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Archive 2013 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles

  
 
billsnature
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


I have spent so much time on camera equipment, that I think I have become an out of date idiot on the basic set up of Photoshop.

I shoot exclusively in RAW, I use ARC for conversion, and I print on Epson 2880 using PS to control color and Epson color management off. Put some stuff on pbase also.

I can't quite get the color accuracy and tone curves from my Nikon equipment that I used to get from my Canon stuff.

Can anyone direct me to a basic set up guide (e.g.Adobe RGB vs sRGB) and whether to use camera profile or Adobe RGB profile in ARC tabs?

Most guides tend to focus on layers and significant editing while I am struggling on getting basic color and tone curves correct.

I am struggle most with the advanatges/disadvantages of sRGB versus Adobe RGB.

Thanks
Bill



Jul 28, 2013 at 02:12 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


This type of question is one of most common types of digital color questions that come up. I would advise you to pick up one of the many books on Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) and Photoshop color management in general. There are also good tutorials on lynda.com, depending on how you tend to absorb information best. For now, the best advice for anyone struggling with understanding the ins and outs of color management and different color spaces is to stick with sRGB for everything until you understand why and when you might want to use something else. Don't get caught up in all the inane arguments for preserving everything your camera or the scene can capture. Stay with the lowest common denominator and simplest workflow for the time being. You'll have plenty of time to experiment down the road later on.


Jul 28, 2013 at 05:49 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


Peter Figen wrote:
This type of question is one of most common types of digital color questions that come up. I would advise you to pick up one of the many books on Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) and Photoshop color management in general. There are also good tutorials on lynda.com, depending on how you tend to absorb information best. For now, the best advice for anyone struggling with understanding the ins and outs of color management and different color spaces is to stick with sRGB for everything until you understand why and when you might want to use something else. Don't get
...Show more
I can’t but tottaly disagree.

Brian A



Jul 28, 2013 at 11:38 PM
Bodzio
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


+1


Jul 29, 2013 at 08:43 AM
mshi
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


Peter Figen wrote:
the best advice for anyone struggling with understanding the ins and outs of color management and different color spaces is to stick with sRGB for everything until you understand why and when you might want to use something else. Don't get caught up in all the inane arguments for preserving everything your camera or the scene can capture. Stay with the lowest common denominator and simplest workflow for the time being. You'll have plenty of time to experiment down the road later on.


+1.

i do understand newbies/wannabes' desires to use the widest gamut.



Jul 29, 2013 at 12:16 PM
billsnature
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


Thank you for the advice and resource tips.

At simplest level:

1) Keep all work flow at sRGB if prepping for web use.

2) Consider wider color space for printing if and only if you can figure out how to do that without goofing up the conversion.



Jul 29, 2013 at 10:29 PM
ChoskyStudios
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


billsnature wrote:
Thank you for the advice and resource tips.

At simplest level:

1) Keep all work flow at sRGB if prepping for web use.

2) Consider wider color space for printing if and only if you can figure out how to do that without goofing up the conversion.



You seem to already have a solid plan started. If you shoot in a camera raw format, this will permit you the option of using whichever color space you deem necessary for your current work, and to still convert that camera raw file to another color space in the future if you feel the need. As with most creative forms of expression, attaining satisfactory results is what matters most. Of course, that topic is a highly subjective one which only you can decide for yourself.

If you want to broaden your understanding of color spaces, YouTube can often be a helpful source. Just remember, to take any advice you get on subjective creativity with a grain of salt.


- Al



Jul 30, 2013 at 01:18 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


If you open up a file ... any file, any space ... in PS, then go to the bottom of the list and find:

Edit>Assign Profile
Edit>Convert To Profile


For practice/education/reference ... take the file and using just Assign Profile ... change the profile from sRGB to aRGB to ProPhotoRGB to CIERGB to Apple RGB and back again to any of the RGB's of choice. What you'll find is that the numeric value of a given pixel doesn't change, but how the monitor (device) chooses to display that given pixels does, relative to color.

It's kinda like playing the game of "Mother, may I". You can ask to take 10 steps, but you have to specify baby steps vs.regular steps vs. giant steps. You assign the number of steps @ 0-255 and depending on how large of steps (sRGB vs. aRGB vs. ProPhotoRGB) you choose will determine "how far out there" your color goes. Take 10 sRGB steps and you don't go as far as taking 10 aRGB steps, as the steps are a bit closer together.

Another way of thinking about it is a yardstick vs. a meter. Go to the number 32 on each and you wind up in a different place, with 32 centimeters being not nearly as far as 32 inches. Conversely, go to the number 87 and you wind up off the chart, over the edge, out of gamut, i.e. too far for the yardstick.

After you play with the Assign Profile a while and get a feel for just how much the different profiles play with a different size stick @ 0-255, then move on to playing with Convert Profile.

You'll find that you can use Convert Profile to interchangeable move from one color space to another without having radically significant changes. This is not to suggest that there aren't some issues @ clipping in certain situations, but to hopefully help you realize that you can move into and out of color spaces such that you aren't making a life changing decision by working in one color space vs. the other. BTW, before the bashing begins ... yes, it is preferable to not be converting back and forth for optimal output, but this is for the primary purpose of understanding the differences, not establishing the most technically ideal workflow.

Personally, I shoot RAW + jpg, so when I open RAW I'm in the ProPhoto Color space and when I open my jpg's I'm in sRGB. Whether I process from the ProPhoto or sRGB doesn't change the way I process my image in PS ... I still process the colors to where I want them. I just make sure to convert to sRGB for web usage prior to saving that which I'm going to post online (i.e. sRGB world) ... or to the profile that a printer may use.

Sometimes, I'll take an sRGB and assign it to aRGB and my colors change to the larger color space (baby steps to regular steps) and they get "out there" a little farther, then I might pull them back just a touch via desat. Sometimes I find this preferable than pushing them in sRGB.

The point here is this ... 0-255 are the notes that we get to play with. Pick up a violin and play the scale, it has one sound... play the same scale on a viola or cello and you get a different sound. Using a different color space is like using a different instrument to play the scale. The farther from "middle C" you go, the more salient the difference in size of the instrument makes to render a different sound.

This isn't meant to tell you how you should approach your color space, but to hopefully give you a better understanding of the differences regarding color space, so that you don't feel it to be such a daunting/overwhelming issue. Kinda like the exercise of lighting a sphere, pyramid and cube ... it is to help develop an understanding ... then you can make you own determinations @ application according to your preferences.

So to coincide with Peter ... for now, grab a violin and start playing the fiddle. If you find that you need a viola or cello, you can always change to that later.

HTH, GL



Jul 30, 2013 at 09:16 AM
billsnature
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


Thanks Rusty,

That makes it all pretty clear.

Thanks to all for your help and references.

Bill



Jul 30, 2013 at 07:58 PM
Hendrik
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/85/January%202005%20-%20ProPhoto%20or%20ConPhoto

A good article and worth to read.



Aug 08, 2013 at 04:42 AM
Mirek Elsner
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Photoshop basics guide - color and profiles


Consider picking up a copy of The Digital Print by Jeff Schewe. There are other books that explain color management and profiles, but this one is specialized in printing and covers the subject end to end.


Aug 15, 2013 at 07:09 PM





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