-vs-slide-film.html

First, nice photos!

Very interesting results. It would have been a really interesting test on the first if you had done a realistic HDR to compress the dynamic range, then applied the filter.

From your results, it looks like they got pretty close with the look.



Aug 09, 2013 at 10:03 AM
eNoBlog
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · VSCO Film 04 is out


cordellwillis wrote:
Why not your wedding work? Style?


These will tend to overcook skin tones (the oopa loompa effect, I believe someone called it in another wedding forum). I got'em for scenics in my wedding stuff and maybe for my landscape/outdoor photography work. As with all presets, the lighting and white balance will probably be the break/make factor as to whether they work or not.



Aug 09, 2013 at 02:00 PM
eNoBlog
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · VSCO Film 04 is out


It seems every time a VSCO thread comes along, some of the same "objections" and "rebuttals" appear. To summarize:

1. Film is film and digital is digital. If you want to be satisfied with VSCO, you'll accept that VSCO gives you an approximation or emulation that may or may not look like the film -- and that whether you accept it matches the film is a highly subjective determination. (Funny how absolute claims that VSCO subjectively matched the film stock can be!)

2. Comparisons against non-preset solutions miss the value of being able to apply a consistent look across large sets of photos en-batch. You can do some wonderful things in Photoshop with SilverEfex (which I also use for my fine art B&W work), but that works best on a 1-by-1 shot basis. Get into large batches of photos, and it's time for a Lightroom + preset solution.

3. Most people who love VSCO didn't just click-and-BOOM! to get what they wanted. They took a VSCO preset and tweaked it to match their desired look. Some did more than tweak. If you think you could do the same on your own without VSCO, great, but mind the next point...

4. Camera profiles are where VSCO really stands out. Ever tried to match the output of a Canon 5D-something to a Nikon D-whatever? Even matching output of cameras from the same manufacturer can give you fits. The solution is to normalize with calibrated Camera profiles. If you think this is trivial, quick-and-easy work, give it a whirl with a color chart and DNG Profile Editor. I did just that, fed my profiles into LR, then tried to derive presets I was happy with. Let me tell you that the time I spent to reach a somewhat disatisfactory outcome more than pays for all 4 VSCO packs.

5. VSCO won't save a bad shot any more than any other PP technique. That's rather obvious to most people around here, I know, but it deserves repetition. Moreover, and perhaps not as appreciated, VSCO presets (just like their film inspirations) will work best when matched against good lighting, specific lighting that works best for that look, and optimized white balance (which results from that lighting). Again, click-and-BOOM! will only work when you're extremely lucky.

6. Finally, I often detect an underlying preconception that VSCO is for those that don't want to work very hard, or who just want the easy way out. As some of the points above illustrate VSCO is rather a tool used purposefully and intelligently to arrive at a desired outcome. If it's not for you, okay. But don't take it out on those who advocate for VSCO precisely because they have put in the elbow grease required to get optimum results.

For me the real value in VSCO is to get away from what I now consider rather bland and pedestrian look that the "standard" camera presets (Nikon for me) give me and to let me match camera output in those situations where I (and/or my teammates) shoot with different camera models and/or brands.



Aug 09, 2013 at 02:32 PM
amonline
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · VSCO Film 04 is out


eNoBlog wrote:
These will tend to overcook skin tones (the oopa loompa effect, I believe someone called it in another wedding forum). I got'em for scenics in my wedding stuff and maybe for my landscape/outdoor photography work. As with all presets, the lighting and white balance will probably be the break/make factor as to whether they work or not.


Exactly the same reason I purchased them... and same reason I won't use them on my "typical" wedding stuff. I will say there are a few very nice B&W's in this batch too.

eNoBlog wrote:
It seems every time a VSCO thread comes along, some of the same "objections" and "rebuttals" appear. To summarize:

1. Film is film and digital is digital. If you want to be satisfied with VSCO, you'll accept that VSCO gives you an approximation or emulation that may or may not look like the film -- and that whether you accept it matches the film is a highly subjective determination. (Funny how absolute claims that VSCO subjectively matched the film stock can be!)

3. Most people who love VSCO didn't just click-and-BOOM! to get what they wanted. They took a VSCO preset and
...Show more

I agree completely. I think it's quite obvious to those of us who have actually shot film at some point that the presets are not "exact" or "accurate". As a matter of fact, I've yet to use one with just one-click. I mainly use their calibration profiles for the color tone only. The rest of the settings are all mine.

eNoBlog wrote:
6. Finally, I often detect an underlying preconception that VSCO is for those that don't want to work very hard, or who just want the easy way out. As some of the points above illustrate VSCO is rather a tool used purposefully and intelligently to arrive at a desired outcome. If it's not for you, okay. But don't take it out on those who advocate for VSCO precisely because they have put in the elbow grease required to get optimum results.

For me the real value in VSCO is to get away from what I now consider rather bland and pedestrian
...Show more

Worth quoting.



Aug 09, 2013 at 03:59 PM
D. Diggler
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · VSCO Film 04 is out


eNoBlog wrote:
the real value in VSCO is to get away from what I now consider rather bland and pedestrian look that the "standard" camera presets give


And the clients are going to start thinking this way, too, after they see all the "filters" currently being layed on in this industry.



Aug 09, 2013 at 04:06 PM
amonline
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · VSCO Film 04 is out


D. Diggler wrote:
And the clients are going to start thinking this way, too, after they see all the "filters" currently being layed on in this industry.


When done right, they don't look like "filters".



Aug 09, 2013 at 04:27 PM
eNoBlog
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · VSCO Film 04 is out


D. Diggler wrote:
And the clients are going to start thinking this way, too, after they see all the "filters" currently being layed on in this industry.


One could switch that phrase 20 years ago by changing "filters" to "film." Walk them from that to the realization that the creative process starts long before one releases the shutter, and the value proposition you seem to be concerned about becomes clearer.

You also make a rather quantum leapish assumption that clients are "in the know" about all these filters and presets.



Aug 09, 2013 at 04:35 PM
eNoBlog
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · VSCO Film 04 is out


amonline wrote:
Exactly the same reason I purchased them... and same reason I won't use them on my "typical" wedding stuff. I will say there are a few very nice B&W's in this batch too.


I'm looking forward to try them out. I've yet to find a B&W preset, VSCO or otherwise that I'm truly happy with for my wedding stuff. I guess I got really picky after really going deep into B&W conversions for my fine art work. In my last couple of weddings I used my own.



Aug 09, 2013 at 04:39 PM
SevenEleven
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · VSCO Film 04 is out


eNoBlog wrote:
It seems every time a VSCO thread comes along, some of the same "objections" and "rebuttals" appear. To summarize:

1. Film is film and digital is digital. If you want to be satisfied with VSCO, you'll accept that VSCO gives you an approximation or emulation that may or may not look like the film -- and that whether you accept it matches the film is a highly subjective determination. (Funny how absolute claims that VSCO subjectively matched the film stock can be!)

2. Comparisons against non-preset solutions miss the value of being able to apply a consistent look across large sets of
...Show more

This is the best summary of VSCO I've seen on any forum. I agree with all of your points, especially 3 & 4 (I've also tried my hand at camera profiles).



Aug 12, 2013 at 01:05 PM
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