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Archive 2013 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 ...
  
 
valgus-photo
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p.1 #1 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


Hello friends,

I am new here..

I want to build Product Photography Studio that have specialize in :

- tiny product (watches, jewelry, machine component, etc..)
- product photo (wine, foodstuff), food photography
- medium to large (furniture, electronic stuff like TV,refrigerator, etc...)
- Home/Office Interiors

I am confused for choosing 2 alternatives as follows :

1. Broncolor Senso A2 kit ( 1 Senso A2, 2 Litos Lamps, 1 Softbox 70x70cm, Bag)
2. Profoto Basic Kit D1 1000/1000 Air ( 2 Profoto D1 1000 Air, Air Remote, Bag)

I want to make freezing photo like water freeze ; powder freeze, etc that use fast flash duration.

Broncolor sounds OK, but with 1200J (symmetrical/Assymetrical) seems can reach high speed flash duration in low Flash Energy, they cost much for me as I must by stands, air remote (Pocket Wizard, etc...)

Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air seems ok as they supplied with Air Remote (reduce my cost) but I must buy stands(manfrotto) and RFI 2x3 softboxes, as they are monolight, so symmetrical/assymetrical function can be done by the as the power is controlled individually per-lamp. The Spec sheets stated that in low Flash Energy, the Flash Duration can be reached up to 1/3500s as in 250 Ws/J.

But I don't have prooven things that convinced me one of those 2 alternatives.

I want to make sharp photos..too

Please help me choosing the better alternative so I make right decision for this

Thank you and best regards



Aug 04, 2013 at 12:16 PM
400d
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p.1 #2 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


According to the spec, Bron: http://bit.ly/14Vp7Tm and Profoto: http://bit.ly/14Vpg9q, the t0.5 @ min-max power:
-Bron: 1/5000s-1/600s (Litos head)
-Profoto: 1/700s-1/1800s (D1 1000 Air)



Aug 04, 2013 at 02:50 PM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #3 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


400d wrote:
According to the spec, Bron: http://bit.ly/14Vp7Tm and Profoto: http://bit.ly/14Vpg9q, the t0.5 @ min-max power:
-Bron: 1/5000s-1/600s (Litos head)
-Profoto: 1/700s-1/1800s (D1 1000 Air)


Thank you for replying,

do that specification tells us that in minimum power the Bron Senso A2 is better flash duration speed than Profoto D1 1000 Air (in the same Flash energy, i.e.200 Ws)




Aug 04, 2013 at 03:14 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #4 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


If you want fast flash durations you want Bron. Profoto have never been kings of that particular department.


Aug 04, 2013 at 03:37 PM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #5 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


Mark_L wrote:
If you want fast flash durations you want Bron. Profoto have never been kings of that particular department.


noted that.
but Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air flash energy is almost twice from Bron Senso A2.

If we looked at the price, especially here in Indonesia, Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air is 30% cheaper than Broncolor Senso A2 (w/Litos Head), also in Profoto package is include Air Remote, this become good "offer" for me, instead of high speed flash duration as mentioned above.

Based on Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air specification...
Could this Profoto produce images like these...



courtesy from weburbanist.com



cortesy from cognags.files.com

Please advise me.

Thank you



Aug 04, 2013 at 03:46 PM
phuang3
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p.1 #6 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


Broncolor is always a better choice for fast action, but you should think about how long your investment will pay off. Bron is very expensive!


Aug 05, 2013 at 10:44 AM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #7 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


phuang3 wrote:
Broncolor is always a better choice for fast action, but you should think about how long your investment will pay off. Bron is very expensive!


Yes, I agree, for the same class, Broncolor price's is higher that their competitor.

because, I am in starting of Product Photography and also thinking about lighting quality, I drop the choice into 2 that systems : Senso A2 and D1/1000/1000, with your opinion, which one can adapt and answer my needs if sometimes I make photographs like samples above (not often).

Thank you



Aug 05, 2013 at 10:49 AM
phuang3
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p.1 #8 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


Luckily, fast action like liquids is usually small in scale. I usually use thyristor flashes like 580EX, Met..etc. These will do just fine, and probably a better choice (with TTL the flash duration could be reached at 1/40000 sec!).


Aug 05, 2013 at 11:01 AM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #9 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


phuang3 wrote:
Luckily, fast action like liquids is usually small in scale. I usually use thyristor flashes like 580EX, Met..etc. These will do just fine, and probably a better choice (with TTL the flash duration could be reached at 1/40000 sec!).


@phuang3 :

Oh ok. I have ever heard about that technic, using Speedlight that has fast Flash Duration but the Flash Energy exactly is not that big as strobe lamp.

Do you know the "specification" of 580EX about Flash Duration ? how much fast it is ?

I plan to use Nikon SB-910, that from the spec is reached up to 1/38.500s..it extremely ok for this experiment.

Do you suggest me using Nikon SB-910 ?

Thank you



Aug 06, 2013 at 03:20 AM
 

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phuang3
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p.1 #10 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


Yes, SB910 is fine for fast action shots. Speaking of 580EX, I don't have the specification at hand, but it's fast enough for liquids unless you're not shooting at full power. Speedlights are at its slowest when they're used at full output. If you still prefer studio strobes, the Einstein 640W from Paul C. Buff could be an option. You can search the forum, there are members using this special strobe.


Aug 06, 2013 at 04:51 AM
dshipley
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p.1 #11 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


My first recommendation is for you to rent (if possible) before you buy. You should also base the power of lights you buy off of what your work requires (... you may find that the 1000ws D1s are too much light for some of the items you want to shoot).

phuang3 wrote:
Yes, SB910 is fine for fast action shots. Speaking of 580EX, I don't have the specification at hand, but it's fast enough for liquids unless you're not shooting at full power. Speedlights are at its slowest when they're used at full output. If you still prefer studio strobes, the Einstein 640W from Paul C. Buff could be an option. You can search the forum, there are members using this special strobe.


I agree, if fast flash duration from studio lights is needed the Einsteins are a very cost effective option (t.1 Action Mode - from 1/588 to 1/13,500, t.1 Color Mode - from 1/588 to 1/8,000 second). However, if the OP is in Indonesia I'm not sure what the cost will be ($500 per unit here in the USA).



Aug 07, 2013 at 04:44 PM
jonathanwilson
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p.1 #12 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


valgus-photo wrote:
...If we looked at the price, especially here in Indonesia, Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air is 30% cheaper than Broncolor Senso A2 (w/Litos Head), also in Profoto package is include Air Remote, this become good "offer" for me, instead of high speed flash duration as mentioned above.



I'm not sure what the available promotions in your area are, but from August - October any Senso kit comes with an additional Octobox and RFS2 Trigger/Remote in most markets. http://www.bron.ch/broncolor/news/promotion/

Something that has always concerned me about the D1 is the recessed flash tube with reflector design. Their literature says its not required for most reflectors, but if I bought D1's I would own at least one of their optional glass domes for versatility. http://www.profoto.com/blog/lighting-tips/a-closer-look-at-the-d1-monoblocs/

On the flipsde I don't like that the Litos heads only work with Senso packs. The packs can take all Bron heads though.

Honestly I feel its somewhat odd to cross shop these 2 setups. They both have quite different pros and cons.

Also if you want the ability to freeze action; I mean actually freeze it (sharp images with no blurring). Choose neither.







Aug 07, 2013 at 11:30 PM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #13 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


@Phuang3 :
Yes, I'll try with SB-910. I know, for some reason, indeed the flash energy is not a big issue. It's interesting idea

For Einstein 640W is not popular here in Indonesia.

There's huge owner of Broncolor dan Profoto here, especially Broncolor, others are China's Brand like Golden Eagle, Visico, etc.

@dshipley :
Yes, I am considering using Profoto D1 1000/1000 for long term use, somewhat my shoots are furniture, interior design, or big Electronics machine/Industrial. I am preparing for that needs.
Because of the price-difference between Profoto D1 1000 and 500 is not far enough, so I decide to choose Profoto D1 1000.

Could you suggest me the official website that can consult and sell Einstein Lighting, especially for Asia/Indonesia?

@jonathanwilson :
The last promotion from here (Prima Imaging) ends last July 2013, I asked for the next promo of Broncolor, there's no new Promos here. Maybe in September,9,2013 there's an attractive promotion because of Broncolor seminar in Bandung, West Java

Do you have suggestion (cheap and capable) for my needs above ?

The flash tube of Litos is exclusively design for Senso ? it's different from mobilite for Mobil L ?




Aug 12, 2013 at 01:12 AM
400d
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p.1 #14 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


On B&H site, it seems the flashtube for Mobilite and MobiLED heads are the same, but not so with the Litos head which is 2400W/s. Ironically the 2400W/s is $228.95 and 1600W/s is $267.9. Iideally the Move 1200 L is better than both the Senso and D1 monolights, the price is mind-boggling though. From my experience, Bron's gear loses at least 30-40% of its MSRP once it's been used. If I were you, I would look into used Grafit A4/A2 and Pulso/Primo heads.

On a different note, if you are doing furniture/industrial shoot in the future, the extra power on the D1 over Senso will be nice to have.



Aug 12, 2013 at 04:58 PM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #15 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


400d wrote:
On B&H site, it seems the flashtube for Mobilite and MobiLED heads are the same, but not so with the Litos head which is 2400W/s. Ironically the 2400W/s is $228.95 and 1600W/s is $267.9. Iideally the Move 1200 L is better than both the Senso and D1 monolights, the price is mind-boggling though. From my experience, Bron's gear loses at least 30-40% of its MSRP once it's been used. If I were you, I would look into used Grafit A4/A2 and Pulso/Primo heads.

On a different note, if you are doing furniture/industrial shoot in the future, the extra power on the
...Show more

thank you for giving me information and alternatives on Broncolor.

Because this is my first lighting equipment and I am going on Pro starting now, I consider that it will be valuable if I spend on new stuff that proper to my needs

Considering low power set on D1 1000, I can going down to D1 250 flash duration speed, so it's covered up with D1 1000. Because freezing moment does not need big flash energy, I think.

Using Grafit A4 is a big leap on specification especially on flash energy and duration, but If I consider 2nd stuff, It can disturb me in the future of my working (there's more risk happens)

===========================================

ok, the other things that makes me think is D1 package, which one must I choose : Basic kit (RFi softboxes (2) I must buy separately) also with Manfrotto 1004BAC (2 pieces for 2 D1 1000) OR......
D1 1000 studio kit, but some of my photographer friends suggest me that for product photography, The umbrella is not used, I must use softboxes..

please share your opinion and why

Thank you



Aug 12, 2013 at 06:10 PM
elkhornsun
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p.1 #16 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


The smaller the flash the easier it is to position it for small items. I use Nikon and Quantum strobes for this reason and because they support wireless TTL with fast ratio adjustments. I use a plastic light tent on a plate of glass on a metal stand and so I can have a strobe on each side and at the back and under the bottom of the item being photographed.

I will have the rear and bottom flash units set so the blow out the bottom and background so they disappear from the picture completely. Then it is a matter of adjusting the left and right flash units based on the look I want and the reflective characteristics of the item I am photographing. This approach works with anything from the size of a pea to the size of a basketball.

With a large reflector I am going to be very limited in where I can position the center of the light source and how to block it with flags where I don't want the light to go (and create shadows I don't want in the picture).

Nikon is perfect in this regard with their camera's with the commander flash built into the camera to provide wireless TTL control over multiple flash units and to create groups so that two or more flash units' output can be adjusted with one setting change in the camera. Nikon also has some great maco flash units that are a third the size of their standard strobes and good for macro level subjects like jewelry or small parts.

I have also found the use of the Cocoon plastic light tents to be a big timesaver. I get the image to where the only post processing needed is a levels adjustment and some sharpening. The plastic diffuses the light and with no fabric there are no seams or wrinkles possible in the pictuers.



Aug 12, 2013 at 11:19 PM
valgus-photo
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p.1 #17 · Which is better for Product Photo : Profoto D1 1000/1000 Air or Broncolor Senso A2 1200J ?


elkhornsun wrote:
The smaller the flash the easier it is to position it for small items. I use Nikon and Quantum strobes for this reason and because they support wireless TTL with fast ratio adjustments. I use a plastic light tent on a plate of glass on a metal stand and so I can have a strobe on each side and at the back and under the bottom of the item being photographed.

I will have the rear and bottom flash units set so the blow out the bottom and background so they disappear from the picture completely. Then it is a
...Show more

Hello,

Thanks for your sharing. Yes, I've been tried to use light tend methods with flash in every side, exclude in the bottom. Yes, it quite works well. But :

- the size of light tend is limited, we can use it if our object always smail to medium (like flower vase, others)
- lighting effect is limited ; in my opinion, because the light from strobe must be directly shoot to light tend

but it's such good option for mobile and less mess of strobe-setting.

Can you give me sample shoot of that setup ?

Thank you



Aug 13, 2013 at 02:50 AM





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