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Archive 2013 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)
  
 
jctriguy
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


cameron12x wrote:
You're right, I should have stated my proposition slightly differently:

IF the 7D is still selling well, why release a new model?

(It is assumed that Canon's R&D is CONSTANTLY working on new models; whether they are released is another question and is up to sales and marketing.)


But that is how every R&D based company works. They are constantly working on new technology. When they have enough new things to add to a model, and the business side makes financial sense to do so, they release a new model. Every company has start-up costs, tooling costs, design costs, etc. It would be crazy to release every new piece of technology all the time. A car company releases a new car model once a year, they are no doubt working on new technology 365 days a year.



Aug 04, 2013 at 05:58 PM
Dave Bachrach
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Personally I think Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does with the D400.

Also why won't Canon give us a "crop or DX mode" like Nikon does? This would probably move a lot 7D users to a 5DMK3, if it had a faster frame rate and larger buffer. Which they could probably do through a firmware upgrade.

Regarding a 7DII, I can live with the current frame rate, just give me better IQ and high iso performance above 800 with better weather sealing like a NIkon D600 or D800.

Updated AF would be nice if they could keep the price between $1600-$1800. Bring the video features and specs over from the 70D no additional R&D investment needed.

Release the new 100-400 version II to attach to the 7Dll. That combo would be a big seller.



Edited on Aug 04, 2013 at 07:18 PM · View previous versions



Aug 04, 2013 at 06:59 PM
AaronNegro
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Today I went out with my children and the 5DIII+70-200 2.8...The gear was a liability.

Whatever Canon does to increase IQ+AF+DR, etc.

I want to see the 7D smaller and a smaller APS-C version of the 70-200 so instead of carrying 2.5kg I go with some 1.2Kg in total with smaller footprint.

Of course many will disagree with that, but it's just me

And I also do not want to compromise in AF.



Aug 04, 2013 at 07:13 PM
IndyFab
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Dave Bachrach wrote:
Personally I think Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does with the D400.

Also why won't Canon give us a "crop or DX mode" like Nikon does? This would probably move a lot 7D users to a 5DMK3, if it had a faster frame rate and larger buffer. Which they could probably do through a firmware upgrade.

Regarding a 7DII, I can live with the current frame rate, just give me better IQ and high iso performance above 800 with better weather sealing like a NIkon D600 or D800.

Updated AF would be nice if they could keep the price between
...Show more

Yepp, a 7DII crop for that xtra reach, for those who can't afford the big tellies, with all the goodies of the 5DIII FF, but with better frame rate, Wifi and GPS

The 100-400 II would be the icing on the cake to mate upto it.



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:02 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


sirimiri wrote:
I'm going through some of my "RAW" files, shot with pretty much any digital camera I've owned in the past four years.

What stands out most: shitty shots are shitty shots, but the hot ones...are scintillating.

Gear has little if anything to do with it.


Yes, true, but all the same I can also see shots of mine where more DR would have made them better and when looking over sports shots plenty of shitty shots that would've been good ones if the focus hadn't missed (and in some cases the missed focus simply is the difference between which gear was used).


Edited on Aug 04, 2013 at 08:14 PM · View previous versions



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:10 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


lowbone wrote:
I think Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does or doesn't do with the D300, D300s. The D300 is what made the 7D happen in the first place.


And I've read that Nikon is doing the same (not joking actually). Thus the 2013 then 2014 then 2015 then 2016.... expected arrival date for the D400 and 7D2. (joking, but there could be a bit of truth to it)



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:12 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


EB-1 wrote:
I'm not sure how good Canon's intelligence is, but if any company waits until others have far superior products it is often too late and takes years to catch up.

EBH


WHich is why one company rarely stays on top forever, the ones that reach the top tend to start doing what you say, just waiting and milking and no longer pushing forward, in time they usually end up falling off the peak.



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:13 PM
cameron12x
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Imagemaster wrote:
You, and me, and thousands of others.


Add me to the list as well. We need to motivate Canon more!!!



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:36 PM
cameron12x
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


jctriguy wrote:
But that is how every R&D based company works. They are constantly working on new technology. When they have enough new things to add to a model, and the business side makes financial sense to do so, they release a new model. Every company has start-up costs, tooling costs, design costs, etc. It would be crazy to release every new piece of technology all the time. A car company releases a new car model once a year, they are no doubt working on new technology 365 days a year.


I'm not sure, but I think we're saying the same thing?



Aug 04, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Dave Bachrach
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)



What Does the Canon 70D Mean? (commentary) By Thom Hogan a Nikon guy....
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/what-does-the-canon-70d.html


The 70D competes with the D7100. Where are the high-spec crop sensor DSLRs? Canon's 7D dates to 2009, Nikon's D300s really dates to 2007, as the update really didn't change much of consequence, and certainly not image quality. It's as if Canon and Nikon conspired together to try to get as many of the crop-sensor using pros and enthusiasts into full frame as possible while ignoring customers that can't afford or don't want the bigger, heavier systems.

Four years is a long time in digital. It's like dog years: multiply by 7 or so. Moreover, Nikon has been behind in sensor specs for those four years (the 7D is 18mp, the D300s, 12mp). Good thing these are good cameras that hold up well to abuse. Because a lot of folk are still shooting with them, hoping upon hope that Canon and Nikon will give them upgraded versions some day with newer sensor technology.

Meanwhile, the D7100 and now 70D are sneaking up with features and performance on their older, professional brothers, and beating them with better sensors. Let me say this as kindly as I can: the camera makers are idiots if they don't cater to the existing 7D and D300/D300s users with new cameras soon. They've already considerably upset that group. Now they're beginning to torture them. When the year is done and no D400 or 8D appears, the camera makers only have to look to themselves to wonder why their margins and sales are down: they didn't deliver to a core constituency. Sure, that constituency is smaller than the fickle consumer crop DSLR crowd, but it's bigger than the FX/full frame crowd, and just as loyal. Moreover, the margins are darned good. Nikon could make a better GPM on a US$1700 D400 than they are on the US$2100 D600 I'll bet. Considerably more.

August is when the next camera roll-out window starts. Let's hope that the D400 is being positioned in that window.



Aug 04, 2013 at 11:05 PM
 

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Stpix
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


StillFingerz wrote:
'VIDEO'

Did Canon not make themselves clear as they repackaged their 18mb sensor with better and different AF configurations, with badder, better, bigger LCD screens, adding more audio as well, 'Touch' as well...it's beta testing, get it, give the masses what they crave, new toys.

As for us 'STILLS' shooters, we are a newly dying breed, the new dinosours, the viewfinder we were suckled on has not gotten better, will not except for on high-end models...for a while Other than 'REAL' photographers and lovers of the still image as 'ART', those that understand light, depth of field, etc. 'NO ONE CARES'.

The rest
...Show more

Nothing new here. 40 years ago Kodak sold a lot more Instamatics than Canon and Nikon sold A1's and F2's.

I don't see the problem. The 7d never was a popular "consumer" camera it was targeted at a very small group of serious amatuers and pros. The 7d2 will be the same.



Aug 04, 2013 at 11:09 PM
laytonp
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Although the 7D replacement money is burning a hole in my pocket. I refuse to spend it foolishly, till the right one comes along. I will not spend it in mediocrity.


Aug 04, 2013 at 11:11 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


jctriguy wrote:
To me, it makes sense that they will use the same or similar sensor as the 70D.


Unless the 70D sensor is much better than the current 18MP versions and there has been no such indication, then it makes no sense at all for me to see the flagship crop camera continue on with dated sensor technology, 5 years after the original 7D launched if these rumours are true. By then we will probably see new Sony sensor tech, further widening the chasm in DR and low ISO noise. At worst they need to release a 7D II by January lest it run the risk of fading into obscurity.



Aug 04, 2013 at 11:14 PM
EB-1
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


Most likely Canon will discontinue the 7D by next year anyway. I'm surprised it was not abandonded already, but I think Canon was waiting for the 70D.

EBH



Aug 04, 2013 at 11:22 PM
LCPete
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


EB-1 wrote:
Most likely Canon will discontinue the 7D by next year anyway. I'm surprised it was not abandonded already, but I think Canon was waiting for the 70D.

EBH

Hopefully that won't happen the 7D is a really good camera that still sells well
I would have thought though that they wil keep making it until it's replacement is ready



Aug 05, 2013 at 08:19 AM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


The interesting thing to me, with regard to these rumor-based angst-y threads, is the high anxiety of a few members for niche products or specifications.

Obviously, nearly everyone would be interested in a pro-grade APS-C body, especially sold for a consumer price. That seems to be the implied promise of the 7D when extrapolated into a "series". But even a 7D series is speculation at this time, even if it eventually comes to reality.

For real energetic entertainment of this type of gut-wrentching rumor mongering, we should all follow the threads regarding the desire for D400 over on the Nikon forum! Man, if whining could develop and release products, we'd be on D400 Mark IV by now!

Just for the record, I'd be as interested as anyone in a 24MP+ replacement of the 7D. But I'm not holding my breath. To paraphrase Greg (sirimiri), the crop body I have (60D) is adequate to my needs for the time being.



Aug 05, 2013 at 02:42 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


If Canon were to do nothing except upgrade the sensor in the 7D for the 7D II- that would be enough.

It'd just be silly for them to not support the other features that they've introduced- in particular, the 7D II should have GPS over WiFi, if it doesn't have both.

Other than that? Not much, really. We don't need more resolution in a crop body; if anything, 18MP-20MP is fine, especially given how well the 700D is performing resolution wise with a current spin of the 18MP sensor and accompanying anti-aliasing filter, processor, and firmware.

Other nice-to-haves would be dual card slots with a faster controller, particularly for SD cards, a faster frame-rate, and a quieter shutter along with a true high-speed quiet shutter mode. Would love to have a 7D that could shoot 6FPS with a shutter that's as quiet as my 6D in silent shutter mode!



Aug 05, 2013 at 04:48 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


johnctharp wrote:
If Canon were to do nothing except upgrade the sensor in the 7D for the 7D II- that would be enough.

It'd just be silly for them to not support the other features that they've introduced- in particular, the 7D II should have GPS over WiFi, if it doesn't have both.

Other than that? Not much, really. We don't need more resolution in a crop body; if anything, 18MP-20MP is fine, especially given how well the 700D is performing resolution wise with a current spin of the 18MP sensor and accompanying anti-aliasing filter, processor, and firmware.

Other nice-to-haves would be dual card
...Show more

You forgot the big one.... AF!

Don't forget the camera also needs to sell for another four years not just four months too.

Anyway things that certainly could be improved:

As you did mention all the sensor stuff, the low ISO DR is pretty far out of date. While the high ISO on it is pretty good for APS-C, if they used 1DX/6D tech in it it could pick up an admittedly minor maybe a trace more than 1/3 stop SNR and a more noticeable 1+ stops of DR at high ISO. Most copies tend to suffer from varying degrees of vertical gain banding and it has a heavily green split CFA so debayer makes it a bit softer per pixel than it otherwise would need be.

But also:

The AF while it is faster and has more points than the xxD line and can be a bit more precise is still very clearly not to to 5 or 1 series level precision and the tracking, other than seemingly for surfing, is a far cry from 5 or 1 series IMO, especially for stuff like soccer and football where it seems to be a lot closer to the old xxD levels than 5 or 1 series levels. And yet this is supposed to be a body focusing on AF and action so it really could use their top level AF and not a souped up but clearly based on low tier AF.

The dual-phase AF thing would be neat.

Add the little UI tweaks of the 5D3 such as instant 100% review, auto-updating C1-C3, etc.

The movie mode is pretty poor by current standards, aliasing, moire, very soft, low DR, poor SNR, poor usability features. Now ML does get around some of the usability and ML RAW might get around the softness and some of the poor DR and a tiny bit if the poor SNR, but it won't fix the aliasing and moire. So for those wanting to use a 7 series for movies it could be improved a lot.

Going 8 to 10-12fps could help a little bit in that you might go from a near two guaranteed key frames per action sequence to neat two guaranteed ideal key frames per action sequence (and at times you might get a third at 12fps) and since AF does miss at times and what not it gives more chance that at least one key frame is in perfect focus (you hope).




Aug 05, 2013 at 07:17 PM
mogud
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


While the 7D replacement intrigues me, it certainly is not an absolute as far as upgrading is concerned. If I need high ISO performance and stellar performance, then I grab the 1Dx. If I require a cropped sensor, my first choice is the 1D IV and not the 7D.

The 7D II will have to be something pretty special for me to spend the money. The "pretty special" for the king of the crops won't happen at <$2000.



Aug 05, 2013 at 07:36 PM
aladyforty
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · 7D2 late 2014 now? (despite re-using 70D sensor?)


mogud wrote:
While the 7D replacement intrigues me, it certainly is not an absolute as far as upgrading is concerned. If I need high ISO performance and stellar performance, then I grab the 1Dx. If I require a cropped sensor, my first choice is the 1D IV and not the 7D.

The 7D II will have to be something pretty special for me to spend the money. The "pretty special" for the king of the crops won't happen at <$2000.



well it does intrigue me, chances are many people will never afford a 1DX...a 1D4 does not always have the reach needed unless you have a lot of lens...for many the choice is only the 7D and a 400 lens. While the 7D does a stellar job it has its downfalls and I for one would love to see some change to the image quality at least on the next one. If 7DII comes out and looks great, Im willing to pay 2000 to 2300. 1DX sounds great but way out of my price range and then Id have to buy a much more expensive lens



Aug 05, 2013 at 11:50 PM
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